how to use leaders end line ring

[dhbiker1]

Just wondering what is the correct way to set up the tubing with leaders end line ring. http://65.181.134.139/images/products/4738.jpg

Also, is there anyone who makes tubing tools, specifically one to insert fittings, and then sells them at a much lower price. Just a quick look at them seemed like one could be fabbed pretty easy, but i figure with the prices they go for someone has made there own version.

[Mike]

I put my tubing thru the hole around the tree into the right insert....I then put a drop on the top one....Lapierre has a good price on the insert tool.......The maple guys should also have a good price....Leader and CDL are out to lunch.....WAY over priced on there stuff.....

[dhbiker1]

Seems wierd, does that mean that the the fitting on the right (horizontal one) faces the uphill direction so that the sap goes out around the tree and then down the hill?

[maple flats]

Yes, sap goes from tap down to the endring L, around the tree and then down to the tank. This keeps flow moving everything thru the entire line with no dead spots. I also use it in reverse with the drop line out the bottom at the low end of a line when i am on a small group of taps with no main line. This way I can adjust the tinsion of the line at the collection barrel. When I do this I drill a hole that fits the 5/16 tubing into the barrel tightly and then cover the barrel with a semi tight top of either aluminum or plywood depending on if it is a half barrel or a full, laying on its side. Making the top loose enough to breathe lets any heat escape to keep the sap cooler.

[Fred Henderson]

You are going to have to draw me a pictures cause I still don't understand what you are doing. I would have a lot more tubing if I knew how to use the stuff.

[brookledge]

Fred
As you look at the picture you took.
Start by pushing the 5/16 through the hole and around the tree clockwise and onto the barbed fitting.
Now put a piece on the other barbed fitting that is your drop line. When you pull the tap you plug it on the other side
Keith

[maple flats]

In normal use you slide the ring on the tubing so that the barb opposite the ring points towards where the end of tubing will be after you go around the tree with it and the other barb points up, hooked to a drop. In fact I make that part ahead (make the drop / tap and endring fitting at home at the table, just like I do the regular taps / tees ahead). Good luck. Just try it at any tree or post without using your tools to actually insert. Making the drops ahead I found it easier to re design my 2 hand tool because sometimes it was hard to get things lined up to insert. On my tool I ground off the weld on 1 of the bolt heads holding the pivot points to the linkage, I removed this bolt and replaced it with a hitch pin and hairpin cotter (or drill out a bolt and add a hairpin cotter). Then it the handle wants to be around the tubing I pull the hitch pin, go around the tubing, re hook the pivot point and then set it back as originally. If you had a 1 hand tool this would not be necessary ever. I found this was needed more if I was using an end ring at both ends of a 5/16 line as I described in my earlier post, on the first end you can just pull extra tubing and get the ring out far enough to align the fitting while making the insert squeeze.

[Fred Henderson]

Why do you want the sap to have to run all the way around the tree? I have been just putting a piece of rope(nylon) thru the ring and around the tree. Leaving it back several inches for future adjustment.

[maple flats]

That sounds like it would work but is not how it was designed. If you have a 1 tap I see yours as being good but if 2-3-4 tap with the tubing going around the tree you just use regular drops with a tee for installation and adjustment is easy either tighter or looser. Yes I am familiar with a tautline hitch. Either will work, watch for needed rope replacement long before tubing needs replacing.

[Father & Son]

Am I understanding Maple Flats that you can adjust tension on the lateral with the end line ring? When you slide it on the tubing to add tension it will stay in place? Does it work the same with rigid and semi-rigid tubing? The reason I ask is I going to try some tubing for next year and I just found a SP-11 that if time permits may be this year but it more feasable for next year with all the other undone projects that are higher priority.

Jim

[Fred Henderson]

That sounds like it would work but is not how it was designed. If you have a 1 tap I see yours as being good but if 2-3-4 tap with the tubing going around the tree you just use regular drops with a tee for installation and adjustment is easy either tighter or looser. Yes I am familiar with a tautline hitch. Either will work, watch for needed rope replacement long before tubing needs replacing.

I have said it many times, that I would love to attend a tube installation class, starting at the bottom. Dealers only want to help someone that is going to buy 2 or 3 K worth of the stuff. By the time I get it all figured out I will be to old to do sugaring anymore.

[royalmaple]

When you need to tighten up the end just slide the end line ring further away from the last tree and you tighten up the line, it is a pretty tight fit so it kinda binds up when you add tension to it. They don't slip on the tubing very sloppy as you might imagine. And at the same time you are just making a bigger loop around your last tree. I use the ones that only have one barb. So you still cut in your end drop, but I use the one way t's on the last line so the sap doesn't have to sit between the end line ring and drop. THat way if you need to tighten the lateral you are not restricted. Imagine if you had your drop attached to the loop and you needed to tighten the latteral. You might need a 4 foot drop next year.

