Getting ready

[minehart gap]

Hope you all are willing to help me with this. I want to make sure that I have thought of everything and am ready for the season. A little background: I have been making small quantities of maple syrup for a while now but never more than a quart or two and by using stainless steel pots on a wood stove. Also, after 27 years of being landlocked, I have finally persuaded a neighbor to sell a right of way to me for access to my mountain property (30 acres with a mix of maple (red and sugar), hickory, poplar and oaks. This being said, I will be making much more syrup this year than in the past. I plan to have 300 taps to start with the possibility of over 800 on the property.

My property is in the gap of a mountain therefore I have nearly 300 feet of elevation drop and am facing east-northeast so I have availability for gravity flow and a lot of it with early morning sun. I have purchased 300 each of the following: leader 3/16" tees, leader 3/16" stubby spouts and 300 leader check valve spout adapters as well a 5 rolls of 800', 3/16" leader tubing. I recently build a two handed tubing tool. I also have acquired a 600 gallon stainless steel bulk tank with valve (I need to purchase an adapter going from acme fitting to 3/4" hdpe pipe) and a 250 gallon bulk tank without valve and open top. Sap will then travel via. 3/4" pipe to the evaporator that is a 26"x 6' raised flue sap pan and a 26"x 2' syrup pan on a homemade arch which is nearly complete. My plan is for the syrup to exit the evaporator and travel through a homemade Optimizer style cone filter into a stainless steel stock pot with faucet. If syrup is hot enough after filtering, I will bottle it then if not I will reheat and bottle later but store syrup in plastic food grade 5 gal. buckets.

The sugar shack is a 14'x18' timber frame building that will be assembled as soon as the cement floor is cured. The floor is scheduled to be poured next weekend and will have a floor drain centered and 3' from the front of the evaporator. The bulk tank will be in a shed beside the wood shed and the outlet is 54" higher than the floor elevation to allow for gravity flow from sap tank to sap pan.

Please don't hesitate to point anything out or ask anything. I am hoping to have everything ready and would love feedback in case I have overlooked or ignored anything.

[maple flats]

While you are in the early stages, consider setting the tank even higher. That way, when you add a hood and pre-heater in the hood you will have good flow which helps keep air bubbles from blocking the flow.
I have my tank 66" above the floor that the evaporator sits on. I have a hood with a preheater in it and the outlet of the pre-heater is 6" higher than the inlet. Even though I built the pre-heater with 4 vents to get rid of air blocks, I've never had to vent them, the extra elevation does the work.

[minehart gap]

Dave, that can easily be done. Thanks.
Do you have any drawings or photos of your pre-heater and hood? I would love to build one for next year

[RileySugarbush]

Hat's off to you for thinking things through so completely and early.

You may find that it is pretty difficult to draw off through a filter and bottle directly. If you find you need to reheat, you will need to filter again to avoid niter in you bottled syrup. The optimizer may help, but I have found even pre filtering off the evaporator to be more trouble than it is worth, since you will need to do it again anyway. We draw off a bit over syrup, reheat later, adjust density and filter into a water jacket bottler to hold it at temperature for bottling.

[minehart gap]

Thanks John, it will all be a learning process. I have read and was afraid that filtering right off of the evaporator and bottling would not work but I was optimistic with the idea of the optimizer style speeding things up.

I have a couple pics of where I currently am in the process if any would be interested.
16801
This is the timber frame hog pen with chicken coup that is being re-purposed. The building did make the bacon and eggs so we plan to keep it in the breakfast family.
16802
Here is the pad getting ready for concrete. Hopefully, weather permitting, this coming weekend.

[minehart gap]

Here are a few more photos of where I stand
16803
My right of way. Woods and brush until now. Unfortunately, its a 20+% grade
16804
My version of a tubing tool.
16805
Here is the 600 gal. bulk tank that I got a good deal on.
16806
and the starts to my arch. I know that the front needs to have doors, I just haven't gotten that far yet.

I have a long way to go. If anyone has suggestions or criticism, let me know.

[maple flats]

Minehart Gap, I do have some pics of my pre-heater and hood. They are on an old cell phone, if I still have it, I'll have to see if it can still take a charge so I can pull them off. In a P.M. send me your email address and I will sent them to you if I can still retrieve them. It may take some time.
I made the preheater using copper manifolds, mine are 1" headers with 6 take offs at 1/2" each, if I ever build another one I'll use the next size larger. Someplace in ebay I found some that were 1.25 headers with 6 take offs of 3/4". I have 4 headers and 2 tiers. Mine enter thru the hood just above the inside gutter that catches the condensation, sap enters there and at the other end of the header I put an all and a coin vent, then I have the 6 long tubes, (mine are only 52" long since my flue pan is 60" long. Then they rise 2" over the length of that tier to header #2. At the far end I have a street elbow, a vent T with a coin vent, at the side opposite where the sap entered. Then header #3 attaches to the vent T and the second tier runs from there to header #4. Sap enters #1 one one side, exits #1 and rises to #2 on the opposite side, enters #3 just above where it rose from #2, and exits thru the hood about 6-7" above where it entered. Thus I have 4 headers at 15" long, and 12 lengths of 1/2" copper of 52" each. in the steam. I have a SS drain pan, slightly larger than the length and width of the preheater which drains into the hood gutter. The end not mentioned on #2 has a cap, all other unmentioned ends of the headers have can ell and a coin vent. My issue is that only get temps up to 170-180 but when the auto draw opens the temp slowly drops to about 110-120. I'm thinking if I had larger tubing for the 52" runs the sap in them would both move slower and have more in volume so I'd get hotter sap coming out of the pre-heater during a draw. Most of my draws with the auto draw seem to be about 2-3 gal each. My concept for entering on one side and exiting at the far corner was to get more uniform distribution, nothing can take a short cut. I'll try to get the pictures.
Dave

[maple flats]

Minehart gap, I looked in my old phone, the picture are gone. I don't see where I loaded then onto the computer. I'll have to get some new pictures. Will try to get them in the next week or 2 and send them to you.

[minehart gap]

John, would you think that I would be able to bottle right away if I were filtering directly into something like a water jacket pot? Someone build one and shows it here http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?24666-home-brew-water-jacket-bottler . The other thing that I may not be considering is am I going to be able to keep up with everything that will be going on and bottle at the same time? I just thought, why heat the syrup twice when it is at least almost hot enough after filtering to bottle.

[maple flats]

With 300 taps you are not likely to draw syrup fast enough to bottle right off the evaporator to the filter press to the bottler. At best you will need to do it in batches, maybe at the end of the day's boil. If you have 2 people in the sugarhouse then you might be able to bottle in 2 batches on the day's boil, but the batches would be rather small. If you get a gal of sap from each tap that day at 2% sugar, you can end up with about 6.75-7 gal of syrup for the day, but remember, that will not happen the first day or 2 boiling, because you are sweetening the pans thus leaving lots of sweet in the pans at shut down.

[buckeye gold]

Take the advice given and don't try to do too much all at once. You will end up messing up some part of it and my odds are on burning your pan. It's too easy to get distracted and poof you have a mess. I do a lot of small draws through the day and I put all my finished syrup together and that makes a nice blend. I have even used an insulated water cooler rated for hot liquids. My syrup is usually still around 100 degrees in it at the end of the day. I can then check density while the temperature is stable and it takes very little heat to bring it back to 186 (what I bottle at) and we have time to set everything up for just bottling. If it's too late we just wait another day, but being small I can usually do it that evening after shutdown. It really does not take long to do a few gallons when your all set up and just bottling. I draw at near syrup and finish on propane and filter off the finisher. That I can do as I boil or as I go through cool-down at the end of the day.

[RileySugarbush]

I agree with the previous comments. Concentrate on making syrup first. We used to bottle as we went, (3-4 of us, so it was possible, but it makes for a lot of confusion as Dave mentioned. And we have burned pans as a result.:o Someone will ask a question, you turn your back, and poof! We have lot's of guests too, an other source of distraction.

Last year we adopted a new strategy. We eliminated the pre filters and draw off straight into a stainless bucket. As that fills, we pour into food grade 5 gallon buckets. If there is a grade or flavor change, we separate the batches, since we like to have a variety of flavors and don't blend our syrup together. That is an advantage of a small, non commercial operation. The buckets sit sealed up in the cold sugarhouse throughout the season. When it is time to bottle, we decant off the top with a diaphragm pump, leaving most of the sediment behind. Then we heat to filtering temp, run through the filter press into a water jacket bottler, adjust density with distilled water, and bottle.

Doing this separately allows us to enjoy both the evaporating and bottling process, with far fewer disasters!

[minehart gap]

but remember, that will not happen the first day or 2 boiling, because you are sweetening the pans thus leaving lots of sweet in the pans at shut down.
Dave, I hadn’t thought of that (thanks for the reminder). It was suggested but the person that I purchased my pans from, to not even start until I had 250 gallons of sap and plan to boil all day and not to get syrup the first day.


I draw at near syrup and finish on propane and filter off the finisher. That I can do as I boil or as I go through cool-down at the end of the day.
buckeye gold, love your method. And based on John’s comments on adjusting density with distilled water, it may be common to over boil a little and bring it back to correct density. Paddy Mountain had mentioned doing this with sap when I visited his sugar shack.

John, do you think that your method of storing then bottling would be able to be done with a cone filter instead of a press? And I was a little concerned about storing the syrup in a space that is going to freeze, glad to know that this is not a problem. I still think that I will not fill the buckets all the way to allow for expansion.

By the way, thank you All for your knowledge and being willing to share it. Great community

[unc23win]

Not sure who's preheater this is it might be yours Dave? I saved the pictures last season and I was looking at them as I am going to start to build one. How did this one work? Is it worth having 2 layers or what I've heard called a parallel? What size pipe does everyone use?

Thanks Jared

Who's preheater?16810168071680816809

[maple flats]

Yes, that's mine. Thanks, I had lost the originals in my old phone and I was trying to find where I might have had other copies, Jared, you're a life saver. Those pictures are when I had just finished making it. I will try to get pictures of the plumbing to and from. That may be hard to follow, because a picture of the install looks real congested, but everything in the set up has a purpose and it works very well. My only complaint is that I lose temp. during a draw. As the auto draw opens the temp is 170-180F but the draws are between 1.5-4 gal each and after about 2 minutes my temp is down to 110-120. I think if I had gotten 1.25 headers with 6 take-offs of 3/4" each rather than 1" headers and 1/2" take-offs I might have held better temps near the end of a syrup draw. But still, 110-120 after 2 minutes is loads better than the 35-40 the sap leaves the head tank at.

