passing sugar

[cjf12]

Bad timing here. Flow started and i got what we thought was the flu. Turns out i got some mystery virus with viral bronchitis. Been down since friday. Wife is doing her best to keep up. Normal small farm chores nursing myself and 6 out of seven kids and all the sap on top of it. Shes amazing. All while i lay here sipping narcotic cough syrup.
She just noticed we were passing sugar into permeate. Is this because we didnt rinse it out soon enough? Does this happen no matter what at some point? I juat told her to shut it down and ill wash the membrane when i can.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Is this the first time this season running the RO? All it takes is a valve that looks closed.

[cjf12]

Not the first time for the ro but first time for the wife to run it. Mine is so simple in construction there really is not much to screw up. My question i guess is this. Once the membrane gets fouled up enough with debris and sugars wouldnt it almost have to start passing sugars? Is there a point where you just need to periodically stop and rinse as a maintenance thing even while roing? I have 1 mes 4040 and it was after she ran 650 gal through it bumping it from 2% to a little above 4.5%. Wondering if that was to much before it should have been rinsed even though she processed 450 down to 4% then the other 200 raw and then all together upto 4.5%. The raw 200 would have acted sort of like a cleaning.

Hope i make sense in my wording tonight. Apologies if its unclear.

[cjf12]

Should add that the only reason we caught it was i texted her and asked what her gpm in permeate was. At 200 psi it was 1.05 which the most i got out of it the other 2 two times i ran it was about .83 gpm of permeate at 200 psi. Figured at that difference something was out of whack. So even if the membrane was fouled. Why would it pass MORE through the permeate side?

[Haynes Forest Products]

Not all ROs are the same and have different options. Yes they need to be cleaned and rinsed as much as possible. Like any filter if its dirty and clogged something has to give. Could the cup seal have failed??

[Russell Lampron]

Should add that the only reason we caught it was i texted her and asked what her gpm in permeate was. At 200 psi it was 1.05 which the most i got out of it the other 2 two times i ran it was about .83 gpm of permeate at 200 psi. Figured at that difference something was out of whack. So even if the membrane was fouled. Why would it pass MORE through the permeate side?

Did actually measure sugar in the permeate or are you just assuming that it is because of the flow reading? Sap will process faster or slower with changes in the temperature. Cold sap processes slower than warm sap. The flow difference could be because of the temperature of the sap.

Cleaning the membrane won't stop it from passing sugar.

[cjf12]

We checked it straight out of the ro. 1%

Hopeing to feel well enough soon to go check it out. Hopefully a seal got pushed out of place. What else should i be looking for when i get there?
When you get a new membrane do seals come with? Where do you all get replacement seals?
Thanks guys

[Clinkis]

Sounds like a failed seal. Like Russ said a fouled membrane shouldn’t pass sugar. In fact it should do the opposite and make it even harder to pass sugar. MES membranes should process sap north on 10% without any issues. Probably higher.

[cjf12]

What do you guys feel 1 pass should take it up to from 2% sap? The membrane was pretty mishandled when we got it and i feel i have no great baseline to start at. Contemplating just ordering a new one just so i have a reference.

[maple flats]

What pressure does it run at? The operating pressure has everything to do with how much permeate you can remove in a single pass. The higher the pressure the more permeate is forced out. With 37F sap mine removes 3 parts permeate to 1 part concentrate at about 275 PSI, with the same pressure if the sap is way up to 45 degrees that floe goes up, and the removal climbs slightly.

[cjf12]

Its a single post. Fresh sap off the trailer i would bump it up to 250. When i started to recirculate i would kick back to 200 and keep it there till i got to where i was content to boil and let it run at that while boiling.
Normally was removing 1.15 gpm at 250 and .83 or so at 200 which would slowly crepe down as it ran.

[maple flats]

That sounds about right for a single post 4x40. i think the seal is bad. It's either damaged or out of position or wrong side up. The open side of the U shape should face the membrane so when pressurized it is forced against the membrane on the inside and against the housing on the outside of the seal,

[cjf12]

Any thoughts on where to get replacement seals? Thanks for the help.

[wiam]

Most maple suppliers would have them. Or membrane dealers. Good item to self stock if you rely heavily on your ro.