Help setting up a Shurflo vacuum pump system

[Stiets]

Looking at making a last-minute attempt at setting up 2 lines on 3/16” tubing using a Shurflo pump to gain vacuum since I don’t have much elevation drop to work with. One line will have 50 taps and the other line 30 taps. I can run a power cord to the pump location if needed. I am looking for any advice before I make some purchases.
The following items are what I plan to purchase soon to start the project:

SHURflo 2088-443-144 Standard Demand Pump 12VDC - 3.5GPM/open 2.3GPM/30-psi Intermittent duty
https://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-2088-443-144-Standard-Demand-12VDC/dp/B002MWAB6M/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1517781328&sr=8-4&keywords=shurflo+2088

Baco engineering 1/2" DC12V SS304 Motorized Valve,Electrical Ball Valve CR-02
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OUTP6D8/ref=asc_df_B00OUTP6D85359706/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B00OUTP6D8&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6623602760441069551&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003451&hvtargid=pla-318497184453

SHURFLO (255-313) 1/2" Twist-On Pipe Strainer
https://www.amazon.com/SHURFLO-255-313-Twist-Pipe-Strainer/dp/B000V2W0GE/ref=pd_bxgy_60_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000V2W0GE&pd_rd_r=HTXKQX1292FHVH5JBM09&pd_rd_w=mQ00X&pd_rd_wg=IPSBx&psc=1&refRID=HTXKQX1292FHVH5JBM09&dpID=41O9eNAN30L&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail
(https://www.amazon.com/SHURFLO-255-313-Twist-Pipe-Strainer/dp/B000V2W0GE/ref=pd_bxgy_60_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000V2W0GE&pd_rd_r=HTXKQX1292FHVH5JBM09&pd_rd_w=mQ00X&pd_rd_wg=IPSBx&psc=1&refRID=HTXKQX1292FHVH5JBM09&dpID=41O9eNAN30L&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=detailhttp://)
Is that the correct pump?? My thought is to get a 12v shurflo since the valve runs on 12v also. My plan is to use a PC power supply to run the pump and any 12v accessories. Is that possible, any limitations to doing??

Has anyone used that type of valve? If not what type of valve to do you use to open the line to drain the pump so it doesn’t freeze?

Can anyone recommend a sensor that will shut off the pump when the temps drop below freezing??

I know that I will have more question but figured I have to start some place. Let me know if I need to post more info about the location of setup. THANK YOU!!! :)

[mike103]

IMO go with the shurflo 4008 instead, the motor will last longer and its 12v dc. 50 taps on 1 run is high, break it into 2 runs of 25 because on high sap flow days it may be restrictive. The valve you would want is normally open.
Inkbird 308 is the temp sensor that seems to be a good choice for pump shutoff.

[Super Sapper]

I have been using the 2088 pumps for 3 years with up to 150 taps with no problems. I would agree that 50 taps are too many for 1 line though.

[Clinkis]

I’ve ran 2 2088 pumps and had very good luck with them as well. Just make sure they are the 12v version which it looks like you listed. They have a little more capacity then the 4008 though a little more money. Just stay away from the 110AC models as they were know to have limited motor life when operated continuously.

[Stiets]

IMO go with the shurflo 4008 instead, the motor will last longer and its 12v dc. 50 taps on 1 run is high, break it into 2 runs of 25 because on high sap flow days it may be restrictive. The valve you would want is normally open.
Inkbird 308 is the temp sensor that seems to be a good choice for pump shutoff.

Thank you for the temp sensor, it looks great and easy to use.
How about this valve?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06X99PHJJ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B06X99PHJJ&pd_rd_wg=OeBrx&pd_rd_r=2W8N3J8008SA1JS2Z3HE&pd_rd_w=vUWPO


I have been using the 2088 pumps for 3 years with up to 150 taps with no problems. I would agree that 50 taps are too many for 1 line though.

OK sounds good. I will split that line into two, thank you.


I’ve ran 2 2088 pumps and had very good luck with them as well. Just make sure they are the 12v version which it looks like you listed. They have a little more capacity then the 4008 though a little more money. Just stay away from the 110AC models as they were know to have limited motor life when operated continuously.
12 volt it is, the 115v doesn't sound to good. Thank you.

Attached is a sketch of the site layout. Based on the site topography the lowest point is where the arrows point and a collection tank will be with the pump. I will pull my truck up to the edge of the field above and pump up with a 1" pump. The sugar shack is down the road at the farm. Stietzel Family Farm (https://www.facebook.com/StietzelFamilyFarm/http://)

17414

[Mark B]

I found this temp controller at amazon. I have in paired with a 21 amp 12v led power supply (eBay) and a 4008.