[unc23win]

You are welcome thanks to you for sharing the pictures and thanks for the info. I would like to see the pics of the install as well. Are you running a drip pan or troths?

Thanks
Jared

[RileySugarbush]

John, do you think that your method of storing then bottling would be able to be done with a cone filter instead of a press? And I was a little concerned about storing the syrup in a space that is going to freeze, glad to know that this is not a problem. I still think that I will not fill the buckets all the way to allow for expansion.

It will work, but be much slower. What you have going for you is the decanting, which eliminates lot's of the sediment, and that you have the syrup nice and hot. The cone optimizers are a great idea and should help as well. Your problem is that the filtered syrup will cool since it is filtering slowly, and you can't reheat very much without introducing more niter unless you use a water jacket bottler. Even with our filter press, which is very fast, we need to warm up the syrup before bottling. I really encourage you to get a water jacket bottler. Make one if you are handy. I made ours from some cheap stainless pots, a water heater element, a coffee urn thermostat and spigot.

[Lano75]

We have smoky lake finisher and evaporator. Last year we finally got our process running the way I like it. We draw off check density then pour into finisher through filter set. Once we have around 3-5 gallons in the finisher we reheat and refilter check density and bottle. This works well especially if we land on a Saturday or Sunday. Then we can bottle during the day. We had one week last year where we had sap coming out of our you know where and syrup too! We filled the finisher to the top. That will not happen again. If you have a filter press you will not have to filter twice. We found that with flat filters running through twice is the answer to clear syrup.

[maple flats]

For those who use flat or cone filters, some producers on this forum have used filter aid (food grade diatomaceous earth) with good results. It reportedly gives you good clear syrup without needing to invest in a filter press.

[berkshires]

Not sure what your sugarbush looks like, but you mention it's on a slope facing east northeast. I have part of my property like that, and I can tell you that those trees are not getting a ton of sun in the best of times, and in areas where the trees are crowded, the sugar is much lower. I have a bunch of healthy but crowded trees (probably five or more mature maples per 10 yards square) on a steep slope facing east northeast, and they probably only see a few hours of minimal sun per day. As a result, I get like 1 to 1.2 % sap from them.

So my suggestion would be if you're not going to tap everything your first year, be smart and pick and choose those trees that look best. Look for the size of the crown, and how much room they have around them. If you've got one with a big pine shading it, skip it, and fill it in another year if you have to. Believe me, boiling 2.2% sap is a lot more fun than boiling 1.5%!

The plus side of being partially north-facing is that when your neighbors are getting nothing because it's too warm, you may get a nice little flow.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[minehart gap]

I really encourage you to get a water jacket bottler.

John, I made arrangements to buy a water jacket canner today. Thanks for the advice.


We found that with flat filters running through twice is the answer to clear syrup
Lano75, have you tried this with a cone filter? I already have one and prefilters. I will certainly try it. Sounds like a great idea, thanks.

Dave, good information, I will search posts for how much filter aid to use. Thanks

Berkshires, my sugar bush is northeast facing but it is on the southwest side of a gap. I typically get sun for about an hour or more before the rest of the mountain. My trees are a little crowded but not much (about 30 to 50 feet between stumps) I’m hopeful that this is a good location but if not, it’s what I have to work with. Do you know if fertilizing helps?

[maple flats]

Here's a link to a thread where mountainvan uses DE (filter aid) with flat filters http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?23495-Filter-Issues-(not-filter-press)&p=254860#post254860
Enjoy the read.

[berkshires]

My trees are a little crowded but not much (about 30 to 50 feet between stumps) I’m hopeful that this is a good location but if not, it’s what I have to work with. Do you know if fertilizing helps?

I'm the furthest thing from an expert in sugarbush spacing or management, but that sounds much less crowded than my property. Probably just fine.

Fertilizing seems like it would be an impossible and costly task, with only long-term payoffs if any. But I'll admit I know nothing about it in regards to maple sugaring.

Cheers!

[Paddymountain]

Hey Minehart, I built a preheater for my evaporator since you were here this summer! If you want to see it give a shout!

[minehart gap]

Hey Snookie, hows it going? I was near your place about a week ago but was working and couldn’t stop in. I would love to see your preheater. I’ll have to swing over some Sunday. Also, if the offer still stands, I’m hoping that you can come up to my place to show me tips and tricks for tapping.

[Lano75]

Minehart, I have not tried cone filters they might work just fine but I would look at the thread that talks about the stand for the cone filter that essentially makes it into a sailor hat. This utilizes more surface area of the cone filter. I am doing some research on developing a stainless steel mesh filter that would take the draw off syrup to 30-40 microns and then run through the flat filters and bottle. This would save one step in the process. I am not big enough to justify a filter press yet.

[minehart gap]

Had a great but hard day today. With the rain last Sunday, I have not been able to get the rest of the stone up the the build site until today and even then only because of the freeze last night. Decided to take advantage of the situation so I also picked up and took 160 bags of quikrete up too. The ground was frozen up until the last load. I had to take it up 25 bags at at time in the truck. Unloaded and stacked everything then graded the stone on the rest of the pad.

I don’t like to work on Sunday but with the short days and winter closing in, I’m afraid I’m going to have to. So I figure tomorrow I’ll pour the pad where the evaporator will set and the raised pads where the timbers will rest.

Once concrete is done, I’ll be confident that I can finish before season. Lots of work but possible. Next will assembling and raising the timber frame.

Also, while looking for information about DE with cone filters, I have come to believe that you use more than 1 pre-filter at a time. I didn’t know this and am now concerned that I don’t have enough. How many pre-filters do you guys think that I will use with 300 taps? I am trying to plan for a high production season that way I have enough supplies while financial planning for a bad season that way I’m not disappointed. Hoping for around 100 gal. of syrup.

[minehart gap]

16819 sorry everyone, I know how much we all like photos so I took one just for the occasion but forgot to post it earlier. I must be a little tired. And it came in sideways too boot

[Lano75]

Minehart

We use 4 pre filters and the orlon flat filter. Typically we will take one pre filter off after 1-2 gallons of syrup. At the end of the night we rinse all the filters in our kitchen with hot water and hang dry for the next day. We have four sets. Update on the stainless steel mesh filters. I am having a filter built that will take the draw off syrup down to 5 microns. THen we will check density and pour through flat filters. We are hoping that this eliminates filtering twice.

With 300 taps I would try and budget for a filter press. I know if I went any larger than 100 taps which is where I am at I would invest in the press.

[minehart gap]

Lano, I would love to have a filter press. I just get hung up on the price. I’m a little on the cheap side and am getting quite a bit of money wrapped up in this before a drop of syrup is made. A buddy and I would like to build a couple (he is a machinist) but we are having trouble finding a template to work from. Has anyone done this? I have searched the forums and it looks like everyone is trying to buy the plates and build the rest. We could build all of it. Does anyone have the template of the plates or could make a template for me?

Thanks in advance if anyone would do this.

[maple flats]

Minehart, you're in better shape that I was the year I built my sugarhouse. Codes guy held me up from May until the Tuesday before Thanksgiving in 2003 (I later learned that all the hoops he made me jump thru were in fact not required, being a farm structure in NYS I did not need a permit at all). Then the only help I had was an excavator (with operator, that's before I bought my own) to dig trenches and a pit for the evaporator base, and then I had lots of family and a couple of friends on the 12/31/03 who helped put the trusses up, then the following Sat my oldest son came and helped put the steel roofing on. The rest was all me, working nights until 9-10 pm and weekends all day.
You're still in good shape comparatively!

[Sugarmaker]

Just checking in on you! You do have a big project and prefilters look to be down the list a ways. but a dozen prefilters should do yo just fine for 100 gallons of syrup. If you can set up two filter stations, so you can tear on down while the other is still working.
I started my sugarhouse oct 20 2000 and was putting the ridge cap on the roof Christmas eve. Set the evaporator in early Jan and tapped and made syrup in Feb 2001. Sugarhouse was far from done but we made 40 gallons of syrup on 300 taps from red maples.
Good luck in your maple adventures, If I can help from long distance let me know.
Regards,
Chris

[minehart gap]

Dave and Chris, thanks for the support. Being that it’s Sunday and all, I worked but not too much. I just put in the drain, filled all of my columns to below frost with concrete and placed the rebar. Then I had a little extra energy (very little) and poured two of my post supports. They have to be 8” higher than the floor because it is only 6’ to the first cross beam on the building that I took down and I plan to have a door in that side. So I needed a little more elevation in order to fit.

Sorry that the picture is sideways, not sure what is going on with that

[minehart gap]

Finally was able to get enough water to the building site to mix some concrete so this morning my cousin helped me mix and pour the pad for under the evaporator and two more post columns. It’s coming along. This Friday concrete should be done. Then bring the sawmill up to cut the siding. And the first day that the ground is frozen, bring the posts and beams up the hill. Then I should be set!

How smooth do you all like your concern floor? I used a mag finish so far but can change the rest without having it look too bad. I figured that I would want smooth but not slippery when it’s wet. Glass finish would most likely be like ice when something was spilled.

[minehart gap]

How much sap can I expect in a day on a great run? My reason for asking is that I recall reading a post that maple flats had written that when he first started, he added taps to the point that when the sap really flowed, he couldn’t keep up. I have a 600 gallon tank and a 250 gallon tank but my evaporator is looking to be around 35 gal per hour. So realistically if I boil for 10 to 12 hours I am looking at 350 to 420 gallon of evaporation. If there are 2 days in a row of 2 gallon per tap per day and I have 300 taps that’s 1200 gallon.I can’t keep up with that. Is this a real possibility? Perhaps I need to tap fewer until I get a RO.

[maple flats]

At that point I was boiling on a 2x3 and I had 70 taps. I got about 2 gal a day/tap 2 days in a row. My 2x3 was evaporating 6 gph when all was going perfectly, less when not. Having 140 gal of sap with a 6 GPH rate would take just under 24 hrs if I could keep the 6/hr going the whole time. My taps were 4 miles away, and my only collection was in 5 gal jugs, set on the ground and little 2,3 or 4 tap tubing systems gravity feeding into the jugs. The jug caps had a hole thru theem and I had a clamp on the 5/16 tubing just under the cap to hold it from pulling out. To empty or change a jug, I unscrewed the cap, if under half full, it was dumped into another jug on a carrier on the back of my 4x4 compact tractor (I made a funnel to lessen spills) if there was not room to dump it, the jug went on the tractor rack and an empty was placed in service on that cap. Collection took time that meant I wasn't boiling. My only storage was in those 5 gal jugs. I had gotten the jugs from a local Chinese restaurant, cooking oil jugs, I then cleaned the jugs which was not easy, but persistence prevailed. I had no tank until year 2, when I bought a lead free but galv. stock tank. In year 3 I got my first SS tank, a 415 gal milk tank for $100. I still use that tank.
2 gal/tap/day is rare especially on 5/16 gravity, but it happened 2 days in a row. I did not have enough extra jugs to hold more than 110 gal (22 jugs + one on each mini tubing system. I was swamped. I should of stopped adding taps at about 35-45 max.
Much more common is going to be 1-1.5 gal/tap on good days only, most days will be less.