[maple flats]

Royal is right, slide it farther or closer to the tree for adjusting tension. You will not get too much tension so loosening is only if you need to release tension for something. I also release tention during off season but only a little. If you are interested in seeing an install you are welcome to come to my bush, I will be installing an additional location during the summer. If you are interested i will let you know. If you would rather attend a class they are offered. I have been to 3 or 4 in the last 4 years. Basic design says keep it systematic and don't run every which way, but this only works well if you have a good bush to work with. What I have is too few sugars in an area so my existing is rather random but I am actively seeking to find a good stand to rent, in fact I spoke with a landowner with a few acres of good side hill woods and we are going to walk his woods soon. I also located a med steep roadside hill with fairly good sugar maple population and I went to the county tax map dept today to locate the landowners so I can ask them. Both of these locations are too steep to do much else except maple tubing. When and if I get permission I will let you know. If i am too far away for you, just ask other producers in your locale and I am sure they would be glad to get a few hours of help in exchange for some guidance. If your layout allows I think the best set up is like a fishbone skelitin for the main and latterels and then have the 5/16 lines extend up only from the side latterels and never down. This way you can get equipment into the entire area. If the bush allows a good spacing for latterels is 100'. I hope I have not confused you too much. After the design is laid out the actual install is rather simple with a little practice and a few tricks. If you are going to set up vac it is best to have a wet line dry line set up, which is what I will be doing if I find a big enough location to warrant vac. If you go to the Verona maple seminars in Jan they seem to always have a demo of tubing and the summer tour I took showed a bush that had been professionally laid out and installed. One seminar I went to showed that it is usually more economical to keep the lines rather short and straight. I tent to weave back and forth too much to pick up all trees and he showed that it really seldom saves tubing and was cheaper to make 2 lines straighter rather than one meandering all over. If you choose to look local I suggest you drive around til you see a set up that looks like it was well laid out and then ask to study it and maybe help with maintainence with the owner. When I install new I now put up the main over under wet dry lines and the laterels. Then from each laterel I will hang a spinning dispensing spool from the laterel and walk up hill past the trees to be tapped, weaving slightly to help hold pitch as i tap. Try to go 5 taps/line in most cases and the spacing between lines will be determined by how many taps can be installed in that section.

[maplecrest]

the best thing to do with an end it ring is throw it away. the sap has to travel all the way around the tree. last to thaw out . hard to clean. junk jeff

[royalmaple]

All you have to do is use the 1 way t's and the sap does not sit in the back of the tree at all.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I agree, throw then away. Leader and several other companies manufacture them. They would probably be fine with vac as long as you have proper amount of vac at each ring, but for gravity, not a good idea. I use a good heavy duty "Y" at each end tree and if it is just one tap, I put the tap close to the "Y" so the sap will run right into "Y" and down the line and if I am putting 2 taps, I try to a tap on each side close to each branch of the "Y". At the end of the laterals, I try to bring them into a mainline if at all possible and usually it is not a problem at a tree. I then use the D&G End Y Fork and run a piece of tubing around the tree and this eliminates any pressure at all on the mainline. I love the End Forks, especially the D&G. They are a little more, but well worth it. Then the sap runs basically in a straight line into the mainline or they work great when running one lateral line into another or keeping longer stretches of lateral lines tight. Definitely a great invention in my opinion. I know others may disagree and some don't want to use them because they are around 50 cents each. Lapierre also makes them, but I don't like them nearly as good as the D&G.

[small_operator]

Because I take some of my lines down each season next to the house, I like using the hollow core poly rope for those end lines. the rope slides over the tubing before you put the last spout on the tubing. That way I can tension it by tying tighter around the tree or just pull more tubing thru the rope, which acts like a chinese hancuffs and grabs it. At the end of the season, I just untie the rope and coil up the tubing. the rope also can be used to tie up the rolled up tubing.
Gary

[Sugarmaker]

To End ring or not to end ring , that is the question.

I did not use them last year but will be trying them this year. I fastened the tubing to the tree wit a dry wall screw and I was not real pleased with this method. ( All road side trees, 4 trees in a line with 3 - 4 taps each on gravity.)
I will try using CDL blind tees, CDL single barb end rings and CDL hook over end rings.
Goal is to be able to:
1. easily and quickly tighten the tension to eliminate sags. I think the sliding end ring on the tubing should do this.
2. to be able to take down the lines after the season with out cutting the fittings. I am going to try the hook over fittings for this. These fittings are designed for a drop to be added. I will not have a drop going in to them because the piece of tubing coming from the last drop where the blind tee is will not have sap in it. And it is running down hill towards the bottom tree any way.
3. try to have all the sap running all down hill around the tree.