Wangdd22 W1209 -50-110°C 12V DC Digital Thermostat Temperature Control Switch Sensor Module with Acrylic Box https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N035M70?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

[Biz]

You are doing all the right things. I've used that type of valve with my controllers and it works well. That type needs to have an open signal and a close signal so you may need to add a SPDT relay. The strainer is OK but ones with a swivel fitting are much easier to use for connecting and reconnecting. A PC power supply will work but I have seen them do a thermal shutdown when weather warms up because the internal fan stays at a slow speed when not powering a PC motherboard. Suggest hot wiring fan so it is always on at max. A better idea would be to find a battery you aren't using in the winter from a lawn tractor or something and use that with a battery charger that is always connected. Let us know how it works out!

Dave

[Stiets]

Thank you all for the input. This is very hopefully as I am going to make a few purchases today.
The pump I am going to get is:
Shurflo 2088-554-144 Fresh Water Pump, 12 Volts, 3.5 Gallons Per Minute, 45 Psi

Not really sure what the differences are between the different 2088 models. I hope this is the rcorrect one.

Makes sense about the strainer and the swivels. I found one that barbs on one side and a swivel fitting in the other.

Going with the Inkbird temp sensor. Seems easy to use and set up.

Still confused with the valve, how it works and which exact one to get. Will the valve open once the power is turned off to drain the system? Then closes when the power comes on?

Probably won't use the power supply but will come up with an adapter or run a battery on a charger.

Thanks again for the help guys!!!!

[Biz]

There are different valve types that are controlled differently. The easiest to use (but usually not the cheapest) is a valve with type CR-03 or CR-04 wiring. You just power one signal to open or close. Below link is for a CR-04 type, normally open, it is 3 wires, 12 volts: ground, 12V power, and CLOSE signal. You could just connect the CLOSE signal to the pump voltage.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Motorized-Ball-Valve-Stainless-SS-EPDM-9V-12V-to-24-VDC-VAC-2-wire-N-O-/301904928622

PM me if you need any help on this.

Dave

[Stiets]

There are different valve types that are controlled differently. The easiest to use (but usually not the cheapest) is a valve with type CR-03 or CR-04 wiring. You just power one signal to open or close. Below link is for a CR-04 type, normally open, it is 3 wires, 12 volts: ground, 12V power, and CLOSE signal. You could just connect the CLOSE signal to the pump voltage.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Motorized-Ball-Valve-Stainless-SS-EPDM-9V-12V-to-24-VDC-VAC-2-wire-N-O-/301904928622

PM me if you need any help on this.

Dave

Thank you sooo much Dave. This is all very overwhelming since this is my first vacuum pump system build and don't want to waste time returning things. I put in my order and should be getting everything in a few days. If I run into any problems I will PM ya Dave, thanks again for the help.
Your controllers look awesome!!

I will post up photos of my setup when I get it together and running. :cool:

[Super Sapper]

If I were going to use a valve to open when the pump is not running, I would look into a timer to delay the opening to try and avoid back surging into the tap hole.

[Biz]

I tried the delay and it didn't work. Line held vacuum until valve opened and I never found a good way to bleed it down slowly. IMO it is better to use CV taps to prevent backflow into the taphole and deal with the quick vacuum drop. I open the bypass valve first and run the pump a few seconds to purge sap from the pump before shutting it down.

Dave

[Stiets]

So far all has gone well with the pump project. I have hit a snag and not sure why. When I power the pump I can't get it suck up anything. I am powering it off a 12v 10amp power adapter. Not sure if that is the issue or something else? Am I missing something?

I disconnected the manifold and used a piece of straight tubing and still nothing. I noticed that when the pump runs the green light on the power adapter flashes. :confused:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0111A92BK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0111A92BK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1http://)


http://i.imgur.com/HfttF0r.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/HfttF0r)

http://i.imgur.com/HfttF0r.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/HfttF0r)

[Mark B]

Wondering if you are under powered on your power supply. I bought a 21 amp led power supply for mine. I believe that the shurflow draws 6 to 7 amps while running, but I believe needs approximately 15 amps at startup. It may be that the pump never achieves startup.

[Stiets]

Wondering if you are under powered on your power supply. I bought a 21 amp led power supply for mine. I believe that the shurflow draws 6 to 7 amps while running, but I believe needs approximately 15 amps at startup. It may be that the pump never achieves startup.

Good point Mark. I will find a 12v battery to test it tomorrow and maybe work out a different power source.