[Sugarmaker]

Depends on where you are in Pennsylvania? Your mileage may vary!:) Play it by ear. We have 600 taps and boil at 130 GPH. our largest sap runs are around 1000 gal per day. Most days 750-800. not good days 300.
Regards,
Chris

[johnallin]

Finally was able to get enough water to the building site to mix some concrete so this morning my cousin helped me mix and pour the pad for under the evaporator and two more post columns. It’s coming along. This Friday concrete should be done. Then bring the sawmill up to cut the siding. And the first day that the ground is frozen, bring the posts and beams up the hill. Then I should be set!

How smooth do you all like your concern floor? I used a mag finish so far but can change the rest without having it look too bad. I figured that I would want smooth but not slippery when it’s wet. Glass finish would most likely be like ice when something was spilled.

Mine is almost glass like and not slippery at all. I think the smoother the better for hosing down and keeping dust to a minimum. It does gets sticky when we spill...

[DrTimPerkins]

Our previous sugarhouse floor was smooth. Was a bit slippery when wet, but the real problem was when you had snow build-up in the treads of your boots. At that point the floor was worse than a skating rink. Going in and out meant stopping to kick snow off your boots and then walking gingerly until you were sure there was no snow underfoot.

That floor also didn't have enough steel in the cement, or decent drains, so it was cracking up into chunks and heaving around. We dug the whole thing out 4-5 years ago and put in good drainage, lots of steel, and a brushed surface. It is very easy to keep clean with a hose, drains great, and is not at all slippery.

[maple flats]

I feel that any concrete floor where you might have snow or ice is an invitation for injury if the surface is smooth. Brushed is best.
I used to drive school bus, and the district had a new garage. Over the years several drivers slipped and fell when entering, most only hurt their dignity, a few had physical injuries.

[Lano75]

Minehart,

Tap all 300, on slow days you will be happy you have them on big days it will be really exciting.

We had 99 taps last year with 70 on 3/16 gravity. Our biggest day was 160, we had 9 days over 100 gallons and 8 days under

[Chip Burner]

I agree with Dr. Tim. Just a light steel trowel finish to close up any holes washes down nicely. The glass finishes look nice but are almost dangerous with the conditions that you will have.
Jim

[minehart gap]

Floor, check. I’m putting a steel finish then a light broom. Should give some traction but be easy to clean.
16859

[minehart gap]

Raining today, and I'm kind of tired after mixing and finishing concrete yesterday (I must be getting soft). Anyway, I worked on creating my spreadsheet for tracking basically everything. I was surprised to see that the greatest profit percentage based on the North American Maple Producers Manual formula for pricing the syrup and entering the current cost for bottles is in pints. Granted, you bring in more money the smaller the quantity but pints give the best profit potential. Of coarse, that all depends of the expenses too.

Where does everyone get there containers? I prefer glass and have pretty much determined that I will be bottling 8 oz., 12 oz., and pints primarily with some quarts and half gallons as well.

[RileySugarbush]

We buy our 8oz glass by the pallet load from SKS. We prefer the nice metal caps with maple leaf on top and SKS doesn't carry them so we get them from Sugarbush Supplies in Mason Michigan.

[maple flats]

Glass for sure showcases the product best, but while I pack in both, the sales call for plastic. I sell about 98% in plastic except for gift giving and special occasions. MY bourbon barrel aged syrup is the only one I only pack in glass.

[RileySugarbush]

To be clear, (pun alert) we are decidedly non commercial and give away all the syrup we make. We like the look in glass, and try to get it as cheap as we can, but it is not really cheap!

Look to others here for advise on making money. We just seem to spend it!

[maple flats]

To be clear, (pun alert) we are decidedly non commercial and give away all the syrup we make. We like the look in glass, and try to get it as cheap as we can, but it is not really cheap!

Look to others here for advise on making money. We just seem to spend it!
John, if you have 220 taps and give it all away. you must have a long line of "friends and relatives" in line for syrup.

[RileySugarbush]

Very true!

There are two other families that boil together with us at our bush. Used to be four, but one moved to Montana.We have had some success!http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=16866&stc=1


We decided not to complicate things with trying to make any money and just keep it fun, so we all agreed never to sell any syrup. Every visiting family during the sugaring season goes home with an 8 oz bottle. Guerrilla marketing for all you guys.... we have introduced many to the joys of real maple! We split the remainder between ourselves after giving generous amounts to all of our dedicated help. It is often then donated to fundraising auctions and the like. Still plenty to keep for family and "friends"!

[minehart gap]

Does anyone have a manual for a Wes Fab 5” filter press? I was given a lead and arranged to purchase a 5” Wes Fab filter press. The gentleman that I am buying it from does not know if he has the instructions and manual for it but will look, I figured that I would try to save him the time of looking for it.

John, I think that it’s really cool that you are sugaring that way.

[minehart gap]

16878
Took a couple days vacation time to get back on track. Started to set the post and beams. What I got done today, I had planned to take 2 days.

Friday I plan to head to Tioga County to pick up main line, more spiles, arch board and a filter press. Just might turn out to be a great weekend

[1arch]

Our previous sugarhouse floor was smooth. Was a bit slippery when wet, but the real problem was when you had snow build-up in the treads of your boots. At that point the floor was worse than a skating rink. Going in and out meant stopping to kick snow off your boots and then walking gingerly until you were sure there was no snow underfoot.

That floor also didn't have enough steel in the cement, or decent drains, so it was cracking up into chunks and heaving around. We dug the whole thing out 4-5 years ago and put in good drainage, lots of steel, and a brushed surface. It is very easy to keep clean with a hose, drains great, and is not at all slippery.

We had discussed the same predicament.... Sure enough our smooth finish result in my opinion became more dangerous than any cleaning advantage gained by being glassy smooth. Broom finish is easily cleanable and also smooths out over time with ongoing traffic.

[minehart gap]

1arch, love your profile picture. I drive a team of Haflingers.

My concrete didn’t exactly turn out as I had expected. When I left the night of pouring, it had a steel smooth finish then a light broom rubbed across it then covered with blanket. Apparently, it wasn’t as set as I thought that it was because when I looked at it a week later (after talking the blankets off) some of the aggregate had surfaced and my finish is rougher than I had hoped. It will smooth out over time but there shouldn’t be a too much of a slipping hazard.

[maple flats]

Rent a power trowel, it will work wonders. Start with steel pads and when that is done, put wooden pads on, that will work up fine. It's too late to do it any other way.

[minehart gap]

Having a very productive weekend. Wednesday and Thursday, got some help and set the posts and beams. Friday, took a tour of Tioga County and picked up the rest of my tee’s, taps and main line, arch board, filter press, arch gasket and a boat load of other stuff. Meet a lot of great people.

I have decided to try tee’s and taps from three different manufacturers. Leaders check valve adapters, CDL taps that have rubber, and Lapierre seasonal spouts in order to see what I like the best. I did go with all leader 3/16” tubing because I got a good deal and Lapierre main line because it is virgin plastic.

Thanks to CDL Pa, Bud Bowers, Jim Tice and CCDL for all of the advice and showing me there set ups.

Saturday, my brother in law helped me set most of the rafters. Today I plan to finish them then start on the cupola.

[minehart gap]

Another weekend closer to being ready. Hope to finish up the siding today.16917

[minehart gap]

Is there any reason that cupola doors couldn’t open from the top and open inward with screen outside?

To be honest, given the time of year and temperatures when we boil, im not sure why screens are necessary. Birds maybe

[unc23win]

Pretty sure in PA if you have a cupola you have to have screens for inspection. How it opens or closes is up to you.

[minehart gap]

Thanks Jared. Nice Sugar shack BTW. And best of luck this season.

[minehart gap]

Another day closer to ready. But still nowhere near. Finally got the ridge cap on and another side of the shack has baton strips before I ran the air compressor out of fuel(that I forgot to bring along today). Also framed and installed a 4’ wide door.

I go tomorrow evening to pick up a 3 bowl sink. Hopefully it, my evaporator and bulk tanks will get up the mountain next week. And the outside at least of the sugar shack will get finished.16946
Oh yea, and the front door needs finished and hung.

[minehart gap]

Got the front door hung and finish siding and cupola doors today just in time for a windy day tomorrow.16957

Merry Christmas everyone. Hope that you all have a wonderful day tomorrow and a great 2018 Maple Season.

[johnallin]

And a very Merry Christmas from the Allin family to all of you!

[minehart gap]

I made my drops today. Previously I had stated that I was trying Leaders check valve adapters, CDL taps that have rubber, and Lapierre seasonal spouts. I had also purchased tees from the respected manufacturers. All of my drops were made with Leader 3/16” tubing, my homemade two handed tubing tool and in the heat of my house. So far I prefer the Lapierre tees with the double barb and the shape of the back where you push against to install. The CDL and Leader tees all installed well I just believe that the Lapierre will stay better and we’re smoother to install. As for taps, for making the drops, CDL max taps installed the best. This is mainly because of the shape of the part that you push against to seat them. With Leader and Lapierre, there is a odd shape to push against that would make it insert at an angle if not positioned in the tool just right. I believe that in the long run, Leader stuby spouts will be the way to go except for the added price, they have the benefits of not needing to cut the drop line to install a new spout every year and the availability of check valve adapters. Please keep in mind when reading my analysis that this is my first time making drops and using tubing.

Just my take so far. I’m anxious to hang the main line and get the laterals in the woods this weekend. I have a friend coming over to show me how to do this and give me a hand to get it done.

[minehart gap]

Almost there. Finished up the baton strips on Friday and set my sap tank yesterday. Worked on finishing up my evaporator today during the snow. Monday will be running main line and laterals. I pick up my canner next week and hopefully the restaurant stoor in Harrisburg will have 5 gallon hot fill storage vessels. 16969

[Paddymountain]

Looks like you are getting there!!!! Hopefully sap won't be running to Valentine's day. I put taps on the woods at the house
today. Have about 2 more days work and I'll be ready to go!!

[minehart gap]

Got 600’ of 3/4” main line and about 1/2 mile of 3/16” run today with the help of Caleb Zook, Rusty & Nate Fisher. What a day. Caleb and I must have climbed that hill 25 times.

