Any homemade sap ladder/lifter ideas?

[Alex Davies]

I posted this thread on the homemade equipment page, but it might also be suitable here.

Looking to build a few sap ladders/ sap lifters. Need to lift sap from about 700 taps up 8 feet or so.

Looking on youtube, the only homemade designs I've seen are using 6 point star ladders with 5/16th line (search homemade sap ladder on youtube).

Anyone else done anything different?

Thanks

[PCFarms]

I would go with 5 (maybe 6) x 1/2" poly riser pipes. It'll be much cheaper and easier to build than the 5/16th. Plus it performs better. We have a sap ladder that lifts 600 taps up 40 feet with this arrangement (split over 4 ladders), we have 25 inches on top and 21 inches on the bottom

[Alex Davies]

I would go with 5 (maybe 6) x 1/2" poly riser pipes. It'll be much cheaper and easier to build than the 5/16th. Plus it performs better. We have a sap ladder that lifts 600 taps up 40 feet with this arrangement (split over 4 ladders), we have 25 inches on top and 21 inches on the bottom

Hi PCFarms,

I'm not familiar with this arrangement... Any chance you could provide some more detail?

Thanks

[maple flats]

I have 2 ladders of 8-9' each, but they only have 50-60 taps on them. I build them with the main line running into a T which splits the flow to go 2 ways at 90 degrees from the main. My mains are 1" but the tee reduces the 2 sides to 3/4". Then about 4-5" on the 3/4 there is an elbow and each has a riser in 3/4" for the height of the sap ladder. Then the 2 recombine into 1 the same as the bottom and the sap flows out the 1" main. I have a ball valve on one leg only and I adjust that to get the best flow from the system the first day I have real good flow. I then put a needle valve to add a very tiny amount of air about 30' upstream from that lower tee. I open that a tiny bit and watch the flow. It takes very little to make it work real good.
Breezy Acres may chime in, he has perfected sap ladders. I had mine long before I learned how he does them, but I think he found that 1/2" risers work best. If you have 700 taps you will need a few risers and he can tell you how to do it. I have no pictures but he has some in his pics. I think even with 700 taps you only need a very small amount of air. The air gives the lift for the sap or some say that the sap rides the bubbles up.
Make sure you have enough pump, sap ladders require good vacuum and CFM.
If I rebuild mine again, I'll use Breezy Acres method and sizing formula to know how many risers to use. I have 2 other ladders that use star fittings and 5/16 risers, the larger tubes work better for me and it will be far easier to build for your larger system.

[Russell Lampron]

I've used the star and 5/16" sap ladder and a 2 pipe ladder. With the 5/16" you want to figure 10 taps per leg or 60 taps per star. The 2 pipe ladder is 2 pipes that are the size of your mainline that run vertically. They are connected at the top and bottom with a tee at the bottom for your low point mainline to connect to feed it and another at the top for your high point mainline to connect to. For a large number of taps I like the 2 pipe set up and for a small number of taps I like the star set up.

[Alex Davies]

Thanks everyone.

I've been reconfiguring my set-up, so it looks like I will be able to get all but about 70 taps or so to run into my 1 1/4" mainline in a normal configuration. My mainline is about 7 or 8' up in a low spot, and I've got laterals coming in on both sides. I've managed to keep about 2% grade on the mainline fairly consistently, but there will be a few reverse slope lateral runs connecting into the mainline where it is high like this (we're all 3/16 on about 15% slope, so only the bottom 1 or 2 taps of these laterals will be reverse slope... hope this'll work).

I will, however, have to figure out a way to lift about 70 taps where this mainline runs through a flat, larger low spot.
I think my options at this point are to:
1) set up normal laterals at chest height and run them into the mainline in a normal fashion through manifolds. All of the taps of these laterals will be below the height of the mainline, and will have to lift about 4 feet or so to enter the mainline. In this configuration, would you use 3/16 or 5/16 laterals? (there will be no gradient, which leads me to think that 5/16 would be better, however maybe the 3/16th will be able to lift easier...
2) Similar to #1, however instead of running through regular mainfolds, have all of the laterals enter the mainline into a 6 star fitting
3) Run a separate 1" mainline through this low spot, underneath the primary 1 1/4" main, and use 6 star sap lifter approach to lift the sap from one mainline to another (6' lift).

