Lapierre Vertical Electric Releaser Float String [Archive]

Amber Gold

02-13-2018, 01:50 PM

I have a 3' tall Lapierre electric releaser with the float switch and floats setup. Twice now, the float string has broken on me where it wraps around the float switch. Fortunately I had a spare line, so I'm all set for now. Is there an alternative to the line that Lapierre uses that's more durable? It reminds me of fishing line.

Thanks

S.S.S

02-13-2018, 07:28 PM

how old is this unit?

heus

02-13-2018, 07:34 PM

I agree that it is a poor design. I have burned the seals up on two goulds pumps because a chipmunk has gotten into my pump house and chewed the line in half, tripping the pump switch. It was also my fault for not turning off the breaker. Both times were at the end of the season before cleanup.The Bernard electric releaser, that is almost identical, uses a rod with its float system.

PARKER MAPLE

02-14-2018, 05:15 AM

I had same problem, and replaced it several time. Finally went with a high/low switch for a sump pump. It's been working flawlessly ever sence. One prob on the bottom to shut pump off and one on top turns it on.

Amber Gold

02-14-2018, 10:02 PM

The unit is maybe four years old.

Parker, do you have more info on what you used to wire it? Maybe I'll do the same.

Thanks guys.

NH Maplemaker

02-14-2018, 11:06 PM

Josh, a couple of seasons back my releaser string failed like yours and I replaced it with a good quality fly fishing line and it has been fine ever since !

S.S.S

02-18-2018, 02:09 PM

The new releasers use a rod that goes through cover then string is attached to rod. They where having issues with ice forming around hole in cover where line went through. This new design is suppose to fix that issue. We just sold our releaser but never had issue with string breaking, only freezing around hole and float not working right cause string was froze.

PARKER MAPLE

02-18-2018, 06:17 PM

Go to Amazon and search for hc6100 hi-lo pump switch. What it is, is a dual prob. You drill a hole and cement the lower prob in bottom where the switch senses the sap, then you drill a hole and cement the upper prob where you want the pump to start and pump out the releaser. So the sap hits the bottom prob, rises until it hit top prob turns pump on, pump runs until sap goes down to bottom prob then pump shuts off. I have had this for 5-6yrs and has never failed me.

Amber Gold

02-20-2018, 01:51 PM

I thought about something like this before, but wasn't sure where to find it. Thanks Parker.

Will it operate a 220V pump? If it can handle it, I can wire the plug for 220V, and plug this into it, and the plug the pump into the controller.

NH Maplemaker

02-27-2018, 08:34 AM

Shaun

03-10-2018, 07:26 PM

I ordered the HC 6100 and came yesterday. last night I just had play with it in a cup of water using a lamp as the pump! When the water hit both probes light came on green and my test light came on, but when I slowly removed one of the probes from the water the test light would go out instantly (not enough time for tank to empty ) My under standing is that the light should stay on until the other ( bottom ) probe no longer senses water! Why is mine shutting off as soon as it is removed from water? Any ideas ?
Another question, probe wire are going to be to long ! Should there be a problem with shortening these wires ? Thank you for any help with these Questions .

Did you get this working? I was looking at this and found these instructions requiring a ground. https://hw.menardc.com/main/items/media/STAKE001/Install_Instruct/HC6000_Installation.pdf

With recent marginal temps the float string has been freezing up with a ring of ice. I think due to venturi effect from the leak created by the hole where the float string goes through.

Has anyone had to add a ground described?

Shaun

03-22-2018, 07:59 PM

I installed the HC6000, it seems to work well. I removed the float and pipe inside the extractor which makes it easy to clean. I installed a deep well pump so grounding does not seem to be an issue. The only thing is you cannot turn the pump on when you want without plugging it in direct, not a huge deal.

PARKER MAPLE

03-22-2018, 08:10 PM

I never installed a ground haven't had any problems. The tube that the existing floats ran up and down I'd where I installed the high and low probes. This allows some protection from sap splashing and giving a false start up. As far as the plug in goes. What I also did was wired up a switched outlet. Plug it in one side and a light bulb on other side. Bulb is great so I can make sure it's on at quick glance. And also works to warm the pump house.
Good luck

Amber Gold

02-21-2019, 09:05 AM

Below is a post that a fellow trader posted on my thread. I thought in the interest of keeping information together for future reference, I copied it here to continue the discussion.