Now my legs are cramping up. Drinking apple cider vinegar to get rid of the cramps. No wonder that stuf cleans so well, tastes so bad everything is scared of it and runs away. What a horrid taste but it gets rid of cramps in usually less than a minute.

Oh, and the sugar shack is coming along. 16983

[minehart gap]

Wow, been busy. Over this last weekend I installed the remaining 800’ of 3/16” and 120 of my drops, finished welding the arch, insulated the evaporator room, and finished tieing up my main line. This evening, my cousin Dave and I set the arch in place in the sugar shack.

Now I need to insulate and brick the arch, install the chimney and rig the pipe from the sap tank to the evaporator. Then run more tubing and tap trees and rig a cable system for the cupola doors.

This is kind of exhausting. I am looking forward to the boiling sap for 10 hours after working 10 hour days. She hasn’t said yet but my wife thinks I’m crazy.

[minehart gap]

After work today I received my order from Lapierre. I just had to try out the new tubing. LOVE IT for install. I’m hoping that it isn’t too pliable and pulls apart. If everything stays together, I found my tubing. I was able to run about 250’ of tubing, install 24 tees and drops in about an hour including the hike up half the mountain.

[unc23win]

After work today I received my order from Lapierre. I just had to try out the new tubing. LOVE IT for install. I’m hoping that it isn’t too pliable and pulls apart. If everything stays together, I found my tubing. I was able to run about 250’ of tubing, install 24 tees and drops in about an hour including the hike up half the mountain.

I use 100% Lapierre tubing and fittings and I like it all.

[minehart gap]

So far, this last week was productive
Tuesday, before the thaw, I got the arch and pans up the hill and my cousin Dave helped unload it and set it in place.
Wednesday I took the fire brick up and unloaded
Friday, I was able to get the arch insulated and bricked
Today I was able to hang the pipe from the tank to the evaporator and get the chimney put together and the hole cut in the roof and I built the cap.
Tomorrow I plan to put the chimney up and finish up on some exterior trim on the shack. I think that I will be ready for the thaw next Friday and tap then.

[maple maniac65]

Was thinking about getting ready but the Robins are already back. If the Miller moths start appearing I won't even tap.

[minehart gap]

Rigged up the cable and pulley system for the cupola doors and supported the smoke stack then did a test boil today. Started the fire slow to make sure everything was good.
17074
Then got it going fairly good.
17075
17076
I believe that everything works good. My loft area filled up with steam but I suspected that it would. I will have to put a wall over the opening perhaps with a set of glass French doors overlooking the evaporator.

I think, if the weather forecast is correct, that I will be tapping this Friday.

Sorry that I took every picture sideways today

[minehart gap]

Forecast isn’t changing. I think that I will tap on Friday.

Ever since my test boil, I’ve been thinking that a float pan is a must. I’ve been looking everywhere and don’t see just a float box with float and valve for sale. It’s either just the valve and/or float with no pan or it comes with the evaporator. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.

[minehart gap]

Just remembered and located a 3/4” brass float valve that I have. Now to come up with a stainless steel tank and float of some kind.

[minehart gap]

Tapped on Friday. Started around noon and had flow by 2:30. Leaks, leaks, leaks. I spent the rest of Friday and all day Saturday fixing leaks. I had 1 squirrel bite and the rest were leaks at the spiles. I used a rawhide carpenter hammer (One that is used to seat joints in finish carpentry). I think that it is too light. I would tap the spiles in until the sound became a thud then go to the next. I have had to go back to some at least twice now and when I checked last night, I still have leaks in every lateral but one.

I have noticed that clear spiles seam to seat better than the white spiles. And the stubby spout and adapters have not appeared to be a problem at the connection.

My trees haven’t stopped flowing. There has been a steady flow since 2:30 on Friday. I’m getting a good amount of sap, about 3/4 gallon per tap per day.

Some things will change for next year. My wood pile will be right beside the sugar shack. There will be a hood and preheater because the front half of my sap pan boils great but the back half doesn’t boil hardly at all.. And this year there will be a float box.

Also, how does everyone keep track of sap flow and evaporation rate with a 1 tank system. The two ways that I am coming up with are to have two tanks so that I can keep track of sap flow in one, then transfer to the other tank to keep track of evaporation with the second tank and still be able to track flow with the first or I could possibly use water meters. What is everyone doing for this?

Boiled yesterday. The temperature of my syrup pan is at 216 degrees so it’s getting there. Hopefully I’ll have syrup this afternoon.

[buckeye gold]

Minehart. I use a really light tack hammer and I notice sometimes you get a thud, but it's not a setting thud. I go until I can sense a deeper thud and it seems the hammer wants to bounce back. I had one tap not seat out of 70 the other day and no split bark leaks. You will learn when it's right, repetition and mistakes are great teachers.

On the boil rate, I think most of us are estimating. I know how much sap I have went through at the end of the day and divide it against the hours for an average. At times I doing more and some less, depending on my firing discipline.

We all stack our wood too far away sometime....all this is part of your initiation. and your final exam is burning your pan. Some of us have doctorates in pan burning:lol:

[minehart gap]

Went on furlough this morning so I went to the woods. Went around and redid nearly all of my taps. Most of them had worked out from the tree so they must not have been seated to begin with and the trees are still thawing possibly. The CDL white spiles had worked out the most, some barely still in the tap hole. I'm getting a better hammer tomorrow. The temps here haven't dropped below freezing since Saturday morning and everything is thawing out. Sap is still running. 1.4 gap/tap since same time yesterday. I did walk the main line at the end of the day today, my 2 laterals that use Check Valve adapters and Stubby Spouts have stopped running. The other 4 are still going strong.

Boiled for another 3 hours this afternoon. I need to calculate how many gallon to sweeten my pans. I have to be close. No reading on the hydrometer yet though. I know that the steam is bellowing out the cupola and every other opening that it can find. Lets me know where all I have to seal up yet.

Had an eagle watch me for a few minutes today when I was walking the lines. It flew away once I started tapping though. Hope he keeps an eye out for the squirrels for me and doesn't get the taste for sap. They are beautiful creatures. And big.

[maple marc]

Minehart, for measuring evaporation rate, I like my sight tube that I installed between my overhead tank and my evaporator. I mounted it to a board with lines so I know the level of the tank, and when I take readings each hour I know what my rate is. It helps me adjust my firings for optimal rate.

Marc

[maple flats]

Do not tap them in too hard, only "tap" the spiles in until the sound changes. A bigger hammer is not the answer. Likely you had most in good, but when sap filled the space and ice formed, it pushed the taps out. If you hit the taps too hard, you will split the bark and that ruins that hole for the season, and you are advised not to redrill, just let it heal itself and learn from your errors.

[minehart gap]

Dave, yea I learned that lesson yesterday (twice). I guess that I didn’t figure it out the first time. I will definitely try to never do that again.

Marc, if you have sap flowing into your tank from a main line or something and another pipe taking sap through the sight tube then to your evaporator, how do you know how much is coming in from the taps? Possible I am just missing something.

Using Big_Eddy’s formula for calculating volume to sweeten my pans, and assuming that the sugar content is 2%(which we know it isn’t) I will need to run 555 gallon through before I get syrup. At 35 gal/hour, I don’t think that I will ever get there. But seriously, I think that I’m about half way there. I boiled for another 7 hours today.

Had another 50 gallon of sap overnight last night. Both laterals that have CDL spiles and one lateral with Lapierre spiles are still running (again, no freeze since Saturday morning). If the weather holds true, we will start another run tomorrow.

[minehart gap]

Trees stopped running when it hit the freezing point(almost exactly the same time) last evening about 5:30.

At the same time, it started to snow and the humidity went up. The steam really came of the evaporator to the point that I couldn’t see the other side of it standing right beside it. Within half an hour I had my first draw off. A little over a gallon of amber. Considering everything that’s happened in the last year, that’s the hardest that I have ever worked for a gallon of anything ever!!! Pans are now sweetened and were expecting the weather for another run tomorrow.

This went from fun to extraordinary last evening.

[minehart gap]

I need to get a sap hydrometer. When I left the sugar shack Saturday evening around 5 my tank was empty. When I got there this morning at 9, I had 283 gallon from 163 taps but I am afraid that it is of the 1% verity. Boiled from 10 am until 9 pm and only drew 3 gallon of syrup. Oh, and when I left this evening, there was 283 gallon of sap in my tank.

Having fun but this is exhausting. Until I get a sap hydrometer is there any way to determine sugar content?

[amaranth farm]

Radio Silence.

[buckeye gold]

minehart gap....I'm gonna take a wild arse guess and say considering what sweet you have in the pan your probably at 1.3 to 1.4%

Most of my sap so far has been 1.3 -1.4

[Paddymountain]

Looks like you need a bigger woodpile, not a sap hydrometer!
Have fun, season is just starting!

[minehart gap]

Another gallon per tap yesterday. But I’m catching up. I changed the back end of the arch and picked up another 4 gallon per hour evaporation. Getting there. Now I need to find time to filter and bottle.

Snook, there is no doubt that the wood pile needs to be bigger.
Buckeye, I have no way to know until my sap hydrometer gets here but I am noticing that it is starting to get higher just by volume of syrup increasing.
Amaranth Farms, how many people looked sideways at you when you started snorting sap? It may be another way to enjoy maple!

[minehart gap]

I’m not sure why but anytime that I run my evaporator for more than 5 hours I greatly loose efficiency. For the first 4 - 5 hours, it is evaporating about 32 to 34 gal per hour then over the next 2 hours it goes down to Around 22 gallon per hour then if I go longer it drops to handy 16 gallon per hour. This is usually happening as the temperature outside drops so the sap gets colder and I don’t have a pre-heater and I noticed that after around 5 hours my door frame is starting to turn red from heat and it doesn’t close as tight. Anyone have any suggestions

[blissville maples]

I need to get a sap hydrometer. When I left the sugar shack Saturday evening around 5 my tank was empty. When I got there this morning at 9, I had 283 gallon from 163 taps but I am afraid that it is of the 1% verity. Boiled from 10 am until 9 pm and only drew 3 gallon of syrup. Oh, and when I left this evening, there was 283 gallon of sap in my tank.

Having fun but this is exhausting. Until I get a sap hydrometer is there any way to determine sugar content?

Taste it, if it's noticeably sweet likely near 2percent. I noticed end of season sap that's 2percent you can't really taste the sweetness much if at all

[Cjadamec]

Does your firewood usage drop along with your decrease in evaporation rate?