[MapleCamp]

I run mine with deep cycle batteries and solar panels, I have quick connects on the pump to my 3/4 main line, have about 75 trees on each of 3 runs. The batteries will run the pumps, 4008's 24 hours. I bring the pumps in at night when flow stops or freezing threatens, and charge the batteries if needed. It sounds like a lot of work but since it used to be all buckets and pails and now comes right to the sugar shack I'm very happy and less sore.

[SeanD]

So far all has gone well with the pump project. I have hit a snag and not sure why. When I power the pump I can't get it suck up anything. I am powering it off a 12v 10amp power adapter. Not sure if that is the issue or something else? Am I missing something?

I disconnected the manifold and used a piece of straight tubing and still nothing. I noticed that when the pump runs the green light on the power adapter flashes. :confused:


I notice there aren't any clamp on those hoses. That could be your problem. My strainer has a threaded fitting, not a barbed fitting. If yours are threads, too then there's part of your problem.

Break it down to the pump by itself then add fittings and sections bit by bit. Even the tiniest least causes a total drop in vacuum.

I had a problem with one of mine and was just about to break it down and decided to snug up the cap on the filter. Boom. It shot to 9 inches dry.

[trevor47smith]

If I were going to use a valve to open when the pump is not running, I would look into a timer to delay the opening to try and avoid back surging into the tap hole.

Hello,

Understand this is an old post but was doing some reading and wanted to inquire regarding possible back flow into taps and running the pump for a period of time when opening the bypass valve.

Hope the link works as it is drawing of what I am thinking.

Temp Controller to be set +2C On / -1C Off open to suggestions if should be different
Bypass valve(NO) receives signal from Temp Controller - Closed @ +2C and Open @ -1C
Delay Timer Controller powers pump and trigger signal is sent from Temp Controller - Trigger High @ +2 and Trigger Low @ -1C
- This device has a mode that will hold with trigger High(pump runs) and when trigger is Low it will run the pump for a set programed time then shut off(2mins is what I was thinking)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AMVYWaRNF4wyQLTC8

Looking for any feedback

[DRoseum]

I've built a couple of these and if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably simplify things even more and use more plug and play components vs custom building everything. On one unit I put in a parallel pump bypass line with an ultra low crack pressure check valve (https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-check-valve-3-8-0-3-psi-crack-pressure) (0.3psi = 8 inch of water). If pump fails or shuts off while sap is still flowing it can naturally bypass the failed pump.


Temp controller that is pre-built on Amazon that has 2 independent sensors and outlets. This wasn't available when I built my units, but if it was, I would've tried it.

https://a.co/d/1fGQ4rm

This will let you plug the 12v transformer right into one outlet and control the pump. Then you can plug a 120v heater / seed germination mat in the other and set your temps for both.

Here is a good power supply for this setup
https://a.co/d/82m0HTp

Easy 120v heater that's 20W (search for one that's best size for your pump box
https://a.co/d/asaajfZ

If you have to transfer sap, use a level controller and a seperate pump / power supply
https://a.co/d/5zrJOWd

I use all push fit (john guest style) connectors so it's super compact and simple to assemble, disassemble, clean etc.

They make low pressure (0.3 psi) check valves in 1/4" that you could put on each line at the pump manifold to prevent backflow. They are kind of pricey if you have a lot of lines. I use CV spouts and haven't felt compelled to add these.
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-check-valve-1-4-0-3-psi-crack-pressure-red

[trevor47smith]

Howdy

This is great feedback simple = better :)

Will mention I will be off grid my sugar house is in the boonies but you have made me start searching different components as I will be also doing a separate transfer pump.

Any chance you are willing to draw out your basic plumbing that shows how you used that ultra low cracking check valve?

Another question... https://shorturl.at/aoQRU this level controller has the blue sensor as a ground. What happens it the fluid its touching freezes? Originally I was going to use a float style sump pump switch for my transfer pump.

[DRoseum]

https://www.roseummaple.com/2021/02/316-tubing-vacuum-system.html

That common blue wire should be unaffected by a freeze. It's just what is used to determine fluid level in conjunction with other 2 probes using resistivity/conductivity of the fluid.

Only downside, those DONT work on permeate (no minerals or compounds so NO conductivity). You would have to use float (mechanical or sensor/signal) for that application. I use that to shut off RO automatically on rinse/flush cycle.

[blucoondawg]

https://www.roseummaple.com/2021/02/316-tubing-vacuum-system.html

That common blue wire should be unaffected by a freeze. It's just what is used to determine fluid level in conjunction with other 2 probes using resistivity/conductivity of the fluid.