If you have more trouble with the string you can use the HC6000 Hi Lo to operate the 120V coil of a double pole contactor. I used the one in the link for a Vacuum pump starter, for a little more $ you might be able to get a name brand like Siemens. It is simple to build in a little project box and keep it clean looking. Add a 120V plug to small gauge wire, plug into HC6000, terminate wires on the coil of the contactor. Then you can cut or add a break in your 220V pump wires and hook each side of your pump to the terminals on the contactor. Unlike if the string breaks, if this fails the pump is not going to run "usually" which may save your pump from burning up. Not sure if what I typed makes sense? With the aggravation of the string unit I had last year I figured I'd mention an option for 220V. This method is used often in industry when small control relays control large motor/loads.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001KGSJ74/ref=twister_B07C1X6SHD?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Amber Gold

02-21-2019, 09:19 AM

Shaun, I think I get what you're getting at. Although I've learned a lot about electrical from sugaring, I'm not an electrician, so I want to make sure I understand the flow of things correctly.

Install the contactor in an electrical enclosure.
Plug the hi/lo switch into the wall (120V)
Cut an extension cord for the male side of the plug with a pig tail.
Wire the pig tale to the little terminals on the contactor.
Connect the power supply to the power terminals on one side of the contactor
Connect the the pump wires to the opposing side of the contactor.

The contractor is normally closed, so the pump doesn't run unless there's a signal coming from the hi-lo switch. The signal comes in through the pigtail. Do I have this correct?

Into the enclosure, could I also include a bypass switch to turn the pump on manually? Wire from the power supply side, switch, to pump side. I think that'd work.

I think I'd be into this setup for $125-150. Much better than the $500 I was quoted.

Thanks again Shaun.

Shaun

02-21-2019, 06:17 PM

Yes, sounds about right. I think if you had the parts in front of you it would make more sense. The contactor would be normally open (energize to close). You would need a double pole switch for the pump wires to add a on off switch and maybe some terminal blocks to keep it neat but I see no reason it would not work. Right now I just unplug from the plug that (piggybacks) into the HC6000 and plug it in direct which pumps out the sap if I need to empty it. Like I said I used this for a good part of last year and it worked great but cannot speak to longevity. The string float was a definite failure for me.

Thanks for moving the thread, I posted on it last year when I had problems.

NH Maplemaker

02-21-2019, 08:44 PM

Shun, yes I did get it up and running and as Parker said it works flawless. Ran it all last season without one heck up! I did end up calling the guy who was selling them. For some reason mine did need to have a ground for it to work, I also removed all the old float tube and float balls as you did and agree that it makes it much easier to clean ! I luv the unit and highly recommend it to anyone having a problem with the sting in there releaser.

Amber Gold

02-22-2019, 07:54 AM

Thanks Shaun. I'll get the parts ordered up this weekend, and may try to install them next weekend if the sap's not running. We're heading into a cold snap, but not sure when we're coming out of it. I don't want to rock the boat if it's at least working off the string.

Good point on unplugging the controller and plugging the pump directly into the outlet to manually power the pump on.

Good to see there's a second vote of approval!

Amber Gold

03-08-2019, 08:33 PM

So, I have all the parts/pieces to put this together. It took a bit for them to come in. How did you set up the probes?

My first thought was I'd drill hi and low holes in the side of the releaser, but now I"m thinking better of it. I'd like to run the system first to make sure I like and it works fine, and I'd like to set the sensors at different elevations until I find one I like. And then maybe drill in the side for the probes.

I then thought I could drill one hole and feed both probes through and zip tie them inside the releaser. That's not going to work either because the probes are big.

Looking for ideas. Thanks

Shaun

03-09-2019, 05:59 AM

I just ended up drilling holes and using a dab of PVC glue to hold them. The probes are very repeatable. It turns on when the probe touches the sap and off when the other is exposed every time. I found the float string to do whatever it felt like at the time. As far as the grounding goes in the directions my pump is a deep well inside the releaser and it works fine(grounded). The releaser is somewhat homemade using a pitiless adapter and added another 12x36 booster for extra storage to limit the pump cycles.

I guess you could cut the wire and make a splice outside of where it could be in sap,. You might keep track of polarity and maybe solder the wires for a good connection. That way you can drill the hole you mentioned. They make weather proof compression fittings for the wire entry. I used one for the pump wires and it leaks a tiny bit of air, less than the float string hole. I remember saying, boy I hope this works when I was drilling holes mid season... It still works great, although not much sap this year.

Amber Gold

03-09-2019, 08:27 PM

Thanks Shaun. That's what makes me nervous is changing things mid stream. I'll ride it out this week, and make the swap next weekend, so I have the weekend to keep an eye on it and get comfortable.

I have a couple holes drilled in my pump discharge pipe, so the pump doesn't get air bound. Sap sprays inside the Releaser. Is that going to give the probe a false reading?

Shaun

03-10-2019, 06:21 AM

I would say yes if the sap sprayed on the sensor. My check valve is outside of the releaser with a 1/4" valve/bleed return line to deal with the air bound issue. This dumps back into the manifold section so it does not spray on the sensor. Maybe you can deflect the sap? It seems like a small bleed is enough.

