Bender 1800 not cycling

[mudr]

Just got back from the woods. I was hoping for much more sap than was there. Was my first run on vacuum, but there was only "gravity" levels of sap, if not less. I fired the pump back up (had run out of gas) and watched it run.

Some specs- bender 1800 releaser (big bowl), two flapper check valves on the bottom, gast 1550 running 15-16 inches (measured at the end of the mainline).

The bowl fills, trips the float, and starts to dump. The dump is slow, and most of the time when I was watching it the dump would get hung midway through the cycle. Jar half full, no sap running out of releaser, but no sap running in. Just sitting there. Any thoughts? Is this a weight issue?

On top of all this, my pump-out line came unhooked from my trailer and I lost basically all my (measly quantity of) sap. Yay!

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[markcasper]

Just got back from the woods. I was hoping for much more sap than was there. Was my first run on vacuum, but there was only "gravity" levels of sap, if not less. I fired the pump back up (had run out of gas) and watched it run.

Some specs- bender 1800 releaser (big bowl), two flapper check valves on the bottom, gast 1550 running 15-16 inches (measured at the end of the mainline).

The bowl fills, trips the float, and starts to dump. The dump is slow, and most of the time when I was watching it the dump would get hung midway through the cycle. Jar half full, no sap running out of releaser, but no sap running in. Just sitting there. Any thoughts? Is this a weight issue?

On top of all this, my pump-out line came unhooked from my trailer and I lost basically all my (measly quantity of) sap. Yay!

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do you have a checkvalve on the sap line coming in?? that would be number 1. not sure why you'd need 2 checkvalves on outbound? your gaskets may be leaking air top and bottom causing it to act the way you describe. need to add a small amount of weight on that stem as well.

[mudr]

The two check valves on the bottom are for in/out lines, so yes I have one on the sap in line. And they flow/point the same direction.

I'm thinking about changing my sap out line. Currently a 6 ft piece of 3/4. I'm going to up it to a shorter piece of 1 inch. Maybe it needs to flow better? It cycled great in testing in my garage, but it just dumped out of the check valve. Maybe the added hose is adding some flow restriction.

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[WESTMAPLES]

are the check valves flapper or ball style valves , hopefully not springloaded ?? does the stainless top hat on yours have a side port nipple on it ?? . my benders are setup so that the sap comes in thru a flapper check valve into the releaser thru the side nipple on the top hat and the bottom port on the glass jar is nothing more than a dump with a 1 1/4 flapper cv . im running mine at 25-26 in so i doubled the shaft weight for smooth cycling, i put the top weight above the top clip on the center shaft and the rest right on top of the float itself, so when it dumps the float comes down with enough weight to reset it. so i get fast dumps and reliable resets allday everyday

[mudr]

They are the basic flappers, no spring. I do have the side port on top. See pic.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180216/86f68b5a21b9d40abe650f478d873aee.jpg

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[markcasper]

They are the basic flappers, no spring. I do have the side port on top. See pic.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180216/86f68b5a21b9d40abe650f478d873aee.jpg

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The gaskets top and bottom should be checked, there is a good chance they are leaking air into the jar, if this happens, it won't function well. Get the vaseline out then.....I had the same fish bowl one at one time and it was a PITA. I know you have to work with what you have, but the photo of that thing just made me mad. I was so glad to get rid of it, think its laying in the scrap pile somplace. The cylinder style(tall, narrow) benders worked much better though.

Note:I always rigged mine up to have the sap come in at the top port.

[WESTMAPLES]

They are the basic flappers, no spring. I do have the side port on top. See pic.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180216/86f68b5a21b9d40abe650f478d873aee.jpg

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk looks like there is to much restriction with the bottom in/ out area the thing i forgot to add is that my setups use the top port but i also have a Tee with a cv off to the side in the mainline before the IN cv to the bender , that way when the pump goes off the sap still has a easy path to the tank in a gravity style way and so the releaser can fully drain so no frozen sap in it upon start up

[mudr]

Seems like the consensus is that I should use the top port. I had seen a lot of conflicting suggestions in old threads, seemed like most suggested the bottom entry. I will change it up, as well as changing the exit from 3/1 to 1 inch pipe.

Anyone ever run the exit/dump check valve vertically? Would it dump faster? Will the vacuum still close it up?

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[markcasper]

Seems like the consensus is that I should use the top port. I had seen a lot of conflicting suggestions in old threads, seemed like most suggested the bottom entry. I will change it up, as well as changing the exit from 3/1 to 1 inch pipe.

Anyone ever run the exit/dump check valve vertically? Would it dump faster? Will the vacuum still close it up?

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You should just have a straight piece of 7/8" milkhose coming off that bottom port with a checkvalve in that 7/8" piece somwhere. take all of the other fittings out when the sap will be coming in the top port.