Only downside, those DONT work on permeate (no minerals or compounds so NO conductivity). You would have to use float (mechanical or sensor/signal) for that application. I use that to shut off RO automatically on rinse/flush cycle.


I've built a couple of these and if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably simplify things even more and use more plug and play components vs custom building everything. On one unit I put in a parallel pump bypass line with an ultra low crack pressure check valve (https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-check-valve-3-8-0-3-psi-crack-pressure) (0.3psi = 8 inch of water). If pump fails or shuts off while sap is still flowing it can naturally bypass the failed pump.


Temp controller that is pre-built on Amazon that has 2 independent sensors and outlets. This wasn't available when I built my units, but if it was, I would've tried it.

https://a.co/d/1fGQ4rm

This will let you plug the 12v transformer right into one outlet and control the pump. Then you can plug a 120v heater / seed germination mat in the other and set your temps for both.

Here is a good power supply for this setup
https://a.co/d/82m0HTp

Easy 120v heater that's 20W (search for one that's best size for your pump box
https://a.co/d/asaajfZ

If you have to transfer sap, use a level controller and a seperate pump / power supply
https://a.co/d/5zrJOWd

I use all push fit (john guest style) connectors so it's super compact and simple to assemble, disassemble, clean etc.

They make low pressure (0.3 psi) check valves in 1/4" that you could put on each line at the pump manifold to prevent backflow. They are kind of pricey if you have a lot of lines. I use CV spouts and haven't felt compelled to add these.
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-check-valve-1-4-0-3-psi-crack-pressure-red

Great information, do you think the power supply you list would be enough to run a shurflo 4048? I built a box last year and used a different type of power supply it's one of the ones that looks like a long flat tin box with screw terminals on one end to make the connections, I haven't pinned down the problem yet but I think what's happening is that power supply is getting too hot and shutting down. I go out there mid day and the pump isn't running, I unplug the power and plug it back in and it starts up again and seems to then run fine until the next morning when it starts again. It's been giving me fits. I also like your John first style fittings. I may rebuild my manifold with that type so it's easier to add or remove components

[DRoseum]

According to shurflo 4048 specs, it can pull up to 10 Amps. The 150Watt 12vdc transformer above would top out at 12.5 AMPS, leaving 20% headroom.

If you want, you could move up to a 200Watt transformer (16.6 amps) to give more operational headroom at peak load.

12V Power Supply 200W Low Voltage Transformer Adapter,AC90-130V to DC12V 16.66A 200 Watts Waterproof IP67 for Indoor and Outdoor Use https://a.co/d/bq1qKFx

[blucoondawg]

The supply i use now is 20 amp supposedly. Not all supplies are equal though. I figured that would be plenty big to avoid any issues. Maybe it's just not capable of running constantly without getting hot, I don't know. I'm not even sure that's my issue but it could be. This week I'm gonna put a amp meter on it and see what it actually draws, I'm suspecting it's not going to draw anywhere near 10 amps except on start up, unless maybe when it's dead heading it goes higher, I don't know yet. I am going to try a different one though


According to shurflo 4048 specs, it can pull up to 10 Amps. The 150Watt 12vdc transformer above would top out at 12.5 AMPS, leaving 20% headroom.

If you want, you could move up to a 200Watt transformer (16.6 amps) to give more operational headroom at peak load.

12V Power Supply 200W Low Voltage Transformer Adapter,AC90-130V to DC12V 16.66A 200 Watts Waterproof IP67 for Indoor and Outdoor Use https://a.co/d/bq1qKFx

[trevor47smith]

Hello

Well I have built my Shurflo setup but am struggling with the W1209 settings :( I have Temp Set to -1C, P0 - C, P1 - 3. Thought these setting would turn my pump on at 2C and off at -1C however it is not working like that. It is shutting off at -2.5 and on at -2 and tested on two different controllers. If I set it so Temp Set to 0, P0 - C, P1 - 3 it will shut off at 0 and turn on at 3C.

Can anyone help me out confused to hell

Think there is a bug in these things when trying to cross over between - and + :) going to order something else

Setpoint Hys(P1) Relay ON Relay OFF
2 3 5 3
0 3 3 0
-1 3 -1.9 -2
-1 2 0 0.1
-1 1 -1 -0.7


Update on this topic. It would seem the W1209s that I purchased have some sort of bug when in cooling/mode and crossing over between -/+ using the Hys :( running at 0C/2C now and bought different units. Figured I would share.

On a different note tapped today and want to say that check value to bypass to the tank works great :) did not have the pump on and when I got back to shack to turn it on sap was flowing into the collection tank through the check valve. Simple and easy appreciate the help