Solar charger for 12v battery running shurflo

[KReinisch]

Who out there is running a solar charger on there battery and shurflo pump. If you are. I would love some information.

Thanks,
Kevin

[jmayerl]

I have a 4048 with a 12v deep cycle battery. Added a coleman 18watt solar charger last year and didn't really notice any improvement. So I would go bigger.

[Biz]

I ran an 80W solar charger on my 4008 pump and it helped a lot, especially in sunny weather, but the battery would go dead during those 3-4 day cloudy stretches. I think I swapped out the battery 2 or maybe 3 times over the season to recharge. I will go 100W or 125W size next time. The pump only draws about 18 watts but you need a charger several times larger than that to get you through the warm, cloudy stretches.

Dave

[Robert K]

Go bigger, 60 to 80 will keep up on sunny days, but not enough all around. I have a 100 watt that I am going to try this year. I am using a 2088 , it sure savespulling the battery everyday to charge.

[MISugarDaddy]

Is there any particular brand of panel any of you would recommend? Any brand that a person should steer clear of? I am sure you get what you pay for. Thanks.
Gary

[blurr95]

Are you guys able to have your solar panels close to your pump and battery. If not how far apart are they. I want to set up a solar panel for my shurflo, but I am in the woods quite a ways. Can some of you guys show some pics of your solar set up, and or describe what you are using.

Thanks Jason

[Biz]

I have one of my pumps in the woods and the solar panel is located in the field about 250' away. I just used some AC extension cords that I had and made adaptors using replacement extension cord parts. The charger is located near the battery and pump. Worked really well.

Dave

[maple flats]

Brand does not matter for a panel to charge a 12V deep cycle battery. However having had lots of experience with solar (6320 watts at the sugarhouse and 1710 watts at my home) there are 2 things to help most. Have a panel or panels totaling more watts than the running watts, like 8x or more, and use a charge controller (CC). For charging a simple single 12V battery the CC can be a PWM, (pulse width modulated), which is far cheaper than a MPPT (maximum power point tracking) CC. If you don't use enough panel, the battery will need supplemental charging, if you use too much, without a CC you will cook the battery. If a pump runs on 20 watts, I'd go 150 watts minimum panel with a PWM CC. Make sure the voltage on the panel(s) is 15V up to maybe 20V, if too low voltage the PWM cc can not charge effectively.
When you hook up the CC program it to charge to 14-14.5V, not 12V.
Then set the panel (s) where it will get good sun at least 4 hrs a day, and keep snow off it. While it helps to face the panel to solar south, that is not as important as once thought. It can face anywhere from SE to SW and do well. While I'm not a fan of Chinese products in general, they actually do get good marks for solar. A PWM charge controller will cost between $15-24, solar panels should run about $1/watt, but to get the panels for under $1/watt, you need to go to larger panels, the smaller sizes tend to cost far more/watt. Don't go for the harbor frt or northern equipment ones, way over priced. Just search 12V solar panels and go by delivered price. If you go with a higher than 18-19V output panel, you need to use a MPPT CC .

[SeanD]

Don't go for the harbor frt or northern equipment ones, way over priced.

Good to know!

[blurr95]

Thanks for the replies. Biz, do you remember the gauge of the extension cords. Maple flats, awesome answer, thanks.

Jason

[Biz]

Just standard 14 or 16 gauge extension cords will do, but it depends on how long the cords are and what size charger or amps of charging current. If you let me know that I can run some numbers. You want to keep the voltage loss low, like a volt or less, for best results, or charge time will be longer.

I have used "Newpowa" solar panels with chargers from eBay, they are simple and cheap but seem to do the job.

