another day, another 3/16" tubing question (for a crazy short run)

[IWDaddo]

My main grove of maples grows high along a a rural (yet moderately busy) road. For the past three years, I've just used short lines and buckets, but I'm sick of worrying about sliding down the hill towards the road. This year I'd like to play it more safe, and have all the trees on a gravity line that empties into a storage tank I can easily access.

I've attached a quick sketch of the setup, along with the relevant numbers. It's a 310-foot run in total, with a drop of over 30 feet by the time the line reaches the tank. The first three trees - massive, old Sugar Maples - are on a slight uphill tack, but I can fudge a little with tap heights in order to keep the whole line on a downward trajectory.

My questions:
• Can I assume that 3/16th tubing will indeed be of benefit, even though this run is wickedly smaller than most setups described on these boards?
• Though I've occasionally had as many as 3 taps on the huge-diameter trees, should I stick with 2, or even 1 when doing this line?

Thanks!!

17425

[NhShaun]

The 3/16 will surely prove its worth with that kind of drop. Try to make the most drop you can from your last tap, it should pull the sap from those huge trees at the top on the flat spot no problem. I've never put more than 2 taps in a tree, but i don't have any monster maples, 2 would be safe, 1 would be silly.

[Super Sapper]

The 3/16 will surely prove its worth with that kind of drop. Try to make the most drop you can from your last tap, it should pull the sap from those huge trees at the top on the flat spot no problem. I've never put more than 2 taps in a tree, but i don't have any monster maples, 2 would be safe, 1 would be silly.

I agree with Shaun, I would also make sure you have 2+ gallons of storage for each tap 3 would be better.

[maple flats]

Using 3/16 will be ideal for that run. No need or advantage to tap higher to keep slope on the upper trees, the sap will go up and over the high point and the 32' drop will generate good vacuum. In fact, based on a presentation by Tim Wilmot (retired UVM maple expert, he pioneered the 3/16 method) last month, you will get more sap by tapping at normal height (waist to chest high) on all trees (only with vacuum, on 3/16, by gravity or mechanical). The potential sap is related to the the sap in the tree above the tap hole. As stated by others, have 3 gal/tap storage per day for those big days. Also, get the tank as far below that bottom tree as practical. On the trees over 20" DBH, put 2 taps in, on opposite sides of the tree. Then get ready to boil lots of sap.
It is suggested you use 5/16 taps and drops into the 3/16 lateral. Then there is far less chance of sap being pulled back into the taphole.

[buckeye gold]

I agree with everyone here that you should put 3/16th on that slope. I resisted tubing for years (mostly because I was too cheap to spend the money), but when I was diagnosed with heart disease in August 2017 I suddenly had to rethink life processes. I knew last year that collecting from buckets everyday was getting the best of me (I do it all alone). So this fall I read everything I could and lobbied for help on here and jumped into the tuping pool. I first say thanks to all who helped, especially Maple Flats and Dr. Tim. I started with my fall taps that are on good recommended slope that is very similar to yours. I was pleased with the results and had my best sap volume ever from fall taps. However, the biggest surprise has been instead of a 2-3 week fall season, those taps are still producing 8 weeks later!!! I then tapped my regular woods and have really been pleased that I can gather sap and cook in less than 1/2 hour. I also get good runs on marginal days and I now get decent production from red maples. So far this is an absolute win. I have already made as much syrup as all of my fall 2016 through spring 2017 season and have the best yet to come. So I say don't waste time get at it.

Now, here is my only dissenting comment. I see everyone commenting on optimal slope conditions. I will tell everyone to not go out and abandon plans for 3/16th because you don't have 30 foot of drop or long enough run between your last drop and collection. There is still benefit from less than perfect set ups. With this said, I think there is a point of diminishing returns and perhaps the good Dr. Perkins can expand on that. I set up one run with 16 taps that is probably 300 feet long and has around 15-18 feet of drop. I have it on it's own collection barrel and can monitor it. It does not do as well as the runs with big drop, but when I compare it to what I done on buckets it is still worth the tubing application. If I consider the decrease in labor, time and what I expect to be an extended season for those taps I am guessing my sap production will equal or exceed production from buckets. I am happy with that and it serves my purpose. If you have marginal slope and just want to make life easier then it is still worth doing. If you feel your slope won't get you enough vacuum the put in a hybrid set that uses a 5/16th mainline on your lower slope and gain what you can from 3/16th laterals. It's not always about maximizing the application.

[IWDaddo]

This is amazing info, and a relief that I'm not on the wrong track. I suppose the only question remaining is using 5/16 for the taps dropping into the lateral... to be honest, I've never seen the kind of flow that would make me worry about backflow, but I assume the gravity I'll be getting will be a lot better than the old bucket method? Also, do those taps leading to the lateral have to be above the lateral with a straight shot down into it? I thought I saw a video or two where the sugaring guy actually made a mid-air small loop with the tap tube, and didn't seem to care where the lateral was.

[Super Sapper]

The upper taps should not matter but the lower ones I would have above the line if not much drop after that tap to your holding tank.

[eustis22]

IW your setup is near identical to mine. I use 3/6 drops. Whats your bottom holding tank look like? How are you getting all that sap (and there will be a lot) up your hill?

I also have two 5/16 lines on a way shallower slope that draw sap well enough.

[buckeye gold]

Ok this morning has brought to light one of the downsides to tubing....maintenance. Yesterday I decided to walk all of my lines and fixed one squirrel chew and a tee pull apart. I also had one blocked tee from a shaving I cleaned. Then I wake up this morning to an ice storm. I walked outside and I could hear limbs breaking all over the place, so I imagine I will be fixing lines soon as this melts.

[maple flats]

Since I started using 3/16 3 seasons ago I think I've only had 2-3 pull aparts, but my luck may stem from using a Hotend system to assemble the fittings. I warm the end of the tubing in the Hot End and push it on the fitting. I believe the warm tubing then forms around the barbs better. For those who can't justify a Hot End, try getting some glycerine, mix it 1/1 ratio with water, heat it up to 150-160 and put it in a preheated thermos. Then use that. It should remain hot enough to work for 2-3, maybe 4 hours. Then when finished, save the mixture, labeled well, for next year and reuse. When I use mine, I hold the tubing in the heating chamber about 7-8 seconds when the battery is fully charged, as the charge starts to wear down, I add a second at a time. I get 4-6 hours on a fresh battery depending on the outside temperature, and I carry a spare in case I last that long. Try to only stick the end 5/8-3/4" into the hot mixture.

[Cjadamec]

As was said by others better than myself, gravity vacuum might not cost anything to run (gas or electricity), it will cost you man hours to maintain. There is no vacuum system that doesn't cost something thru the season. I've had 5 animal chews on one of my runs in about 3 weeks time. I'm just hoping I have enough spare fittings to make repairs for the whole season.

Its still a lot easier and quicker than collecting buckets.

[IWDaddo]

Okay, done more research on this site... so thankful for all the man (and woman)-hours that goes into these message boards. Kind of the best thing the internet does.

I have one more question, though: what is the maximum length of the 5/16 feeder tube from the tree into the 3/16 main line? The fence behind the trees would make a great support for a downward trajectory all the way along, but that would mean some of those feeders might be 6 feet in length. Is that far too long, or if the drop is good, it shouldn't matter?