Beginner looking for tubing advice.

[KJamesJR]

I would like to experiment with tubing this year. Last year was my first year making syrup. I started with about 7 taps. This year I'm expanding to 40.

I have 30 trees I would like to test tubing on but I'm not familiar with all the accessories that go with it. I would like to go with 3/16 tubing on a gravity fed system. I was thinking maybe 5 trees per line going in to 5 gallon food grade buckets. So I'd need 6 lateral lines in total.

If I have this right I'm going to need per line:

1 anchor(end line hook? the part that hooks to the first tree)
https://www.bascommaple.com/item/ipelh316/316_tubing_fittings/

5 drop lines with spile,
https://www.bascommaple.com/item/lacsp316/316_tubing_fittings/

5 connectors for each drop line into lateral line(need to figure out what these are called)
https://www.bascommaple.com/item/iptp316/316_tubing_fittings/ <---- Is this it?

I think that's it? I'm not sure how much tubing I'll need yet, or how I'll secure it to the buckets.

Are 5 trees too little for 3/16 line? Maybe I should use 5/16?

I also don't know if ordering from that company is economical, their price for tubing seems high.

Let me know what y'all think.

[johnpma]

As far as anchoring goes this works very well on both 3/16" and 5/16" other will be able to answer your other questions.

[BAP]

Where in NH are you? The reason I ask, there may be a member close by that you can go look over their tubing to see how they run it and get firsthand advice.

[KJamesJR]

Where in NH are you? The reason I ask, there may be a member close by that you can go look over their tubing to see how they run it and get firsthand advice.

I live in Gilmanton. I think the nearest producer is Sunnyside Maples in Loudon. I went there last year but they didn't look like they were doing tours of their sugarbush. I thought it would be awkward to just go walking around uninvited.

[whity]

We will most likely be working on our sugar bush this coming weekend if you would like to check it out. Sunny side in Loudon is where we get our supplys, Good people to deal with. Same prices as Bascoms for the most part. We are all on 5/16

[HannahL]

If you are looking to run 3/16 tubing you will need to have at least a 10' grade between your collection tank and your first tap heading up grade. I personally would place at least 7 taps on one line and not exceed 25. The 5/16 line will need some kind of mechanical assistant to achieve vacuum. You can find all kinds of threads on here telling the particulars why 5/16 will not produce the natural vacuum on a slop so I will not repeat. For collection I would use something larger than a bucket as your production will increase due to the vacuum applied to 3/16 line.

Having said all that, if you do not have a grade of at least 10' between your collection point and the first tap then you may want to rethink the 3/16 application.

[Biz]

I'm going to be using this for the end fitting on my 3/16 lines. You wrap the line around the end tree, hook it back onto the line with the hook, connect the end of the tubing to one fitting, and use a drop line on the other fitting to your end tap. Clever device. I think you can even adjust tension somewhat.

https://www.bascommaple.com/item/laelh316/316_tubing_fittings/

[BAP]

You don’t need to have 10’ drop between collection point and first tap to gain vacuum. Any drop will gain 0.8” of vacuum per each foot of drop. More drop is desirable, but any will gain you more vacuum than using 5/16”. Depending how your trees line up, you may be able to put more taps per line and have less lines.

[ronintank]

here are links to some pics that will help.
17232
1723317234

[KJamesJR]

I'm going to be using this for the end fitting on my 3/16 lines. You wrap the line around the end tree, hook it back onto the line with the hook, connect the end of the tubing to one fitting, and use a drop line on the other fitting to your end tap. Clever device. I think you can even adjust tension somewhat.

https://www.bascommaple.com/item/laelh316/316_tubing_fittings/

So two of those fittings have to be open then? This was one of the issues I was having. I was unsure which fittings were for running sap and which were just for fastening.

Also, These trees are located uphill. The first anchor trees are roughly 12' above were the buckets will be.

[KJamesJR]

Are there larger pictures? I can't read that text, but I've been looking for something exactly like this.

[Biz]

The fittings have two barbs for lines, a hook for fastening to the line to hold it in place, and a solid pin for inserting end of tubing at end of season after tap is cut off.


So two of those fittings have to be open then? This was one of the issues I was having. I was unsure which fittings were for running sap and which were just for fastening.

Also, These trees are located uphill. The first anchor trees are roughly 12' above were the buckets will be.

[KJamesJR]

The fittings have two barbs for lines, a hook for fastening to the line to hold it in place, and a solid pin for inserting end of tubing at end of season after tap is cut off.

Ah okay... Yeah I had the wrong one picked out. You call them end fittings, I called them anchor or 'beginning' fittings.

[ronintank]

17249
17250
another try with the pic. i can't find the original.