Amber Gold

03-11-2020, 11:44 AM

Last season, I got the HC6000 pump control, but didn’t install it. Installed it this season, but the season was underway by the time I got to it. I plugged it in to dry test it…make sure the lights were coming on when they were supposed to, and the relay was tripping when it was supposed to…all good for like a week or more. The other day I went to make the switch over, and it didn’t work anymore…lights weren’t right.

So, my releaser setup for background. I have a Lapierre vertical electric releaser with a Sta-Rite pump inside. The discharge pumping is PVC and it had a brass swing check valve on the piping inside of the releaser. The swing check was leaking air, so that morning, I swapped it out with a straight piece of pipe and a PVC spring check mounted externally. That’s all I changed to the releaser.

So, what’s happening now, is when the bottom sensor is wet, I get a solid red…not sensing water. When the top sensor gets wet, and liquid level gets above the top sensor, it activates the relay, but as soon as the liquid level is below the top sensor, it deactivates the relay…short cycling. My situation seems like NH Maplemker’s from the first page.

My best guess, after reading through this thread, is it’s no longer getting a ground…for some reason. The releaser is all PVC, the piping is all PVC, the pump is grounded through the electrical wiring (I think), so wouldn’t the “system” be grounded while the pump is in liquid? How did just swapping out the brass check affect the ground? How do I ground the pump switch, so it works correctly?

Shaun

03-11-2020, 07:19 PM

I'm sure you have checked, does it beep 3 times after you unplug and plug back in?
I have the same set up, the pump is grounded and a gould deep well. System has been rock solid a few seasons now.

My pump is 120v. A 240v pump can operate without a ground. You may want to verify it is grounded well too.

Amber Gold

03-12-2020, 08:13 AM

I'm pretty sure it beeps, but will double check.

I'll double check the ground wire going through the Lapierre float switch.

My pump is 240V, and the pump works fine...actually, I didn't know they could work without a ground.

Yeah, I was pretty excited to make the switch because I had been dry testing it for a week, and it'd been working fine the entire time. For whatever reason, taking the brass check out disrupted something.

Thanks Shaun.

Simeon

03-13-2020, 08:10 AM

I had the same issue last year with my external pump wired 220. I had to run a separate ground wire from the pump housing in order to make the sensors work. The sap needs to be grounded, I believe, and i think you've insulated it in your system. You need to get a ground to that sap. Good luck!

Amber Gold

03-13-2020, 10:54 AM

But isn't the pump shell itself grounded, so if the pump is in sap, then isn't the system grounded? If not, how do I ground it? I don't want to bring a separate ground wire into the releaser, and the pump is wired externally.

Electrical stuff is like voodoo sometimes, so it doesn't always make sense to me.

Simeon

03-13-2020, 11:38 AM

I agree that it's like voodoo. This happened to me twice actually. The grounded pump didnt cut it and an additional ground solved the problem. Both releasers have external pumps. One I grounded by attaching a copper wire to a copper fitting on the releaser and the other end to a screw in the concrete floor. The other an alligator clip to the pump body to a rod in the ground.

Amber Gold

03-13-2020, 06:43 PM

You gave me an idea.

I don't want to drill new holes through the releaser wall. The float system has a tube that is bolted through the releaser wall. Can I wrap a ground wire around the bolt inside releaser, and then on the outside of the releaser wrap another ground wire around the bolt and connect it to the power supply ground for the pump? The bolt is stainless, so will it still work?

Thanks!

GeneralStark

03-13-2020, 09:57 PM

I would think for the amount of money you spent on this equipment LaPierre would be there in a flash and have this all sorted out...

Simeon

03-14-2020, 07:39 AM

I don't see why that wouldn't work. Good luck. If it doesn't work with the electric supply ground try going straight to floor or a small ground rod. I can't speak in electrician but I know these sensors were designed with basement sump holes in mind where the water is sitting inside the "ground"

Amber Gold

03-17-2020, 02:10 PM

So, I feel a little stupid. I set up the ground through the bolt and the system started working again...great, now I can switch it over. Take the float switch apart, so I can remove the wires, and I found the ground wire came disconnected. Since the pump was still running, I never thought about it. Reconnected the ground wire, disconnected the bolted ground, and the continuity system worked again.

So, in the end, I switched over to the new pump switch, and it's worked great ever since. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for the help.

Another added benefit of removing the float switch is the increased vac. I've never been able to get more than 27.5" with the pump, even with the woods shut off. As soon as I plugged the float string hole, vac went from 27" to 28-28.5", and when the woods freezes up, I'm 29"+. So for the last X number of years, that little float string hole has cost me 1-1.5" of vac...