I know I'm not an arch expert but, if your door fame is getting that hot and your evap rate is dropping that drastically my best guess is you are loosing draft out your stack. You may need to increase the gap between the insulation and the bottom of the pan on the back end towards the stack to allow for thermal expansion of all the steel. It probably takes 4-5 hours for the heat to soak through the insulation and then cause things to swell up.

Also is your fire burning clean? If you are generating creosote from a dirty fire it can build up quickly and choke off the draft. It doesn't take much to start blocking draft with how tight a space there is between the back of the arch and the pan.

[minehart gap]

Does your firewood usage drop along with your decrease in evaporation rate?

I know I'm not an arch expert but, if your door fame is getting that hot and your evap rate is dropping that drastically my best guess is you are loosing draft out your stack. You may need to increase the gap between the insulation and the bottom of the pan on the back end towards the stack to allow for thermal expansion of all the steel. It probably takes 4-5 hours for the heat to soak through the insulation and then cause things to swell up.

Also is your fire burning clean? If you are generating creosote from a dirty fire it can build up quickly and choke off the draft. It doesn't take much to start blocking draft with how tight a space there is between the back of the arch and the pan.

Fire wood is burning clean, primarily locust and red oak. But usage does drop off about 5 hours in. I let some coals burn down and it helps with burning but the evaporation rate doesn’t pick up. And I just changed the back end to push the heat up into the pan. That is probably it. Thanks

[antelope76]

I would check and make sure ashes aren't building up. keep them cleaned out often.
I’m not sure why but anytime that I run my evaporator for more than 5 hours I greatly loose efficiency. For the first 4 - 5 hours, it is evaporating about 32 to 34 gal per hour then over the next 2 hours it goes down to Around 22 gallon per hour then if I go longer it drops to handy 16 gallon per hour. This is usually happening as the temperature outside drops so the sap gets colder and I don’t have a pre-heater and I noticed that after around 5 hours my door frame is starting to turn red from heat and it doesn’t close as tight. Anyone have any suggestions

[asknupp]

I would look at suet build up on the bottom of the pans. If I want to keep up on efficiency I need to run the flu brush between flu before start up.

[Super Sapper]

If you have a buildup of coals it can choke your draft and lower your boil rate.

[amaranth farm]

Radio Silence.

[minehart gap]

I do think that the ash build up and coals are contributing to the problem. But I have been cleaning them up and allowing the wood to burn up good. The wood starts to build up at 5 hours. I thought about the suet on the flues and had cleaned them before the last boil so I don’t think that is the problem.

Amaranth Farms, possibly there is a new market there. The young people might scarf it up before we even boil it.

[buckeye gold]

You may need to drain and pull your pan off to clean the underside really well. I use a big putty knife to get the deep suit off. I don't have hardly any creosote with AOF. I put a larger set of grates in the back of my firebox and I push everything back every time I fire. The built up coals fall through, but the heat off them still draws up and out the flue.

[minehart gap]

Added a float box last weekend, definitely makes life easier and increased boil rate.

Next is a steam hood and preheater. Hood is a must, I can still see the steam when I close my eyes for hours after I get home for the day.

[minehart gap]

3/4 gallon away from getting my goal for the year and breaking even (once it sells). I may just take the evening off after the syrup comes out. Yahooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

[minehart gap]

It is possible that I shouldn’t “count my chickens before they hatch”.

Sap stayed 1/2 degree below syrup for 3 hours last evening and didn’t get to syrup for another 2 hours after starting up this morning. Torture! All for 0.9 gallon draw today.

Out of sap but it’s running. Hopefully I can get more syrup tomorrow.

[Paddymountain]

Sounds like you met your goal! There is more syrup to be made this year! Maybe you will surpass your
expectations! I'm looking to make at least another 20 gallons.

[minehart gap]

Ended my season with 38 gallon of syrup, 18 pounds of sugar and 6 pounds of maple glazed nuts.

After my first season, I have come to realize that there is no "finished", and that you are always getting ready for next year. I have already gotten a new arch from A & A and am looking at a Deer Run 250 RO for next year. With the new arch, I have increased my boil rate to about 35 gpm.
And as a result of the addition of a RO, I believe that I will need:
1. a new front pan that will allow for reversing the flow and same side draw-off (looking at A & A's new concept) to minimize sugar sands
2. an automatic draw-off (most likely going to have to fab my own) because I will be too busy
3. a draw-off basin (probably a modified milk house sink if I can find one) because I dont believe 5 gallon pots will work anymore
4. and from what I hear, I will need a bubblier if I want any light syrup.
5. If the RO becomes a reality, there will have to be a root cellar built so that it will not freeze
6. and a head tank put in the loft of the sugar shack.

I have already came up with how I will have the firewood closer to the sugar shack, I have started to make wooden pallets that will be able to be put on wheels like bellboy carts. I'm about half done cutting and splitting firewood for next year. And the new arch is made to have AOF and AUF so I need to buy a fan and fabricate duct work. If what I read is realistic, a 2x8 with AOF, AUF and a preheater, I should be able to boil around 45 to 50 gph. Oh yea, and I will need to install about 500 more feet of mainline and another mile of 3/16".

To be honest, I'm not sure that there is enough time to be ready for next year.

[prairietapper]

this has been a fun read and informative. Congrats on your progress, you have come a long way.
But as a beloved old boat racer who has passed a way used to say, "you gotta do the work, if you wanna succeed" ( he might have used the word win.. but it still fits. )

[maple flats]

You need a blower not a fan, for AOF it needs to be a high pressure blower.
It looks like you have some big plans, just be sure to have fun.

[minehart gap]

prairietapper, thank you for the kind comments. I hope that my blunders and successes can help someone else.

Dave, the engineer and project manager in me thrives on the project aspect of this as much as I love the making of the syrup. And you bring up my current endeavor - the blower. I have read Guidelines for the Combustion Efficiency for Maple Producers by the University of Vermont Extension and need to reread it as there are a few points that I an unsure of. With a 26"x8', I am assuming (bases on a 2 1/2 x8) that a 1/2 hp blower will work for the AOF, will this size also be adequate for the AUF or do I need a larger blower for the combination? What is the ideal stack temperature? Can the same blower be incorporated to provide pressurized air for a bubbler? Best way to fabricate the duct work, ect...

[KJamesJR]

Your shack is from the 1800's? How's it been holding up? What kind of foundation is it sitting on?

[minehart gap]

The structure was built in the 1800's but not in the current site. It was on a farm and was scheduled for demo. I found out about it and asked if I could have it. Took it apart, poured footers where the posts are and a floor then replaced several questionable timbers and reassemble it. A lot of work but really cool (in my opinion). With the steam hood, I think it will last a long time. Hopefully another 200 years.

[minehart gap]

Got lucky today I think. I stopped by a farm this afternoon and asked the farmer if he, by any chance, had any old milk house sinks. He said that he thought that he did and diapered into his barn. A few minutes later, he came back out with 2 round bottom, stainless steel sinks. One is about 10 gallon and the second is about 13 gallon at a guess. I asked him what he wanted for them, and his response was to ask me what I would offer. I offered $100 for the pair. I hope that I did not steal them. Started to clean them up this evening as they have been sitting in a barn for years. the 13 gallon tank has quite a large dent and the other has a lot of small dents. I do not believe that the dents will cause any problem. Next up - build wheeled stands for them and a rack that will hold my filter press then start working on a blower and bubblier.

[minehart gap]

I would like to run my current plan by all of you and get feed back. It's ok if you all just tell me that I'm crazy.

Through a lot of thought. I have decided that with being off grid, I will be purchasing a Deer Run 125 Expandable RO later this summer. With this decision, there is a snowball effect pertaining to additional planning.
1. RO can not freeze. Solution: excavate and construct a root cellar with 3' earthen cover on walls and roof. There will be a concrete foundation with 8" block walls and a 6" concrete roof that will be "waterproofed" by means of tar. There will be a gravel floor with 3" drain(including a overflow drain). The root cellar will be 8' x 10' with 80" clearance.
2. Permeate will be piped into (2) 250 gallon plastic food grade tanks that will have an overflow that is connected to the previous mentioned overflow pipe. Both tank outlets will be piped together with a pipe leading to the sugar shack point of use hot water heater (new this year) and sink for washing, as well as an outlet for cleaning the RO.
3. The concentrate will be piped to a 250 gallon stainless steel bulk tank in the loft of the sugar shack via a hose with tri-clamps at both ends because it will obstruct the access road that leads to part of my woods. The tank will have a float valve that will be set at about 75 gallons with the bypass pipe leading back to my collection tank.
4. The feed tubing to the RO will be located inside a 6" casing pipe that will hopefully allow heat from inside the root cellar to the valve on the collection tank so that it does not freeze. the casing pipe will be closed at the tank end with a flip open insulated lid so as to not allow cold air into the root cellar.
5. Because I will be boiling at an increased both due to a much more efficient arch with both air over and air under fire as well as boiling concentrate instead of raw sap, Paddy Mountain pointed out that I will be drawing off at a faster rate and therefore need a auto draw-off. I have been researching homemade auto draw-offs and believe that this will be the route that I go. I am going to attempt to have a timer, collection tank low level alarm, head tank level alarm and digital stack temp display on the auto draw-off control panel.
6. Along with this, I will need a draw-off container that is large enough that I will not need to worry about it as often. I purchased, cleaned up and made legs with casters for a 15 gallon stainless steel milkhouse sink. I plan to have my 5" filter press mounted to a shelf on the draw-off tank and between firings, and when the syrup has cooled to 190 degrees, filter into tanks that will be the size that will hold the days syrup. I also purchased a 12 gallon stainless steel milkhouse sink that I plan to put on wheels to act as a backup in case I do not have time to filter while boiling.
7. In order to feed the RO, I have already purchased another 700' of main line and have 4000 feet of 3/16 on the way to bring my tap count to 320. On great sap days i may overflow my 620 gallon bulk tank and I am looking for an additional bulk tank that will also help for the next expansion.
8. There will be a insulated shed with louvers facing away from sugar shack to house my generator. There will need to be a breaker box located in the sugar shack.

What have I forgotten? what am I going to wish that I had done differently?

Other plans: I plan to expand to 500 taps and the RO will expand to 250 gph for the 2020 season, and the root cellar will be used for growing white button mushrooms in the off season.

[johnallin]

[QUOTE=minehart gap;357055]I would like to run my current plan by all of you and get feed back. It's ok if you all just tell me that I'm crazy.

Through a lot of thought. I have decided that with being off grid, I will be purchasing a Deer Run 125 Expandable RO later this summer. With this decision, there is a snowball effect pertaining to additional planning. QUOTE]

Lots of good info here; but I think this should be on another thread. This thread is about Dave.....