[DrTimPerkins]

You only need to loop completely around the end tree. All other trees you merely turn at, with the tubing resting against the tree, not looping around them. The contact of the lateral line against the tree is enough to keep it in place when tight. So at the trees that are not the end tree, you only have the lateral line going past the tree and resting on the tree, with a drop line cut in near where the tree is contacted by the lateral.

[ronintank]

you only need to loop completely around the end tree. All other trees you merely turn at, with the tubing resting against the tree, not looping around them. The contact of the lateral line against the tree is enough to keep it in place when tight. So at the trees that are not the end tree, you only have the lateral line going past the tree and resting on the tree, with a drop line cut in near where the tree is contacted by the lateral.
like this.
17252

[DrTimPerkins]

like this.

Yes, but make sure the lines never run back UP. General rule is "tight, straight, and downhill." They should always have some amount of downward trend to them. Don't Y into lateral lines to pick up occasional trees here and there if at all possible.

[KJamesJR]

Yes, but make sure the lines never run back UP. General rule is "tight, straight, and downhill." They should always have some amount of downward trend to them. Don't Y into lateral lines to pick up occasional trees here and there if at all possible.

Can I 'Y' the lateral lines into say... two different tanks or buckets at the collection point?

Also, what kind of tubing would you recommend for someone who doesn't have one of those tubing splicers? I'm going to be making the connections by hand and ridged tubing may be harder to deal with.

[Cjadamec]

Without the tubing tool you can use the hot water method. Which is simply dipping the end of the tube in hot water for a few seconds then pushing the softened tube onto the fitting. Its a little cumbersome in the woods and a little bit harder to keep the lines tight. Its how I did my 50 taps. It took me about 4 hours to run 1000ft of 3/16, cut in drop lines, and set 26 taps for one full run. I pre-made my drop lines with tee's and taps already installed before going out into the woods to limit the amount of fittings I had to deal with.

You will need either the tubing tool or hot water for pretty much any tubing for sap.

[maple flats]

For those with a small operation it works even better to put a 50/50 mix of water and glycerine hot in a thermos. Pack it at about 130-140F, after preheating the thermos. Then stick the last inch only of the tubing in the hot mixture for about 5-6 seconds and push the tube onto the fitting. As the mix cools, just ad a second or 2 at a time to get good results. When you get to about 12 seconds it's time to go reheat the mix. When finished, store the mix, no need to throw it out unless it got dirty. The mixture will work far better than plain water and glycerine is cheap at a drug store.

[maple flats]

Rather than a Y to split a line to send sap to 2 tanks, you will be better going to one, then make an overflow to go to the next. If you try to split the flow for half to go each way, your odds of getting half each way are zero to none. Well, maybe a thousand to one.
To rig an overflow, just make to tight hole near the top of tank #1 and put a piece of tubing, friction fit in the hole, to carry any overflow to #2 and then maybe even #3 if needed. To get a friction fit, drill a test hole in something similar to what your tank is made of, and try, it must be snug or it will leak or fall out. If need be, go 1 size bigger or smaller to get the right fit.
Do not run any Y's in your lateral lines. Also, as long as you have the slope, run 15-20 taps on a line in 3/16 (up to 25-28 if need be), not just 5 or 6. With at least 15 you will attain vacuum very soon after the flow starts, with 5 or 6, it would take far longer to get the vacuum. Since you are putting gravity to work, make it work as hard as it can.

[KJamesJR]

Rather than a Y to split a line to send sap to 2 tanks, you will be better going to one, then make an overflow to go to the next. If you try to split the flow for half to go each way, your odds of getting half each way are zero to none. Well, maybe a thousand to one.
To rig an overflow, just make to tight hole near the top of tank #1 and put a piece of tubing, friction fit in the hole, to carry any overflow to #2 and then maybe even #3 if needed. To get a friction fit, drill a test hole in something similar to what your tank is made of, and try, it must be snug or it will leak or fall out. If need be, go 1 size bigger or smaller to get the right fit.
Do not run any Y's in your lateral lines. Also, as long as you have the slope, run 15-20 taps on a line in 3/16 (up to 25-28 if need be), not just 5 or 6. With at least 15 you will attain vacuum very soon after the flow starts, with 5 or 6, it would take far longer to get the vacuum. Since you are putting gravity to work, make it work as hard as it can.
This is some quality info. If not for these forums it would be hard to pass this kind of knowledge to up-and-comers hundreds of miles away.

So 15 to 20 taps for gravity flow. Overflow tanks(great idea btw), hot water right fittings and I’m pretty much good to go as far as running tubing is concerned.

Last question; is there any criteria regarding the amount of tubing one would need per tap? At least a good average?