Zap Bac!

[howrmare]

Just wondering has anybody used these? are they worth the extra money? Thanks for any input!

[Mac640]

I've been using them for three years. They seem to work well. I use them on gravity tubing which I tap in February. The taps produce very well until I pull them at the end of the season, usually around the first week in April recently.

[mountainvan]

I've used them since they first came out. I tap in January and get sap well into April as long as the weather holds.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

I think we'll try those next time we replace all the taps.

[Mark B]

Actually have 100 ordered, and just waiting. I'm transitioning all my gravity runs to them.

[blissville maples]

I've used them since they first came out. I tap in January and get sap well into April as long as the weather holds.

Do you use them for two years?? They say you can.
I haven't gotten any bc they never have them in, guess I need to order them in, however as a fan of colloidal silver I'd bet they work well. I am going to have to make a point to get some next year as this is the first I've heard and it appears positive

[mountainvan]

I have used them for two years. Now I replace every year. An extra $5 of syrup per tap makes it a good investment.

[to100]

What are they?

[lewichuk19]

Spouts....go on YouTube and search 'zap bac', pretty interesting video on there

[mountainvan]

Antimicrobial spouts. They increase your sap yield quite a lot.

[Maple Man 85]

Back flow is part of the equation as well, without a check valve aren't you still introducing bacteria to the tree? Studies say more yield with Zap Bac which I can agree with but check valve spouts have similar results on a comparable replacement cycle.

[S.S.S]

Check valve spouts are to be replaced every year.

[FDA]

Back flow is part of the equation as well, without a check valve aren't you still introducing bacteria to the tree? Studies say more yield with Zap Bac which I can agree with but check valve spouts have similar results on a comparable replacement cycle.

Do you realize that you're punching the main moderator in the gut by bashing the check valves...... :cry:

[DrTimPerkins]

Do you realize that you're punching the main moderator in the gut by bashing the check valves...... :cry:

Actually, I'm just a lowly Moderator." There is at least one "Super Moderator." Secondly, I can take it. :)

There is quite a lot annual variation in terms of sanitation effects, so quoting selected numbers is pretty common in some circles. Some years produce big improvements, some don't (like 2012). One year may show one thing, another season is different and can yield different results. The long-term results depend on a lot of factors.

If you want to totally ignore the research I've done, then look at the Cornell research. The original black CV adapter produced an average of 75% improvement (on vacuum) compared to old spouts/drops from 2010-2013 (about 44% on gravity). The newer polycarbonate version typically outperforms the black version by another 30-35%. The silver spout in the same group of studies generated a 47% improvement over that same time frame in the Cornell studies, and they were brushed with a stiff brush to expose more new surface for silver migration.

In my original studies, we tried silver fittings, but abandoned the approach because the CV produced higher yields, yielded higher net profits, and didn't violate organic production rules.

If we assume about a 50% improvement with silver spouts and a base production on old spouts/drops of about 12 gal/tap, then we get a total of 18 gal, or 6 gal of additional sap. Maybe you have really super trees that are big, so you have a base of 16 gal on old drops/spouts (a fairly high-end estimate) and end up with a total of 24 gal sap, with 8 gal of added sap if you switch to new silver spouts. Unless you're making that into candy or cream, it's hard to understand at current syrup prices how that ends up being an additional $5 net profit. At best you might be looking at around $4 gross profit max (with sap at $0.50/gal) if you don't include any material or labor costs. If you're brushing them each year, you're dropping your profit even more quickly.

Realistically, I don't mind people trying or using the silver spouts -- they have their place. As I've learned in the past 8 yrs, everything is fair when it comes to marketing.

[BlueberryHill]

We need silver spouts with check valves! Silver alloy drill bits too! You could use the same tap hole for 3 years before it dried up, haha.

[Maple Man 85]

Do you realize that you're punching the main moderator in the gut by bashing the check valves...... :cry:

Someone's got to ask the question that's how we all learn.

[maple flats]

After talking with mountainvan a few months ago, when I went to see his operation and pick his brain with my brother in law, I ordered 200 of them. I made up drops with them. This is the first time I've experimented with any thing after I first used CV1 and then CV2. This year I tried 200 Zap Bac, 200 CV2 and 200 seasonal spouts for my new drops. The seasonal ones will be used only on new tubing or new drops in 3/16 with 5/16 drops.
Reading an ad in the new Maple News that I got today, the Zap Bac can be used for 3 seasons. I'll try 2 seasons on about 100 and 3 seasons on the other 100.

[blissville maples]

Back flow is part of the equation as well, without a check valve aren't you still introducing bacteria to the tree? Studies say more yield with Zap Bac which I can agree with but check valve spouts have similar results on a comparable replacement cycle.