These may or may not work but since I am fairly new to tubing I am going to try them and see if that can solve these issues.


Regards,
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

I did a tubing trial in the front yard tonight with the end rings and fittings. As usual the stuff doesn't work like you planned, so back to the drawing board. I do have some new ideas, so I will try them tomorrow.

What season or event does the evaporator fairy show up? ;) Mine is going to look pretty shabby compared to all the new units going in to sugarhouses around here!!!!

Chris

[PATheron]

sugarmaker- Doesnt look like anything shabby going on at your establishment to me. All ive monkeyed with is maplepro stuff. The first end fitting was a solid ring you put on the lat at the last tree then went around the tree and put the line on the fitting. You could slide it to tighten the tube and it worked good but you cant take the line down. The ones im using now just clip in. I think I like them better becouse you could just unclip and take lat down. Real handy if doing more releas cutting. I think you could use them to tighten too bu maybe if tighten a lot you could put a tie wrap on the lat so the fitting doesnt slip, it might stay anyway. Theron

[royalmaple]

Chris, what if you took a piece of hollow rope, and slid that on the end of your lateral up say 6inches or so. The wrap the rope around the last tree and tie it off. Cap the end of the latteral so no air gets in. If it is a big tree and you want to put on more than one tap, then wrap the tubing around the tree as well. Then at the other end, do the same. You can tighten that up as tight as you need to by pulling more tubing through the finger trap the rope makes once you have it tied at both ends. And at the end of the year you can take that all down in a few mins and you won't have anything to cut.

[Sugarmaker]

Theron,
Great minds think alike I did try a simple zip tie and it will work fairly well to "hold" a sliding "hook over" fitting. Once zipped on to the tubing it was not able to be slid up or down. But it did hold. So I have another idea too. What about these plastic hose clamps that would grip the tube not slip but might be able to be released, moved and re tightened. While sketching some ideas and playing with some other plastic clips I found laying on the work bench, I sketched a new fitting that might work.

Royal Maple,
I am not sure of the hollow rope? Sounds like you have used this and I would be interested in seeing this set up. I will have from 3 to 4 taps per tree, so the tubing will go around the tree.

Regards,
Chris

[royalmaple]

I think the rope will work the easiest for you. I'll try to rig something up and take a few pictures of what I mean.

Chipa uses the rope on his neighbors woods, he might be able to give some pointers. Chip?

Brookledge uses the rope to.

Basically your making a latteral with no mainline entrance, except into your tote. So if you saw how one is tied up you'd be able to do it on your trees.

[Sugarmaker]

Some pictures:


http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4894/sideviewofcasbohmloopgv1.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sideviewofcasbohmloopgv1.jpg)


http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9950/2cdlendringsandloopoftuiu7.th.jpg (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2cdlendringsandloopoftuiu7.jpg)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6910/cdlblindteeandcdlhookovyo7.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cdlblindteeandcdlhookovyo7.jpg)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8432/39galtotepalletandbungyah0.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=39galtotepalletandbungyah0.jpg)

[Sugarmaker]

Some more pictures:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9130/memoryflexdropsje8.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=memoryflexdropsje8.jpg)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7948/woodtotesandtubingli6.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=woodtotesandtubingli6.jpg)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8028/uncleclairssapbucketslz0.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncleclairssapbucketslz0.jpg)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/318/palletcuttingstationtk9.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=palletcuttingstationtk9.jpg)

Hope these show some of the things I have been working on.
I know the Loop I developed uses some extra fittings but it seems to work well! It allows me to adjust the tension and then take the tubing down with out any problems.
The old sap buckets at probably 100 years old and were in an old falling down grainery of my Uncles. These were given to me for display in our sugarhouse by my cousin David Casbohm.

Regards,
Chris

[Pete33Vt]

Your setup looks to be about right Chris. It looks like alot of time and thinking went into it. It should work great.

[PATheron]

That does look like its perfect for what your doing. I like how you can tighten it and remove it easy thats nice. Those hook end rings are great I think. Theron

[Parker]

I think that is a very good way to do it,,,at that is a nice looking sugarhouse!

