Running Power to Sugarbush

[evanstj]

I would like to run power to my sugarbush. It is about 4000 feet and would like to run power to it. I am just wondering if anyone has done this before or has any ideas if it is possible and what I would need. I am looking at getting a Atlas Copco GVS 150 rotary vane pump, so this is what it would need to run. Thanks

[maple flats]

Running the right size vacuum line might be cheaper by far. Get info on what size would be needed for that distance. Talk to Glen Goodrich or Steve Childs if necessary.

[WVKeith]

evanstj:

From what I can see on the web, the Atlas Copco GVS 150 vacuum pump uses a 5hp 3-phase motor at either 230 or 460 volts. Obviously, there can be a lot of complications with getting access to 3-phase power.

However, if you have 3-phase power 4000 feet from the sugar house, then you need to determine a cable size. Depending on the overall efficiency of the motor, it should draw about 10 -14 amps at 220 V and half that at 460 V (Atlas Copco may have better information on the current draw, in particular at start-up). From home wiring, we know that a #12 wire will carry 20 amps without overheating, but in this case, the problem is not one of overheating the cable, but rather a problem in reducing the voltage drop to the motor over the 4000 ft of cable. A general rule-of-thumb is that the voltage drop should be less than 10% to keep from harming the motor. Using a table of electrical resistance for industrial 3-phase cables, I find that at 12 amps, a #5 AWG cable would have a 20 volt drop and a #4 AWG cable would have a 16 volt drop.

[wmick]

Would be good to know what type of electrical service you have... The pump you spec'd seems to only come in 3-phase. Do you actually have a 3 phase service?

Recommendation (Code, actually) says we need to limit voltage drop to less than 5%... This is a huge challenge at that distance..
The higher the voltage is, makes a positive impact on how far you can run.. This is why utility lines are very high voltage... It also makes the motor amperage lower.
Assuming you have 460V 3 phase service and cheat a bit on the voltage drop, you might get away with an 8 AWG cable... which in weatherproof and the voltage rating you want.. will cost thousands of dollars.
If you dont have a 3 phase service it will only get worse for you.

Seems to me you may want to just invest in a generator.??

[maple flats]

Use this link to calculate voltage drop. Will you be at 277V 3 ph or something else. The higher the voltage the lighter the wire can be for a given voltage.
http://www.nooutage.com/vdrop.htm
Then do some price checks at a full line electrical supply house. That will not be a Big Box Store item.

[evanstj]

I guess I should have put a little more information in my first post. I am looking at getting the pump from MES, so it comes with a Cerus Titan P VFD which converts single phase to three phase. They said the pump would require 30.1 amps. From Home Depot I can get 1000 foot rolls of 2-2-2 stranded aluminum wire underground wire for 87 cents a foot. I was thinking that this would be cheaper and easier than running tubing.

[Potters3]

I would call the power company, they will know what and how much $ to get power to the house. That is what I did, I was lucky there is a pole 150' from my sugarhouse. The power company is going to have you filll out a worksheet with all power needs. Current and future, if it is just a remote vac pump, light shouldn't be to bad.

[wmick]

I guess I should have put a little more information in my first post. I am looking at getting the pump from MES, so it comes with a Cerus Titan P VFD which converts single phase to three phase. They said the pump would require 30.1 amps. From Home Depot I can get 1000 foot rolls of 2-2-2 stranded aluminum wire underground wire for 87 cents a foot. I was thinking that this would be cheaper and easier than running tubing.

I'm a bit confused... - Are you planning to install the VFD at your power source and run the 3 phase 4000 ft?? This sounds strange... firstly because I assume you will want to be at the pump when starting it,, and I assume you will be using the VFD to start and control the pump.. Secondly - Lots of complications arise from too long of cable runs between a VFD and a motor.

If you are planning to run your 30Amp single phase 4000 ft to the VFD then I'm afraid your 2-2-2 Aluminum wont handle it..
plug your numbers into this link.. http://www.nooutage.com/vdrop.htm

I used 30A at 220V and am coming up with about 30% voltage drop on 2 awg aluminum.

[meadster02]

to go 4000 feet your going to need primary voltage from your power company

[One tap short]

I think he wants to run the main power source from the grid and then to the VFD which would be next to the vacuum pump. That's the way I would do it anyways. I am going to be running power 1600 feet from the grid power source this year but that is only to power a pump and a light inside of the vacuum house. Lost lots of sap last year due to trying to keep a generator running while working a full time job. Live and learn.

[PCFarms]

We have a similar situation - 3000 feet to our pump house, and we run about 3300 taps from there. There is a 7.5 HP 3 phase vacuum with VFP/phase converter, a 1.5 HP transfer pump and a 1 HP releaser.
In the end we settled on buying a pair of transformers. We stepped up the 240V single phase power at the house up to 600V, ran it through aluminum cables, stepped it down to 240V at the pump house, and then distributed it from there. The transformers were 1000 bucks each, and the cable was much cheaper as it was a much thinner gauge. In the end we ended up paying about 6k for the materials and electrican's time to wire the transformers.