Sizing main line

[Fireman]

Let me paint the picture, then ask the question. Mostly doubting myself with my info at hand. I run a dual guzzler pump in the sugar bush. I have 2- 3/4" lines running about 500' one direction and about 300' another direction. Usually have no problem of running 26-27 inches at the end of the lines. Plenty of vacuum. I am adding a new line running a different direction this year. The plan is to run a wet and dry line out about 300' to a manifold, and branch into two wet lines from there. One line will end up at a little over 400', the other around 500-550' I will be putting in 1 or 2 small sap ladders in the wet lines, maybe 4 or 5 foot high (from reading other posts here, short ladders should be able to be handled with a Guzzler pump). From the pump to the manifold will have roughly 100 taps. After the manifold, the short line will have about 50 taps. The other direction, which will have the ladder, is going to run roughly 80 taps. The ladder may end up right at the manifold, I will know better once I start getting things set up. According to the Cornell vacuum book, 3/4" for both the wet and dry should be sufficient. It just seems like I should be running a 1" dry line to increase the CFM's to the manifold and ladder, or even be running 1" wet and dry. I am really not too concerned with flowing too much sap in the 3/4" line. My other 500' line runs about 150 taps on it and has no problem handling the sap volume on heavy flow days. So my questions, would you run a 3/4" wet with a 3/4" dry, or a 1" over 3/4", or dual 1"? One thing I don't like about 1" wet, I would have to have some different size saddles and fittings to have on hand (not that it is a fortune). Like I said, I am doubting myself, and just looking for input, maybe something I am not thinking about here (the Mrs. says I am pretty forgetful). I want to make sure I have adequate supply, but not overkill either. Thanks for the input!

[maple flats]

Not having experience with guzzler type pumps, I'll only make one comment. With the number of taps total you will have, your wet line should be fine at 3/4". When you go with a wet/dry system, the wet line can move sap completely full and even if need be the dry line can carry some on gusher days. That being said, I do not know if a wet/dry system is used on the guzzler type pumps and if not, you want 1" mains once you get to enough taps to warrant it. The mains are suggested to carry a max of 250 on 3/4", 500 on 1" and 900 max on 1.25. Those are for single line designs, if wet/dry is used in a conventional vacuum system, the wet lines can carry about 2x those numbers, I'm just not sure about wet/dry with a diaphragm pump.

[VT_K9]

We have used the single guzzler pump. They do not have the ability to build a CFM rating to handle a ladder. I would also have to look closer at one running a wet/dry line. We had about a 2000' of mainline to handle 300 taps. The first year we had the guzzler we just put in at the end of the primary mainline and then connected a few lateral mainlines. We used to have several pump stations in the woods and eliminated them with the addition of the guzzler. The following year we eliminated all 1/2" mainline laterals and made them 3/4" in the steeper slopes. Everything else went to 1". The reason was not necessarily tap capacity, rather wanted to have a larger pipe during the freeze periods if sap was caught in the line. It worked great.

Now we have regular vacuum and a few ladders. My primary thoughts on your wet/dry is more joints which can lead to small leaks which have larger impacts on a guzzler than vacuum. Plus that is more space you need to build vacuum before getting high vacuum at the end of the mainlines. Finally the plus to a wet/dry beyond volume is a spare area for sap to flow when the wet line freezes, again a guzzler does not have the CFM to pull sap well, if at all depending on actual pipe diameter.

Mike

[Fireman]

Thanks for the input gentlemen. I believe in an earlier post, Flat Lander said that he used ladders on a diaphragm pump system, that is what I have based being able to do it. I am sure it won't be a perfect setup, but until I can afford a gas powered rotary style pump, it's what I have to go with. With the information I have, and what you guys presented, 3/4" should be fine. And I need to at least try the ladder, and have a plan B in place. I am thinking I need to have a way to isolate the line with the ladder, in case I need to reconstruct it. Basically that would mean running the line higher, and maybe having to use a step ladder to tap. Or put a shur-flo pump at the ladder and have it pump it up. Thanks for the input, I greatly appreciate it.

[n8hutch]

I would skip the wet/dry, use just a single 1" line and use 3/16 tubing for your ladders, that's what I am going to do this year. I went to a 3/16 tubing seminar and it was explained to me that a 3/16 line is much more efficient at lifting sap. I would think somewhere in the 8-12 risers would lift 100 taps handily. Yes I may not have 26" past the ladders but even 20" would be great because I would not tap these trees otherwise.

[maple flats]

In that idea, I tried 3 laterals last year (actually 2017 season) that I put in 3/16 with a conventional vacuum system where those 3 laterals were below the main, they worked fine but I was only lifting about 4-5' max to the main on those 3. I'm know the vacuum on those was lower, but the sap moved fine in them. My system was reading 23-24" at the far end so the 3 lines of 3/16 were likely about 18-20" depending on how much sap vs. air (gases) filled those lines.