[Sugarmaker]

Thanks for the comments guys,

I have had the tubing up for several days and rechecked the tension this morning and it was still very taught. This tubing (laterals) is the stiffer 30P type Leader tubing which does not pinch at the slip rings like the softer Memory Flex type. The thing I found that the end ring or the hook over type fitting does not do is to get the varying angle of the tubing to be directly in line with the dead end coming around the tree. The loop I have shown here allows the hook fitting to slide along the loop and find its own correct angle location, which can vary as you move the "CEC Loop" (reg trademark);) up or down the lateral.

On the opposite end of the line I will use just the CDL hook over fitting to end the tuning around the tree and let it come up tight against the tree Very secure and quick to remove.

You may have noticed that I am also using the CDL blind tee (green) to keep sap out of the dead end of the line. I believe if I am somewhat careful in setting the drops that I will not have any sap trying to go up hill in the system.

I will probably put this CEC Loop at the down end of the line near the tote so that I can tighten it as required and not have to walk to the upper end.

OK, Now I am looking for a very simple way to verify that I have somewhere near the 5% slope ( About 2.5 degree angle) recommended with out having to "sight level" four trees. We have a lot of flat areas and sometimes hard to eyeball the correct pitch.
Thinking about a simple, light "hang on the tubing" device that quickly shows that you have the proper pitch. Open to ideas.

The totes on the pallets worked well last year so I got 40 of them ready to go for 2008. This provides a little weight to the tote so I can have some tension on the tubing coming from the last tree, to minimize sags in that section. ( I will use the memory Flex ftom the bottom tree to the tote)


Regards,
Chris

[royalmaple]

You can pick up a string level for next to nothing and clip it on your lines.

It won't give you degrees, but you can see if you are 1/2 or full bubble out of level etc.

[Jim Brown]

Looks Great Chris! as far as the level thing I bought a sight level at Home Depot for $12.00 or you could use a line level. Run a piece of line from the trees with the line level and then run the tubing to the line.
just a thought

PS,We are going after the RO this weekend leaving tomorrow afternoon.

Jim

[Sugarmaker]

Jim have a safe trip. R.O will work great for all those taps!

Matt, I have a light hang on line level and may try that and find where the bubble lies with the correct slope or adjust the end "hangers" to show level when at the correct slope.

Chris

[murferd]

Chris,

Do you have any more pictures of your pallet cutting setup? Looks interesting!

[Sugarmaker]

Murray,
I will try to take some more pictures of the pallet reduction station.
It is really an old saw horse cut down and added onto to allow me to position pallets for cutting (with a chainsaw). I just added some more support structure to the thing cause it gets a lot of abuse and not much attention.
Its still a painfully slow way to get syrup wood.
I think I can burn wood in the evaporator at about the same rate as I can cut it. So that means I spend 60-70 hours per year cutting pallets, for 100 + gallons of syrup. That does not include the time to get them and then handle the wood pieces about 7 times.

Please remind me again in a week or so If I forget.:)

Chris

[maplehound]

Don't you get alot of nails with those pallets? I found a place near me that makes trusses. They fill bins every day with 2x4's and 2x6's that are between saw dust size to 3 and a half feet long. I can fill my pickup every day with 2 footers just for the taking. I expect they will burn hot and fast, and best of all no nails.

[Sugarmaker]

Wow, Maple Hound you better stock up on those pieces. Sounds like a gold mine.
Yes we get nails. I do clean them out of the grates each day which takes a few minutes but not bad work. Folks coming to the sugarhouse always comment about the nails. So I turned it in to a factual event;) I get approx a 3 gallon (old type) sap bucket full of nails for each 10 gallons of syrup that we make. This has held true for the past 4 years that I have been watching the relationship of syrup to nails.:) So I am not sure if I am producing syrup or nails!

Nails aren't a bad thing. Just another aspect of they way we boil sap on the hill. ( BTW we can almost see Cleveland from our place which is 80 miles away to the west; just another tidbit of un-useful information that spues forth from these frolicking fingers:)
I get the pallets for free at local business. I charge the mileage to the maple and honey business. I try to bring a load home when ever I drive the truck (we call it the gas hog) to work.

Chris

[royalmaple]

Chris-

I burned 4 or 5 rounded (8 yard dump truck) loads of pallet boards broken down in the SH and in my wood furnace in the barn, I use a simple magnet that I use on job sites to go over my ashes and I put the nails and metal do dads into 5 gallon buckets.

I saved them all and brought them in with a load of scrap metal and it didn't make me rich but I had just about 30 bucks in steel. Not a get rich quick scheme but helps. I figure I got to clean the stove ashes anyway.

[maplehound]

WOW Chris I never thought to sell the nails for scrap.