Dave

[MISugarDaddy]

Thanks Dave, as others have said already, good information. Based on your experience, you are one that should know a great deal about solar.
Gary

[maple flats]

For a charge controller (CC) this looks good https://www.amazon.com/ALLPOWERS-Charger-Controller-Intelligent-Regulator/dp/B01MU0WMGT/ref=pd_sim_86_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01MU0WMGT&pd_rd_r=Z2PYNJB2KMN75BC9AF84&pd_rd_w=ex5O7&pd_rd_wg=2VIYV&psc=1&refRID=Z2PYNJB2KMN75BC9AF84
Then search out the Newpowa 150 or 170 watt 12V panels, they look good too.
If you need an extension cord to set the panel farther from the battery and CC use a long enough MC4 ext. cord, rather than several connected together. The fewer connections the better.
A word of caution, solar panels are generating power anytime light is on the panel and it is DC power. DC is unlike AC, it can jump a very large gap once started, so, never unplug an MC4 or any other solar connection with light on the panels, either tip the panel face down, or cover with a dark colored blanket if you need to unplug the DC. If you do need to unplug a DC4 it can be done by releasing the catches using a screw driver on both sides, but it's far easier to use: https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-TOOL-MC4-Solar-Panel-ASSEMBLY/dp/B00BCWZFN2/ref=pd_bxgy_86_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00BCWZFN2&pd_rd_r=Z2PYNJB2KMN75BC9AF84&pd_rd_w=KLuN9&pd_rd_wg=2VIYV&psc=1&refRID=Z2PYNJB2KMN75BC9AF84
You do not need nor want an inverter unless there is an absolute need to run something on 110-120V AC or 220-240V AC, converting wastes energy thru heat generation, you are far more efficient staying on DC when you can. If you want to run a light too, get a 12V DC light but run it only when needed. LED is most efficient there too.
If done right, the 12V deep cycle battery can remain in the woods all season in many cases, the exception will be if you fail to keep snow off the panels or if you have too many days that are extremely cloudy in a row.
Just as a bit of trivia, back when I only had 4 panels 185 watts each on my sugarhouse system we had a "super moon". I looked at the CC and it was making 200 watts at about 9:30 at night. We had snow cover also, which helps unless it is on the panels, snow on the ground helps reflect both sun and moon light to the panels.
Be sure to check the electrolyte level once a month, distilled water will need to be added periodically.

[Biz]

Good stuff, thanks Dave K.

The wiring has more loss than I thought. 100' of 14 gauge wire has a total resistance of about .5 ohms round trip. The voltage loss across a 100' extension cord for a 5 amp charge current is then 2.5 volts loss (volts loss = amps times ohms). A 200' cord would be double that, 5 volts loss. Hmmm, a bit high. The solar panels put out enough extra voltage to compensate, up to a point, but maximum charge current will be less with the longer wires, and battery charge time will be longer. Hope I didn't explode any heads with all the numbers! :)

Dave

[whity]

So we are running 3 pumps off 12V deep cycle batteries. We have solar panels but aren't able to charge the batteries enough. I have to change them out almost daily. What size solar panels and controllers do I need? We are running 2 4008 shurflo and 1 4048 shurflo. On a thermostat and 3 way ball valve to go to gravity when the pump shuts down.

[maple flats]

Read my answers in replies #8 and 13. To know what size panel you need to know the running watts, then get a panel or panels to get 8 times that or more. Use a charge controller and as long as the panel is 20V or less you can use a much cheaper PWM controller. (remember, if you connect 2 or more panels in series, you must add the voltage, if you tie 2 or more in parallel, the voltage stays the same, but the amps get added. Never use 2 panels unless they are exactly the same, if mixed and matched, the whole array will perform at whatever is the poorest panel as far as the specs go. For solar, do not try to do your own wiring on the DC from panel to charge controller. That wire should all be factory made MC4 connections unless you have the official crimp tool and terminals for MC4, (if older panels, the older MC3 is ok too but do not try to mix them without a connector made to join them. If anyone has the right 10ga wire for solar and wants to crimp their own, I have the tool and would loan it, but do not try using UF or even THHN of the proper gauge for solar, the jacket is vastly different. Also, if you are making connections use a good dielectric grease to get a good connection on the wiring from the charge controller to the battery. Everything you can do to get the best connection is real important in solar.