I am a hybrid 3/16 operation using a dairy pump to keep the sap moving through the mainlines. Vacuum pump puts out about 18"

Thoughts? And Thanks.

[BreezyHill]

Alex if you search on the site sap ladders there are loads of pics of my 1/2" riser setup and notes on how to make them work nearly flawlessly.

Our system has a dozen ladders ranging from as little as 8' to as tall as 18'. 16' will be our tallest from now on. With the use of an injector you can achieve only a minuet drop in vac at each ladder.

One line has 7 ladders in a series over the distance of about 1200'. We have an elevation change of about 80' and the mains are at a 2% slope to the next ladder.

In 2019 we will be back in the game after being in an auto accident in 6-2016. Still not done with PT so I cant tap this season. In 2019 all of our star or spider ladders will be eliminated due to the 1/2" risers are far more efficient, thaw faster and freeze latter in side by side comparison in our bush. We will be adding at least 4 new ladders to get all the taps to our sugar house in our main bush.

If you need pics let me know I can find them and add them here.

There will be people that will say that injectors are not needed...just ask those that have added them how much more vac they have past the ladder after injection.
Others will say that gavity lines are better. I agree, but I cant run gravity for all my taps so those get laddered.

In past years when the wind blows the gravity lines to the sugar house will drip but the lines on the ladders bring the trees in the valley out will be flowing full bore.

Please ask every question you have. We are here to help you succeed. It is far easier to answer a simple question than to fix a simple mistake...I have made those simple mistakes and spent an hour to fix them. LOL

Ben

[Haynes Forest Products]

I'm not to old the learn please post pictures. I cut my star ladders from 12 ft to 5 ft and like what I did. I'm always looking for a better way. All my star ladders are built out of 1" PVC with 1/2 threaded stars so I could remove stars and install barb fittings.

[Alex Davies]

Alex if you search on the site sap ladders there are loads of pics of my 1/2" riser setup and notes on how to make them work nearly flawlessly.

Our system has a dozen ladders ranging from as little as 8' to as tall as 18'. 16' will be our tallest from now on. With the use of an injector you can achieve only a minuet drop in vac at each ladder.

One line has 7 ladders in a series over the distance of about 1200'. We have an elevation change of about 80' and the mains are at a 2% slope to the next ladder.

In 2019 we will be back in the game after being in an auto accident in 6-2016. Still not done with PT so I cant tap this season. In 2019 all of our star or spider ladders will be eliminated due to the 1/2" risers are far more efficient, thaw faster and freeze latter in side by side comparison in our bush. We will be adding at least 4 new ladders to get all the taps to our sugar house in our main bush.

If you need pics let me know I can find them and add them here.

There will be people that will say that injectors are not needed...just ask those that have added them how much more vac they have past the ladder after injection.
Others will say that gavity lines are better. I agree, but I cant run gravity for all my taps so those get laddered.

In past years when the wind blows the gravity lines to the sugar house will drip but the lines on the ladders bring the trees in the valley out will be flowing full bore.

Please ask every question you have. We are here to help you succeed. It is far easier to answer a simple question than to fix a simple mistake...I have made those simple mistakes and spent an hour to fix them. LOL

Ben

Some pics would be great.

Have some trouble wrapping my head around this concept.

Once again, I have a 1 1/4 main running through a low spot that is currently 8' high. There are about 70 or 80 taps in this low spot. Wondering what the best approach to get these taps into the main might be.
I take it, your suggestion would be to run a separate mainline (low to the ground, through this low spot) to collect these 80 taps, and use these 1/2" risers to lift from the low main to the tall main?

Otherwise, I could just run normal laterals at a normal height, and lift them into the mainline individually? (about a 4 or 5' lift).

Thanks all!