[maple flats]

My first question is why are you letting the syrup cool to 190? It filters better the hotter it is. Your underground bunker might work, but it would be far easier and more certain to just build a well insulated room, then heat it with a propane heater on a thermostat. If you use a Deer Run gas powered RO underground, CO2 will be an issue, it is heavier than air and can KILL.

[minehart gap]

Dave, how are you? Sorry to hear about your having to postpone your Alaska trip. That is something that I have always wanted to do. I believe that we are all praying with you.
The reason for cooling the syrup to 190 is that I have a Sheetz 5" press with a hand pump and have read that the diaphragm is rated for not hotter than 190. I have pushed it a few times but have not exceeded 200 degrees. Someday I will be big enough to warrant a filter press with a pump.
I thought a lot about insulating and heating a room and like the idea in theory but I know that with my luck, eventually the propane bottle will go empty without my being ready or the heater will break or something else will happen (Murphy's law) and I will have a frozen RO with damage. In a root cellar, I only need to make sure that the door is closed. You raise a concern with the exhaust that I had thought about but did not address in my post. I plan to connect the muffler to an oversized flex exhaust pipe and run the piping out the wall. The floor elevation for the root cellar will not be below the surrounding ground and the gasses should excape every time the door opens as well as thru the drain.

[johnallin]

[QUOTE=minehart gap;357055]
Through a lot of thought. I have decided that with being off grid, I will be purchasing a Deer Run 125 Expandable RO later this summer. With this decision, there is a snowball effect pertaining to additional planning. QUOTE]

Lots of good info here; but I think this should be on another thread. This thread is about Dave.....

Minehart...Sorry, I had this thread mixed up with Dave Klish's "On my Way"

[minehart gap]

John Allan, not a problem. I hope that you found the thread that you were looking for.
Dave, you really got me thinking and researching the exhaust issue. It seams that as long as i am increasing the diameter of the extension exhaust pipe by 1 1/2 the size of the existing exhaust pipe, there should not be restriction on the engine because of the exhaust. There is a limit on length of course, but I have not found that answer yet.

This maple addiction is kind of fun.
Its also a pain in the... but fun.

I'm headed to the sugar shack tomorrow to hang more drywall in the kitchen area and possibly installing the cabinets. Hoping to make the cupola doors swing out instead of in and start clearing the path to extend the main line this weekend too.

By the way, I have read and reread and then again I read the paper on adding air over fire. The paper stated that for a 30" wide x 8' arch, I would need a 1/2 power blower with up to 252 cfm's. I am looking to add a bounce house fan that will be equivalent to this but what I have not found an answer to is: is the blower sized to be used strictly for the air over fire or will that size blower power both air over and air under fire. I the stated blower is strictly for air over fire, how do I size a fan for air under fire? And an I correct that a fan can be used for air under fire?

[blissville maples]

I tried a bounce house fan couple years back on an older 3x10 rig....these fans have so many cfm I had to divert 80 percent of the air so the fire and Ash wasn't blowing out of the firebox since it wasn't air tight. But it does work better than nothing, just have to get a happy medium with the airflow

[minehart gap]

This morning, I stopped at Ruben Peachie's sheet metal shop near Belleville PA. Nate was showing me a bottler that he had finished. 18672
The tank could be used as a filter tank to if a frame is added. The bottler measures 12" x 12" x 24", is made of 22 guage stainless (Tig welded) and he is asking $160.00 for it if anyone is interested in one.

[minehart gap]

Had a slow June as far as maple is concerned, to busy making a little hay. Finally got a chance to get back to the sugar shack last weekend. All of the drywall in the"kitchen" is hung, built and installed the ladder for access to the loft and started to put the sub-floor down. I also got a lot of my fire wood brought to the sugar shack. I had cut and split about 3 cord but had it spread across half of my property.

Next is to finish the floor and put my head tank up there. I plan to use my 250 gallon tank but only put 50 gallon or so of concentrate in it until I get a smaller tank. Also ordering my RO. I had hoped to order it last week but life got in the way a little.

The drawoff tank is coming along. I only need to put on a elbow and valve. I plan to use a sanitary fitting on the end and be able to use a tri-clamp to connect my filter press to it.

[minehart gap]

July, finished getting almost all of the firewood. I want
to bring in anotherr pick up load but I think that enough is ready for the season at this point.

I have been doing a lot of invasive species control lately. Spice Bush and Multi Flora Rose are hard to kill. I finally found a mixture of tric, 2-4d and glysophate that works pretty well, just have to keep it away from the maples. I have a thicket that I am cleaning up and plan to plant super sweet maples there in a few years.

My bush is a mix of maple, oak and hickory with cherry and poplar mixed in. I have a lot of oaf dying. All in groups of 3 to 5 trees dead in a bunch. Not sure what's going on. I haven't sprayed in the areas that they are dying, but I was planning on expanding my taps to that area this winter. For now, I'm cutting future firewood so they don't fall on my lines but I sure would like to know why they are dying.

[minehart gap]

Hi guys, I'm looking for a little help again. I picked up my Deer Run 125 expandable RO today. I assumed (incorrectly) the the 125 was the amount of sap input. It is the rating that is assigned to the membrane and my RO's pump is at 5 gal/min or 300 gal/hr.

to add to this, at the end of the year last year, I purchased a new arch that evaporated at 34 gal/hr with not the greatest wood and no air hooked up. I am told that I can expect as much as 1/3 increase with air.

All of that means that with my average sugar content of 1.25% last year (I have a lot of red maple) my evaporation rate could be (34*1.33=45 gal/hr) and to match my RO to that rate my concentrate will be (255 gal water removal * 300 gal/hr input = 0.85% water removed per hour therefore 1.25% sap / 0.15 concentrated volume = 8.3% concentrate)

That means (using the modified Jones rule) that by putting 8.33% sap in my evaporator, or 87/8.33-1= 9.44 gallon of concentrate per gallon of syrup at 45 gal per hour evaporation could possibly yield 4.76 gallon of syrup per hour.

I was aware that I would probably need an auto drawoff but I didn't think I could get this efficient.

Last year i boiled 4 hours per gallon of syrup.

Is my math (based on assumption) correct?

[Super Sapper]

The pump reading is with no head. As you add pressure it will decrease the pumps output. The 125 it is rated for is probably pretty close to what you will get.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Matt you make the sport of sugar making look like the entire formula for the first landing on the moon. Yes you will WANT a auto draw off because you will be a busy guy and you want the consistence as much as the help. Once you get everything you have dialed in and adjusted to the best possible perimeters and you keep them there you sir will enter the blissful world of REPLICATION. Then your best friend will show up with some refreshments and all bets are off. best of luck with the up coming season. I don't understand the term "getting ready" Hell man we never stopped.

[minehart gap]

Super Sapper, the 125 RO that I picked up is the expandable model and I believe that it has the same pump that your 250 is equipped with. I believe that this is the reason for Ray's comments about the 5 gallon per minute. I also thought that with a high pressure pump, the volume into the pump is the same as the volume out of the pump out regardless of head, the pressure increases with resistance not the volume reducing but I may be incorrect about that. I will look into it.
Haynes, the term "Getting Ready" came about before my first season when I was trying to do just that. Little did I realize at that time that you never finish "getting ready". I'm looking forward to the blissful world of Replication. Maybe at that point I will be ready.

[maple flats]

Minehart, you are correct, but with just 1 membrane you will not be able to go from 2% to 8% in one pass. You will need to back off on the pressure or the RO will shut down on high pressure.
Yes, that 125 by Ray Gingerich uses the same pumps (feed and high pressure) as his 250 and the pump will move the same amount of sap, the difference is that you will not be able to make the higher concentrate in 1 pass. That will work out just fine. While I've never run a 125 by Ray, my guess is that if you start at 2% sap you might get to maybe 5.5 or so in the first pass and then to 8% or very close in a second pass. That will not be a problem. You can either run a second intermediate tank or you can simply do like I do with my 250. If I start at 2% I run it to 7.5-8% in one pass into the head tank, then I draw from the evaporator feed line from the head tank, back thru the RO and pump the new higher concentrate back into the head tank. I feed my head tank near the top on one end and the evaporator feed line is at the opposite end of the head tank. One my second pass I just run the RO continuously but at a lower pressure. I run 1st pass at about 270-275 PSI and back off for 2nd pass to about 240-250 PSI for best results. When the head tank level gets low (I'm boiling at the same time) in about 60-75 minutes, I just open the sap feed valve the the RO as I close the recirculate valve.
On that 125 I suspect there are 2 needle valves, just like my 250. The smaller one is for recirculation. The more you open that valve the less total output you will have from the concentrate hose, but the higher the sugar % will be. I suspect with a 125 using the 250 pump you can likely have that valve open more that I do on my 250, thus getting to a higher sugar % out the concentrate. That will all just take practice. I suggest you get a good sap hydrometer that will read to 10% or even 12%. Use a long hydrometer, the short ones are harder to get an accurate reading, but even they are better than nothing.

[maple flats]

One other point, as the pressure rises the volume drops. The HP pump is not a linear flow, it varies by the pressure, more pressure less flow and less pressure more flow.
When I say you will not be able to run at the same pressure as if you had a second membrane I should correct that, you may be able to still run at 275 PSI but the needle valve will likely be open more than if you had 2 membranes, and at that pressure you should get to about the 5.5% (if the sap was 2%). With about 1/2 gpm of concentrate and 1.5 GPM of permeate. If you someday add a second membrane you will then get about 1 gpm of concentrate and about 3 gpm of permeate flow if you run it at about 275 PSI.
After talking at length with minehart gap on the phone last evening and based on info Matt got from Ray Gingerich, I must amment my calculations. According to Ray (he manufactures the 125 Deer Run RO), since the pump is the same one used on his 250 GPH RO, it still will move about 250 GPH, the difference is the % of concentrate and permeate that results with a 125. In that case the RO will give a ratio of 50-50 or up to 60-40, with those percentages in relation to 250 GPH. Once the fog was cleared from my thinking that makes perfect sense.
Sorry if I messed up anyone's calculations. I forgot the pump was still moving about 250 gph, the difference was just that a 125 has 1 4x40 membrane and a 250 has 2.

[pdiamond]

Check out your states dnr website. It sounds like oak wilt usually happens between may and august according to the michigan dnr website. the only way to stop it is by cutting and burning. it can spread through the root systems too. hopefully this will give you a place to start. good luck with the sugar bush.

[minehart gap]

Ordered and received my Auber Instrument auto drawoff control and probe and just received my Echotech valve. The footer for the root cellar was poured in the rain last Friday and the first 3 courses of block got laid today.