[blurr95]

For a charge controller (CC) this looks good https://www.amazon.com/ALLPOWERS-Charger-Controller-Intelligent-Regulator/dp/B01MU0WMGT/ref=pd_sim_86_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01MU0WMGT&pd_rd_r=Z2PYNJB2KMN75BC9AF84&pd_rd_w=ex5O7&pd_rd_wg=2VIYV&psc=1&refRID=Z2PYNJB2KMN75BC9AF84
Then search out the Newpowa 150 or 170 watt 12V panels, they look good too.
If you need an extension cord to set the panel farther from the battery and CC use a long enough MC4 ext. cord, rather than several connected together. The fewer connections the better.
A word of caution, solar panels are generating power anytime light is on the panel and it is DC power. DC is unlike AC, it can jump a very large gap once started, so, never unplug an MC4 or any other solar connection with light on the panels, either tip the panel face down, or cover with a dark colored blanket if you need to unplug the DC. If you do need to unplug a DC4 it can be done by releasing the catches using a screw driver on both sides, but it's far easier to use: https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-TOOL-MC4-Solar-Panel-ASSEMBLY/dp/B00BCWZFN2/ref=pd_bxgy_86_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00BCWZFN2&pd_rd_r=Z2PYNJB2KMN75BC9AF84&pd_rd_w=KLuN9&pd_rd_wg=2VIYV&psc=1&refRID=Z2PYNJB2KMN75BC9AF84
You do not need nor want an inverter unless there is an absolute need to run something on 110-120V AC or 220-240V AC, converting wastes energy thru heat generation, you are far more efficient staying on DC when you can. If you want to run a light too, get a 12V DC light but run it only when needed. LED is most efficient there too.
If done right, the 12V deep cycle battery can remain in the woods all season in many cases, the exception will be if you fail to keep snow off the panels or if you have too many days that are extremely cloudy in a row.
Just as a bit of trivia, back when I only had 4 panels 185 watts each on my sugarhouse system we had a "super moon". I looked at the CC and it was making 200 watts at about 9:30 at night. We had snow cover also, which helps unless it is on the panels, snow on the ground helps reflect both sun and moon light to the panels.
Be sure to check the electrolyte level once a month, distilled water will need to be added periodically.

Great info, thanks. If I use this controller and the 170 watt panel, would I put the controller and battery by the panels and run wire out to the pump in the woods. Would 12 ga. wire be enough to go 250'-300', it may not be that far but I am not sure. How would be the best way to set this up. Then I would also need to get the mc4 connectors, crimping tool, and the tools to take them apart if needed. I understand I may not need the crimper and other tool, but I have found it's easier to just spend the little bit of money and get the right stuff to start with. Lot of questions and I am sorry about that, I just really want to get this solar set up this year. I wanted to do it last year but thought I was to far away.

Thanks Jason

[maple flats]

How many watts or amps does the pump draw? Is it 12V? Give me those numbers and I'll calculate it. In general, the higher the voltage, the less you lose, as such, running 12V is a big loser. I doubt 250'-300' is even possible with 12ga. I'll calculate it when you tell me what it draws. This is what I use: https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
If you are 250' away, the distance is 500' because the power must go to the pump and then back to the battery. If you have 1A draw, on 12V DC and a distance of 500', you lose over 10% of the voltage on 8 ga. copper. Generally 2-3% is considered max. acceptable, at that distance you lose enough that the pump may not even run or it will not perform according to specs. If you must go that far, look into a step up and a step down transformer, it would cost less than going even heavier on the wire ga.

[blurr95]

How many watts or amps does the pump draw? Is it 12V? Give me those numbers and I'll calculate it. In general, the higher the voltage, the less you lose, as such, running 12V is a big loser. I doubt 250'-300' is even possible with 12ga. I'll calculate it when you tell me what it draws. This is what I use: https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
If you are 250' away, the distance is 500' because the power must go to the pump and then back to the battery. If you have 1A draw, on 12V DC and a distance of 500', you lose over 10% of the voltage on 8 ga. copper. Generally 2-3% is considered max. acceptable, at that distance you lose enough that the pump may not even run or it will not perform according to specs. If you must go that far, look into a step up and a step down transformer, it would cost less than going even heavier on the wire ga.