Backflow is an issue yes however under the presence of silver in nano-sized molecules bacteria cannot grow as silver binds with oxygen before aerobic germs can use the oxygen to survive ( I'm a fan of colloidal silver). I will have to try these next year.

Mountainvan- what do you make per tap? Do you still change your drops every 2-3 years

The biggest thing I don't like about check valves is when u need them they start to fail, by that I mean the balls grow slime I feel because it is a softer rubber likely more porous for bacteria to thrive and I noticed the port it seals is rather small and plugs easily or gets something in the way of it seating correctly which deems it rather useless as a valve. As dr. Tim has stated This happens with them all however during the first half of the season it does not and the valve is working correctly- the problem with that is the valves will net you more production on the second half of the season and from what I found when I use them probably 20 to 30% we're not working so when bacteria is growing at its fastest in the middle of March the tap hole is getting backflow just as all the other spouts on the market. And being .42 apiece adds up. I may try them on an isolated bush after about 5-6 years of no valves and if I see an increase in production then they may be worth something. One has to have good record keeping

[sirsapsalot]

Backflow is an issue yes however under the presence of silver in nano-sized molecules bacteria cannot grow as silver binds with oxygen before aerobic germs can use the oxygen to survive ( I'm a fan of colloidal silver). I will have to try these next year.

Mountainvan- what do you make per tap? Do you still change your drops every 2-3 years

The biggest thing I don't like about check valves is when u need them they start to fail, by that I mean the balls grow slime I feel because it is a softer rubber likely more porous for bacteria to thrive and I noticed the port it seals is rather small and plugs easily or gets something in the way of it seating correctly which deems it rather useless as a valve. As dr. Tim has stated This happens with them all however during the first half of the season it does not and the valve is working correctly- the problem with that is the valves will net you more production on the second half of the season and from what I found when I use them probably 20 to 30% we're not working so when bacteria is growing at its fastest in the middle of March the tap hole is getting backflow just as all the other spouts on the market. And being .42 apiece adds up. I may try them on an isolated bush after about 5-6 years of no valves and if I see an increase in production then they may be worth something. One has to have good record keeping

Good info! Tough to say that's not logical...... You have me thinking, glad its cold and I haven't bought my cv's yet...

[blissville maples]

The logic and principal of check valves is real and no joke- prevent backflow will stop bacteria growth. I just hate it when u pull a tap and no vacuum gets to it bc it's plugged with slime in the tiny hole where ball seats. Since i pull taps and suck a light bleach solution thru all drop lines as I pull at end of season, I can tell u this from experience

[S.S.S]

Last year I had seasonal spouts side by side with check valve adaptors and at end of season I could see the difference. The trees with check valve adaptors where running way better then seasonal spouts.

[mountainvan]

I've gotten .38-.5 gals of syrup/tap using the antimicrobial spouts. As mentioned before every year is a different and a challenge. Last year with 60-70 in February I still went into April. i try and change 1,000 drops a year, but not every year. Floods and cancer seem to get in the way! I really like the stubbie and antimicrobial adaptor combination. Easy to change every year with good results for increased sapflow. I used to ream out the holes to keep going, but no more thanks to improvements in spout technology. By the way, I've been in tapping since 1992. ****, this is my 26th year sugaring!

[blissville maples]

I've gotten .38-.5 gals of syrup/tap using the antimicrobial spouts. As mentioned before every year is a different and a challenge. Last year with 60-70 in February I still went into April. i try and change 1,000 drops a year, but not every year. Floods and cancer seem to get in the way! I really like the stubbie and antimicrobial adaptor combination. Easy to change every year with good results for increased sapflow. I used to ream out the holes to keep going, but no more thanks to improvements in spout technology. By the way, I've been in tapping since 1992. ****, this is my 26th year sugaring!


How was the healing of the tree with teaming out? They heales the same or slower? Do you go a size larger? I've thought about it, but I don't know if it's necessary, u?

[fisheatingbagel]

Anyone using these taps with buckets, and have you seen a difference with taphole viability?

[mountainvan]

First question blissville, when I use to ream I would drill 1" into the tree then another 1/2" if I reamed. Healing seemed the same to me. Going to a bigger bit would be tough to have a nice round hole I would think. I do not ream any more though.
As for buckets, yes I use them on buckets and I've had sap flow from January to April. I put a short length of tubing on the spout so the sap drips into the bucket. My test tap from December was still giving me a full bucket the last flow.

[blissville maples]

Ok I see, that's an interesting approach. If healing is good I wouldn't think it hurts the tree any