I've read and reread everything that I can find on RO's but I'm still unsure. I have thought about tapping a few birch this fall to try it out.

pdiamond, thanks. I read about oak wilt and believe that may be what I have. I will be cutting those trees up this winter for next years fuel.
Dave, thanks for the conversation, it cleared up a lot. I think that I just need to get my RO running and get used to it.

BTW, how does everyone find out about the different trainings and get togethers. I know about the one coming up at the New York state Fair grounds but missed one this past weekend. Are there any in PA? There is of course the tour in the spring but I'm looking more for classes or lectures.

[maple flats]

There are a few ways to find classes and lectures. First, click on "new posts", then look for new posts under "maple resources" towards the bottom of the main page and finally look under the various state associations (lower ,below maple resources) and another place is to watch the "sugar Inn" near the top.
Info on those can appear in any of those areas. Maybe we also need a new section, "upcoming events". I will look into that.

[maple flats]

I forwarded that thought to the Forum owner.

[minehart gap]

Dave, could it be as easy as utilizing the calendar, I see it's last update was nearly a year ago. Or does that have a different purpose?

[maple flats]

My last update was only about 3-4 weeks ago. By the way Matt, you have the newest version.
Dave

[minehart gap]

Cave is now done, poured the floor yesterday and finished backfilling. I will hang the door for the colder weather in the forecast. Also put a 3 bowl sink in the sugar shack so I can comply with the inspection. Hung another 500' of mainline last weekend and started rehanging laterals (I take them down at the end of the season).

This coming week, I hope to have all of the wiring run so I can have light in the evenings and hang more laterals. It's all coming together nicely now. Should have everything ready to tap before going to the New York Convention.

[Sugarmaker]

minehart,
Missed you at the Lake Erie Maple Expo (LEME) Nov 10 2018 in Albion Pa 16401. See you next year! Good luck with your season.
Regards,
Chris

[tombaisley]

I did a test boil today on my Mason 2x4 XL inside my new 10'x12' sap shack. I have a 2'x4' cuppola, a door on either side of the shack, and 3 windows. When the pan came up to a full rolling boil I had steam floor to roof peak and you could not see to the other side of the building. That was with the doors and windows open. Is possible water produces more steam? I think I might have a problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vZj2hHkXpKSBJqJFA

[maple flats]

Not enough difference to see. A hood will correct that. However sometimes weather conditions do make it much worse than others.
I made my first 3 hoods, on 3 different evaporators, a 2x3, a 2x6 and a 3x8 (with it's initial set of pans). Then when I bought new pans the manufacturer of the pans had a demo hood that had some very minor dents on one side and they gave me a deal I could not pass up. I had planned to make a new set of hoods but their price saved me the time and cost of materials to make it. Besides, their's is nicer but no more functional. The 3 I made, 2 were out of aluminum flashing the third was made from 3x8' sheets of aluminum and all used 1x1x1 aluminum channel for the gutter, mitered and welded at the corners. For that part I used aluminum rod that uses a propane or Mapp gas torch. I bought that at TSC.

[Super Sapper]

As Dave said weather conditions can cause that. You also need to boil for a while to get it too draft the steam out. Once the evaporator and Stacy warm up it usually clears up.

[Ultimatetreehugger]

Over the last two weeks ran 2600+ feet of mains including a high rise vacuum line over the town road. Purchased 2 new tanks, that will be here mid January. Putting a new stainless tank in a pump house that needs to be built in the next few weeks. Before the season starts I need to run about 500 new taps worth of sap line. Loving every minute of it.

[minehart gap]

Tombaisley, you stated that your cupola is 2'x4' but what size are they openings?. I believe that I read that the openings need to be the same area as your evaporator.

Yesterday was a very humid day and the pressure was about right for the steam to just hang around and fill the shack. Dave is right, a hood would solve that. I have never seen one but I have heard that some have made hoods with plastic. Maybe do a search.

Isn't getting ready for the season just as much fun as making the syrup!!! Getting ready just costs more.

[maple flats]

Plasic indeed. On a summer sugar house tour maybe 12-13 years ago, we visited one sugar house that had several blue and a few red ribbons hanging on one wall from the New York State Fair syrup competition. That sugar house looked crude. It had a dirt floor and the only equipment in it was a large filter press. I believe it was a single full bank 10" unit. He had a hood made out of furring strips and covered by clear poly. It hung from the ceiling and came down a few inches outside the pans. It hung about 8-10" below the top of the pans. On each side he had a way to raise roughly 2' of the bottom so he could clean the pans. His evaporator was a 4x14, but he had no RO. He boiled about 3500-4000 on vacuum taps on that, and they all flowed to the sugarhouse to his head tank. I don't recall how he protected the poly by the stack. I can't ask him either, he was also a dairy farmer and he got fed up with it, sold everything and moved to the Rockies and became a guide.

[steve J]

Tom I also have a mason 2x4 with a blower. Although I have swapped my pan for a Leader supreme pan. My opening in cupola is 2x4 and I have the same issue. What I have found is if I leave the door in front of my shack open 3 to 4 inches that the cold air coming in drives the steam up into the cupola and out. My shack is 10x16 so I am a bit bigger. My supreme pan was new for the last week of the season last year. And my steam issue seem to be less even though I was evaporating at a much faster rater than with the Mason pan. I cant explain that.

[minehart gap]

A combination of humidity, two different temperatures at the same location and barometric pressure is what causes steam to linger in your sugar shack. It is the same combination that makes fog stay around. You can't change any of those variables unless you make the reaction to happen somewhere else. The door being open has the same force as the draft created by the pipe on top of the hood, it just moves the fog to a more appropriate location. I haven't tried it but I think a section of piping and a whirlybird on top would work too.

[tombaisley]

Today i added a 2'x2' adjustable vent at floor level, right next to the evaporator, I also added a 2'x16" "door" in the gable peak. I did another test boil today and for the first hour I had steam everywhere floor to ceiling, As the the shack started to warm up inside the steam issue improved markedly. After 2 hours i could stand and my head was not in steam. Now I need to replace the wood i burnt, and get my sap collecting equipment in order.

[GramaCindy]

I find that each and every time that I start up a boil, I have to tweek so to speak, the cupola doors and windows to find the "sweet spot" for enough air intake to make up for all of the air and steam going out. I agree, a hood will definitely help.

[minehart gap]

Yahoo!!!!!! Just passed my first PA Dept. of Ag. Food Establishment inspection. I know that a lot of you have already gone through this and passed but you got to admit, the first time is kind of exiting. A whole lot of work went into a hour and a half inspection. Now I can relax for a day or two until its time to start tapping (like thats going to happen).

[Chickenman]

Good for you. I know the feeling. The first time our restaurant was inspected the inspector said to my wife and I, "I would eat here". We were walking on clouds that day. He said the same thing the second year too. We miss Harry. Hope he's enjoying retirement. ( were inspected by Dept of Ag because of our convenience store selling farm eggs and cheese.

[Abattoir]

Yahoo!!!!!! Just passed my first PA Dept. of Ag. Food Establishment inspection. I know that a lot of you have already gone through this and passed but you got to admit, the first time is kind of exiting. A whole lot of work went into a hour and a half inspection. Now I can relax for a day or two until its time to start tapping (like thats going to happen).
Going to be honest I was pleasantly surprised with this story. Congratulations!

[minehart gap]

Had our first boil this evening. I am impressed to say the least with our Deer Run RO. We got the 125 expandable. 200 gallon from bulk tank through the RO and boiled in 2 1/2 hours. Last year our average was 16 gallon per hour evaporation. I only ran the sap through once but what a difference. AUF/AOF worked wonders. And it's really cool to have the digital temperature readout on the auto drawoff.

I have a few bugs to get worked out, my float box/valve for my syrup pan did not do well at all and I need to figure out what to do with the concentrate line when I clean my RO. Also need to figure out the alarm on my Auber auto drawoff. I had some problems with it before season that bricklayer helped me with and may need to get in touch with him again. I don't quite understand parts of that manual.

All in all, great first boil.

[minehart gap]

I'm not quite sure which of the improvements made for this season I like the best. The front pan float box really makes life a lot easier. Last year the front pan was controlled with a ball valve so it constantly needed watched and changed.

The auto drawoff allows constant monitoring of the syrup temperature so I am able to adjust my fire feed time to get my best boil until I am able to get a thermometer in the flue.

The AOF/AUF picked up my boil to the point that I was not able to see my sap level most of the time.

The RO is just plain awesome. Talk about a time saver. This year will be a lot more fun than before.

[Paddymountain]

You'll save that much time you can come over the mountain and help me!!!!!!

[minehart gap]

I have completely overlooked one aspect of running a RO. My pans take about 480 gallon to sweeten (if i have calculated correctly). As of Valentines Day I had collected 810 gallon of sap but was only able to get to 15% in my pan, of coarse I had reduced the sap to about 2/3 volume. On the 15th, I finally mad syrup!!!

The Auber auto-draw off worked beautifully (I still haven't had time to look at the alarm). I needed to increase the depth in the front pan because of the volume of a draw due to the blower and fan giving a hotter fire. My temperature probe would be above the syrup level after about 45 seconds of the draw and therefore close the valve and then as soon as the front pan would fill up again, there would be another draw. I slowed down my throttle valve (before my drawoff valve) as much I could until the syrup temperature would rise about 1.5 degrees above syrup temp. then I determined that I just needed to raise the sap level in the front pan. That slowed things down for a little bit. Something that I need to look for is the formula for determining the boiling point of water based on pressure and elevation. Does anyone have that equation?

I did something very wrong when I attempted to filter the syrup. I mixed the earth and pumped it through the filter press and when finished the syrup was a muddy mess. This is the same press that I had last year and did not have any problems. There was absolutely no earth on the papers and I am positive that the waffle plates and cavity plates were installed in the correct direction. The only thought that I have is that I had installed the papers just out of position enough that the holes were allowing everything through and not filter anything. big mistake.

[minehart gap]

I picked up bottles last Monday, our new labels arrived yesterday from Syrup Labels (they really look good), have syrup waiting and the sap is flowing like mad. Oh, and I spent yesterday afternoon cleaning the RO and washed the evaporator. Weather looks like it's going to be a great week or longer.

[Cjadamec]

When adjusting your boiling point temp you only need to take into account your local observed atmospheric pressure. It the pressure that matters not the elevation.