It's a shurflo 4048 I think, maybe 4008. I will have to check. Sounds like I may not have been wrong about being to far away.

Thanks Jason

[maple flats]

Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Aweking-Waterproof-Converter-Regulator-Transformer/dp/B06X1BR5G6/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1515667310&sr=8-12&keywords=12+dc+transformer and this: https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Converter-Regulator-Transformer-Waterproof/dp/B01LYK6G2Y/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1515667310&sr=8-21&keywords=12+dc+transformer
may help. Those are just the first DC/DC transformers I found, you can search for more. With those 2 you could have the solar panel 250' away, put the CC, battery and pump close to each other and only lose 3.3% on 12 ga., that is about the best, unless you step up to a higher voltage or use 10 Ga wire. From Amazon you could then buy 10 lengths of 10 ga. MC4 wire (50' each) for under $25 a coil. While 2 lengths of 250' MC4 would be better, you may not be able to get that at a great price. The MC4 connectors are truly very high quality, and are waterproof.

[NJG]

So glad to have found this thread. I've been looking into solar for my remote 4048 pump as well. I'm only around on the weekends so I need a set up to last all week without supplemental charging or swapping out a battery. The more I look into solar the more confused I get. This is what I'm thinking so far.....if I'm wrong I hope someone can let me know!

My 4048 pulls 3 amps when pumping water and 1.6 amps when running dry. Since it seems that the pump pulls both sap and air when on the mainline, I'm averaging this out to be 2.3 amps (27.6 Watts) over the course of a week. I'll also be running a temp controller this year and expect the pump to run an average of 12 hours a day.

I ran a test on the 120 ah battery I have and while running water through it (3 amps) the battery lasted 41 hours before dropping to 10.3 volts and the pump shut off. If I'm doing the math right, at an average of 2.3 amps (27.6 Watts) I would likely get 52 hours off one battery.

Here is where I get fuzzy on real life expectations of solar. Assuming I have a 150 watt panel and 4 hours of sun a day here in northern Wisconsin, if that panel puts out 50% of its actual rating, I would gain 300 Watts each day. Does that sound correct? My biggest worry at this point is how much the diffused shadows of the trees in the woods will reduce the efficiency of the panel.

If I'm gaining 300 Watts a day and loosing 331.2 watts by running the pump for 12 hours a day, I have a loss of 31.2 Watts every day. If I start the week at noon on Sunday with a fresh (1440 Watt, 120 ah) battery and loose 31.2 watts a day, I should have 1248 watts left over at noon on Sunday. This should give me plenty of wiggle room for those stretches of cloudy days.

How does this crazy plan sound so far? I'll take all the help I can get!

Thanks

[Biz]

There are so many variables, you could spend a lot of time trying to get everything right.... But I think the 150W panel will be more than adequate. No need to over think it. I know some who use 100W panels and never have to charge the battery during a season. Battery charge current varies according to battery charge state and will be less as battery nears full charged. so the watt-hours calculation isn't simple. And solar charging has a lot of factors like sun angle, panel angle, shading, type of panel, etc. I would just hook it up and see how it works out. My guess is 150W will be more than enough. I am going to try a 100W panel this year. My 70W panel wasn't quite enough last year for those extended sap runs. Neither was the 40W panel that I tried before that :)

Pump current draw will probably be on the lower end of the range since I believe the high power is only for high pressure/flow, not vacuum and pumping it a short distance downhill to the tank. My 4008 12-volt pumps draw less than 1.5A on a vacuum line regardless of flow, even though it is rated at 7.5A max. Yours would draw a little more.

Dave

[NJG]

Thanks for the info, I appreciate all the help I can get. Any thoughts on Poly vs Mono vs Amorphous?

Nick

[Biz]

I like the polycrystalline panels. They are cheaper and perform better if it is cloudy. Cloudy weather is when you need charging the most, because cloudy usually means sap (and the pump) is running overnight and you need charging the most. There are articles online that discuss pros and cons of the panels.

Dave