[Paddymountain]

Seems to me I ran mine dumping straight out the bottom , I'll try to find a picture of it

[Bricklayer]

I played around with a bender this fall in my garage. Pulled my hair out try My to get it to work. Very finicky units. But so simple.
the first problem I had was the check valves. I used similar ones as you. On the dump side it would dump the best if I had the hinge of the check valve facing up so gravity helps it close if need be.
Then I had a leak in the jar top. Used food Grease and slathered it up. Fixed that problem. Then I got it going finally.
Cranked up the vacuum and it wouldn't dump again. So I added weights. Took a while to get it to go. But I finally found the proper weight.
Then I took it apart to screw it on the wood frame and after putting it back together it wouldn't dump again. So I put it away for weeks. Went back to it and I figured that I screwed the top threaded piece on to tight. And it didn't allow enough of a vent to get it to break the seal.
So it worked perfect after that.
Screw just tight enough to hold it there. Just enough to hold the top hat on.
Try it. It might be the problem.

[mudr]

Ahhh. I like it bricklayer, simple. I did tighten it pretty good in the woods. I don't recall how tight it was in the garage. I may try that first. It does not require some reconfiguring, and it worked great set up like this in the garage. Plus my woods are elevationally-challanged. I don't know what moving to the top port would do to me elevation wise.

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[WESTMAPLES]

run oversized cv straight down from the bottom port for fastest dumping , and dont worry that your woods are elevationally-challanged, mine are all low slope mainlines too that come in at the top of the tote tank height like a gravity system and then T`s off to get sucked straight up thru the cv into the top port with minimal restrictions, i also have a small pump but 95 gals of stored vacuum to keep pulling with no dropoff when cycling. i also bought benders to start out my vacuum adventures, and im still running them 4 seasons later with great results for the money invested. don`t let it get you down , before you know it youll be a bender expert and looking to buy another one to hook up in another sugar bush.

[Bricklayer]

Mine unfortunately doesn't have the nipple on the top part to do that but it makes sense.
I ended up getting a smoking deal on a couple year old lapierre releaser so I'm using that instead. But I had the bender working under 20" and it cycled fine. They do work. And are really neat to watch also.

[Paddymountain]

Search interesting bender set-up post I started about 2 years ago. Look at the second picture, without the additional pipe on the bottom
it didn't dump correctly HTH!

[mudr]

Just got in. Brought sap in through side port on hat, changed out line to 1 inch from 3/4. Fired up pump, checked vac at end of 250 ft main. Was reading 19 inch. Very good.

Hooked a drop to a saddle to pull water from a bucket (all lines froze). Water came in. Eventually tripped, then half dump. After that things slowed down, including volume of water coming in.

I messed with it a bit. Pulled things apart. Eventually I noticed that the orifice at the top was pretty iced over. Cleaned that out, put together. Fired up. Same thing again. Pulled water great, half dump. At that point, no sap was coming in or out. Just sitting. Checked vac, down to zero. No leaks. Pulled vac line from the top, jar dumped. I blew in (to clear ice), hooked vac up. Water comes in.


Question 1- can my problem be traced back to icing over?

Question 2- do I have the rod set up right? From the bottom: hair pin, sliding float, hair pin, weight, then 6 inches or so, small o-ring in a grove, and then the metal slider component thing on top.

When the float rises, it first slides, then hits the hair pin (with weight on it), then rod slides up, and then the o-ring eventually contacts the slider mechanism on top. Right? Pic below.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/ac9d464f080e541695cf0bf4f89ca8b1.jpg

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[markcasper]

Just got in. Brought sap in through side port on hat, changed out line to 1 inch from 3/4. Fired up pump, checked vac at end of 250 ft main. Was reading 19 inch. Very good.

Hooked a drop to a saddle to pull water from a bucket (all lines froze). Water came in. Eventually tripped, then half dump. After that things slowed down, including volume of water coming in.

I messed with it a bit. Pulled things apart. Eventually I noticed that the orifice at the top was pretty iced over. Cleaned that out, put together. Fired up. Same thing again. Pulled water great, half dump. At that point, no sap was coming in or out. Just sitting. Checked vac, down to zero. No leaks. Pulled vac line from the top, jar dumped. I blew in (to clear ice), hooked vac up. Water comes in.


Question 1- can my problem be traced back to icing over?

Question 2- do I have the rod set up right? From the bottom: hair pin, sliding float, hair pin, weight, then 6 inches or so, small o-ring in a grove, and then the metal slider component thing on top.

When the float rises, it first slides, then hits the hair pin (with weight on it), then rod slides up, and then the o-ring eventually contacts the slider mechanism on top. Right? Pic below.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180217/ac9d464f080e541695cf0bf4f89ca8b1.jpg

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When I used them, had alot of issues of the vacuum port freezing up, even at air temps of 40. Depended on how much moisture was in the air. When you put a torch on it for 30 seconds, worked like a charm......for awhile. The foggy nights with a temp of 34 were the worst.

[mudr]

Success! I noticed the dump check valve was leaking quite a bit of air around the gasket yesterday. Lots of bubbles coming up into the jar. I switched the two valves, figured a slight leak on the line in would not be too problematic.

Put it all together (again, sap coming in from top) and fired it up. Cycled great for 15 cycles or so. Watched for 25-30. No failures.

I will get rid of that bad CV soon, but for now it works on the sap in line.

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[WESTMAPLES]

hey mudr great to hear you finally have success with your bender , now you can focus on other things