The basic equation is this:

BPcorr = BPobs – (Pobs – 760mmHg) x 0.045 oC/mmHg

BPcorr - is boiling point at sea level 100C
BPobs - is the temperature corrected for pressure degrees C
Pobs - is the local pressure measured by your barometer in mmHg

So this morning based on the accuweather pressure (769.62 mmHg) in Grainville PA your boiling point of pure water is

100C = BPobs - (769.62mmHg - 760 mmHg) x 0.045 C/mmHg

Solve for BPobs you get

BPobs = 100 - (769.63-760) x 0.045
BPobs = 99.567C (which is 211.22F in American units)

Before you think I'm smart I just copied this from this webpage (https://sciencing.com/determine-boiling-points-pressure-7678378.html).

Depending on the accuracy of your draw off thermometer this calculation might be a little bit of over kill.

[raptorfan85]

This site is pretty helpful as well. It atomaticaly adjusts for elevation and barometric pressure

https://www.saptapapps.com/

[minehart gap]

Thanks guys. Very helpful. I do use saptapapp a lot and love the app. It helps me keep track of sap flow and sap forecast. I have used the syrup temperature application exclusively to this point but I always double check with a hydrometer and lately (after waiting for the syrup to reach the correct temperature) I have been drawing off a little early.

Please don't think that I am complaining about the ap. I just figure that I need to be able to calculate this by myself so that I am sure.

Also, thanks for the formula. I'll now be able to calculate syrup temperature from the sugar shack. I think that it is pretty cool how the boil will change as the pressure changes.

[minehart gap]

I hope that today is as beautiful everywhere in the sugaring world as it is right now in central PA. Have a great rest of your season everyone.

[minehart gap]

Received a draft copy of an energy audit that was compiled for my sugaring operation the other day. I have some improvements to make. First off will be a point of use hot water heater then a larger RO and new pans.

Finished building a woodshed about a week ago and my little wife and I finished up putting 4 chord of firewood in it today. It will hold 6 chord total but the pressure is off with 4 in the dry. Now it's on to planting a wildflower field (about an acre) and more invasive control. I have 1 tree of heaven that will not die.

A F2 tornado took out about 50 acres of trees on the state forest land beside my sugar bush. They want to sell a salvage cut using my right of way. I don't have any problem with that as long as they put the road back in passable condition and are not transporting logs while I am making syrup. If any of you have experience with this sort of thing, feel free to give me pointers.

[buckeye gold]

If the state forester is running the salvage job it should be fine. Just tell them you want a written agreement that they will maintain the road. They'll spend money a private logger won't and be conscious of land use. They are in the conservation business and making every dollars is not top priority. Still the work is only as good as the person doing it, thus the written agreement.

[maple flats]

A question, is the land to be logged only going to be hard enough to do it in the winter when things are frozen up? If not hard ground, getting them to do it before you are doing maple might be an issue. Getting them to fix any damage from using the ROW should be required, but they might be logging during maple season. If the ground is hard at other times they can most likely do it at another time of year.

[minehart gap]

The ground in the area of the tornado is fairly stable. Keep in mind that I say that and hundreds of trees just blew over so there are hundreds of pockets for water to accumulate where the root balls once were and that has a tendency to change things. A written agreement will be a must for the access. And in the agreement will be the condition of the road and exact specifications for it's surface and how surface water will be handled. The logging during sugar season is out of the question unless they want to buy my expected syrup for the year. I'm not standing to gain anything here, but I don't want to loose anything either.

Cleaning rocks out of my 1 acre field today so that I can disc it and plant a wildflower seeds mix. I had a conversation with the state forrester yesterday and he said that if I have a wildflower field, when the logger is finished with the salvage cut, that they would plant the log landing with wildflowers also. I'm hoping to have enough polinators to establish a bee hive or two but protecting them from bear will be a challenge. Next is to continue spice bush control.

[minehart gap]

So my wife and I sat down and did a lot of contemplating over the last few weeks. When I received my energy management plan, it seems that I could be doing a lot better energy wise and when I started looking into items that are recommend, I need electricity. Talking to the power company ($69k to install, that will not happen) and a few electricians, we concluded that it would be better if our sugar shack was relocated to our house property. I'm only coming up with 2 downfalls to this plan: 1. A lot of work to move it but that only will happen once and 2. I will have to truck sap. The up sides are convenience, available electric, hot water and heat, a lot easier to access oh and it will be a lot easier to convince the little lady to help if it's in the back yard instead of halfway up the mountain. I believe that I may have my summer's work lined up for me.

[mol1jb]

No option of solar at shack?

[maple flats]

Look into solar, I ran my sugarhouse on solar (and a generator) for 4 years before tying into the grid. PM me and I can give you some info. I started with 4 panels and grew as money was available, I now have 30 panels and I produce more power each year than I use, even though I now have an electric vacuum pump, and I converted my gaspowered RO to electric. I started with a 48V 240 AH Lead Acid battery bank, projected to last 7 years, it last 11 years.
I'm just now replacing that bank with a LiFePo4 battery bank. While using lead/acid is old school, the LiFePo4 is taking over. It has a comparable cost, if you assemble your oun battery, just buy prismatic cells online. If you buy ready assembled batteries, they cost 2-3x as much as doing it yourself. Watch some u-tube videos by a guy named Will Prowse, a young guy who knows the Lithium, Iron Phosphate batteries (LiFePo4). Advantages of those batteries are many, but I think the main 2 are that you can use far more of the power before they get hurt. A Lead Acid gets damaged if you use more than 50% of the energy stored in a fully charged battery, on the LiFePo4 they work well down to about 15%, and you can draw even more but it shortens their life. On lead acid a typical life is 500-800 cycles, on lithium if you only charge them to 90% and down to 15% you will get close to 4000-5000 cycles. When you charge (on solar) the lead acid they are about 80-85% efficient at storing the energy put to it, LiFePo4 is about 99% efficient. On lead acid you can't draw continuous high amps without damage, on LiFePo4 you can. The main thing you need with LiFePo4 is a battery management system (BMS) to keep all of the cells in balance, on lead acid you put an equalizing charge in (higher voltage for a hour or 2) to get the cells in balance.
Look into solar and maybe wind if you have a site where wind is good, according to the wind charts, not just what it seems to you.

[minehart gap]

I did look into solar. Still pretty expensive considering that I would still need to invest in the solar system, a water heater, a heat system and the access if I ever want guests or customers to come to the sugar shack.

Talking to several of you guys in the past, maple weekends are good for sales and I just can't get people there. I am nearly sure that solar would work but that only solves part of the issues that I am facing. Thank you for your input though.

I just finished up a honey do project and then we started moving everything out of the shack. I didn't realize how much stuff that I had cramped into the loft of the sugar shack. The only things left to move are the arch and a 30 gallon canner. Then start disassemble

[mol1jb]

I did look into solar. Still pretty expensive considering that I would still need to invest in the solar system, a water heater, a heat system and the access if I ever want guests or customers to come to the sugar shack.

Talking to several of you guys in the past, maple weekends are good for sales and I just can't get people there. I am nearly sure that solar would work but that only solves part of the issues that I am facing. Thank you for your input though.

I just finished up a honey do project and then we started moving everything out of the shack. I didn't realize how much stuff that I had cramped into the loft of the sugar shack. The only things left to move are the arch and a 30 gallon canner. Then start disassemble

Sounds like you have a good handle on it. If your selling, location is a key factor and I bet your new shack location will help with sales. And will all that you will be gaining with electricity, having to haul sap probably won't seem that bad.

[maple flats]

Question, what is in between the old location and the new? Can you pump the sap from old to new?

[minehart gap]

Question, what is in between the old location and the new? Can you pump the sap from old to new?

There is about a mile and a half and my house is on the north side of the road with the sugar bush located on the south side of the same road. I will be looking into piping as gravity would be an option just a long distance. I'm not looking into that just yet but probably in a year or so. Good idea.

[minehart gap]

Received exciting news today. My township has reviewed everything and I have the go ahead. For most of the new sugar house build, I meet exemptions. I like when everything comes together. Now I need to do all of the joint work on the timbers for a timberframe structure. I'm going for a showpiece. Figure if I'm doing it, I'll do my best or why bother.

[Paddymountain]

You will be happy with your sugarshack at the house! Running water and electricity makes a world of difference!

[minehart gap]

After a busy summer, I'm finally getting back to syrup stuff. Over the summer, my wife and I disassembled the sugar shack and moved it to the house. We decided to locate the sugar shack in a corner of our pasture so that meant moving some fence and I decided to move the barn further away so a wild spark doesn't catch it on fire. The new site has underground electric, water and drain run to it, site is leveled and pouring concrete tomorrow morning.

[minehart gap]

I am not understanding what is going on in my evaporator. I have a 26" wide, 8' long raised flue wood fired evaporator. I have been concentrating my sap to 8+% consistently. I boiled on the Feb.25th but not again until March 1st because the temperature didn't get above freezing. On ty 1st, I had a short lived foam problem and now realize why. On March 2, when I boiled again, I started my fire, went to drop in defoamer and noticed something different, my back pan was full on ropey sap. Quickly put out the fire then drained everything and cleaned. The whole time I am concentrating my days sap. The next afternoon, I added more sap and concentrated all sap to 8%. Started my fire thinking that I would now need to sweeten the pans again as everything was fresh sap just like beginning of season. I made my normal amount of syrup that evening just like every boil since sweetening my pans at beginning of season. Why didn't I have to sweeten the pans. Mathematics says that I shouldn't have syrup for another 122 gallon of sap. Is there something different after the pans are sweetened once? I also had the best evaporation rate I have seen on this rig. Just don't understand (but am happy) why.

[minehart gap]

After working on the honey-do list all spring and into summer, I finally got back to getting ready for the upcoming maple syrup season.

Installing vacuum this year. Talked to Haynes Forest Products for about 2 hours today figuring out how to get high vac out of a dairy vacuum pump. Haynes is still alive and seems to be doing well. It's always a good time talking with Haynes, his analogies usually are pretty funny.

[minehart gap]

My next improvement will be to incorporate a pump on my sheetz 5" filter press.
I was looking at Bascom filter pumps and noticed an electric pump sold by CDL. My concern is that there is a note that states no warranty. When I looked up the pump, it is only rated for 140 degrees.
I like the idea of an electric pump, already have electricity at the sugar house. Looking around, I found this pump: AMT Pumps 5475-98 High Volume SS Straight Centrifugal Pump. The 1/2 horse version pumps 35 gpm at 50' equivalent head and 200 degrees and is stainless steel. My question is, will this work? How much pressure is required to push syrup through a 5" filter press? I can convert psi to feet of head easy enough but I do not know what pressure is needed. Anyone that has a pressure gauge on there filter press, please help.

[johnallin]

Pretty sure my press is 50 psi max.

[minehart gap]

Thank you John. I think that I may try the electric pump.