Plumbing an R.O. to supply tank

[Snowmad]

I have a new to me MES Dolly R.O. My supply tank is going to be 20' away in the wood shed. I'm thinking I want to put a brass 4 manifold with shut offs for garden hose on the 6' feed line that came with the RO, then I can run one hose out to my milk bulk tank, one line coming from the concentrate tank for a 2nd pass if needed, and one short line going to a bucket for washing purposes. The 4th line wouldn't have anything on it but I could use it for draining the lines. Is this a good idea or am I going about this all wrong? I want to keep it simple yet not have lines/garden hoses laying all over the sugar house and the less I have to move hoses around the less chances there are of breaking something.

What is the best way to go from a bulk tank valve to a garden hose? I'm thinking a Fernco and fittings down to what I need. Any other ideas? Maybe wrap it in heat tape?

Thanks for any advise!

[Dennis H.]

Not familiar with the MES RO that you are talking about but I would be concerned with using a garden hose for the supply line to the RO.
My concern is will it flow enough to keep the RO supplied with sap or will the RO be starving for sap as it is out flowing the hose, I my self am not sure.

I do under stand trying to limit the number of lines and hoses to and from the RO.

On my RO I have 5 lines connected directly to the RO and only 4 pipes going thru the wall to the tanks.

[maple flats]

Be careful with ball valves unless you have heat tape on them. A ball valve will burst and leak if closed with sap or water in the ball. I have of sorts, a manifold system, all using ball valves, but my supply hose is 1.5" from my sap tanks, then once it gets to the end near the manifold, it reduces to 1". The other sides are all 1". Mine has sources from the group of 3 sap tanks all into that 1.5" main hose, the permeate tank, a recirculate line from the head tank and a drain. If I ever forget to drain the line, I get a frozen valve which makes it necessary to replace it. However, I generally close the valves at the other end of each line, then drain the hoses, then I close the valves as they manifold and finally I re-open the source valves that are ball valves. (the sap tank valves are all butterfly valves, as well as the permeate tank valve, but the recirculate valve is a ball valve and that gets opened after draining so the ball is empty of sap (or concentrate in this case). Twice now, over the last 5 seasons, I've had to replace a ball valve due to bursting, when it froze and the forecast didn't forecast a freeze.

[Clinkis]

Whatever you choose to do I would stay away from using garden hoses. These are often made with very low grade and often recycled material that is definitely not food grade (often not even potable water grade) and can leave off flavours in your syrup. Go with the clear braided or white pvc pipe. They are relatively cheap and easy to work with. Anything brass is usually avoided now too. You can use white pvc pipe and ball valves to make manifolds for connecting various lines. Again cheap and easy to work with. You also want to be able to flush any lines that will be carrying concentrate as the residues will spoil and contaminate the lines very quickly. If lines need to be disconnected you can use camlock fittings.

[hookhill]

We have done it a few different ways. A four manifold system seems to be a good idea. That way you can shut off and on any of the tanks right from the ro room. We use pvc pipe with quick disconnects to feed the ro pump. At the end of the boil all the different pipes get disconnected and drained. Heat tape is used on the valves that are on the tank. I was thinking of switching over to black poly to feed the ro. PVC is less stable when exposed to the elements but it is rigid and can be run straight with no bellies.

[Snowmad]

Dave, do you have pictures of your manifold? Since the line feeding my RO from the factory is only 3/4, I shouldn't need anything larger should I?

Clinkis, cheap and easy was what I had in mind and garden hose and pre made manifolds fit that bill. I hear you though, nothing is ever cheap or simple. Looks like I need to spend the day at the hardware store. Think I should use PVC ball valves?

Anyone using PEX? Would that be easier in the long run?

Thanks guys!

[Clinkis]

PVC ball valves are relatively cheap and easy to work with. I use tons of them in the woods and in the sugar house. As mentioned you need to make sure they are drained if they are going to freeze. . If using the threaded versions be careful not to over tighten them as they can break easily. If using the glued version this won’t be an issue. I usually keep a few spares on hand too just in case.

I have used pex for some of my RO plumbing and a few things too and it works pretty good. Use the plastics fittings if you are trying to stay away from brass. Also there are different grades of pex. Some are food grade and some are just potable water grade. There still seems to be some gray area when it comes to sap handling as what is acceptable and what is not and it varys on the jurisdiction. In my area potable water grade used to be fine for sap handling and food grade for sap processing. But I believe new rules going forward are everything has to be food grade.

Over the past couple years I’ve been gradually converting everything to food grade materials and it can be challenging. Especially trying to determine what is food grade and what is potable water grade. Although if you are not selling syrup it’s not as big of a concern.

[Russell Lampron]

I use PVC pipe and until this year plastic ball valves. I switched them out for stainless valves this year. I built a 4 valve manifold near the inlet to my RO so that I can switch between tanks. All of the tanks are high enough so that they completely drain into the RO. All of my valves are inside the heated RO room. The valves on the tanks that are out in the weather are usually left open so freezing isn't much of an issue. When I'm done boiling, the raw sap and concentrate tanks and the pipes out of them are empty. I wash my RO before I close up for the night so that I can flush the permeate through it if I know that there is going to be a hard freeze.

[softmaple]

i have 4 hoses. 1 1'" feed hose, 1 1/2 return feed to adjust pressure for the before pressure pump. 1 1/2 product and 1 1/2 permeate. also once the product comes from the RO it goes through a 3 way ball valve that directs the flow either back to the holding tank for the feed tank to the evaporator. I use milk hose from parts department. best price ive found. http://www.partsdeptonline.com/12-BLUE-STRIPE-MILK-HOSE/productinfo/64797M/ROLL%20100FT/

[red maples]

PVC, just match to size of the pipe to the machine... 1/2 inch to 1/2 inch, 1 inch to inch what ever it has on it.

[maple flats]

Dave, do you have pictures of your manifold? Since the line feeding my RO from the factory is only 3/4, I shouldn't need anything larger should I?

Clinkis, cheap and easy was what I had in mind and garden hose and pre made manifolds fit that bill. I hear you though, nothing is ever cheap or simple. Looks like I need to spend the day at the hardware store. Think I should use PVC ball valves?

Anyone using PEX? Would that be easier in the long run?

Thanks guys!
Sorry, no picture and right now it's all under a lot of snow. If you still want a picture in a week or 2, I should have it opened up by then. It is nothing fancy, just tee's and valves. All of the "manifold" valves are insert type ball valves, lead free brass, the butterfly valves are SS, from Brewer's Hardware.

[Snowmad]

So, I've made my manifold, now I'm not sure where/how to mount it. I'll want to have it close to the floor level, so when I open the valve from my bulk tank to the RO it will fill the line so it will prime easier, right? How well do the pumps on the R.O. machine prime typically? All I've done is run it last spring when I got it to put the preservative in it and it seemed to suck out of a 5 gallon bucked OK so I assume they do self prime to some degree. For convenience I'd like to mount it on the wall at about 5' high but I'm thinking that wouldn't work as well as mounting it down closer to the floor.

[Russell Lampron]

My inlet manifold is at the level of the inlet to the feed pump. I built my valve manifold and ran the pipes from the sap, concentrate and permeate through the walls into it. It supports itself when everything is connected. My output valve panel is mounted at eye level. Feed pumps do self prime but will sometimes get air bound and have to be bled.