Wet dry system

[Ultimatetreehugger]

Has anyone tried a wet dry line system on a diaphragm pump? Would there be any benefit? I'm setting up a new bush and this question has been nagging my brain. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

[maple flats]

Not that I've heard of. When using a diaphragm pump, it will move both air and sap, but it does far better when the diaphragms are wet.

[VT_K9]

We ran a diaphragm pump for two years prior to switching to a vacuum system. The change was not a result of the "sap puller" being good enough, but wanting to expand the overall system. The diaphragm pumps cannot handle ladders, thus not in a position to take advantage of some of the benefits of a wet/dry system. I think you would end up with more space to "fill" with vacuum and with the added joints an opportunity for more leaks, which can really impact a diaphragm system.

In fact the near run we are putting in with have a 1 1/4" mainline and we will use our diaphragm pump for this year. This will save the time and expense of running a vac. line and putting a releaser at the tank. We are looking to possibly run a 1" dry line on the system when we switch over to our vacuum system.

Good luck,

Mike

[Ultimatetreehugger]

Thanks for your replies, I wanted to do all the set up at once but I gather I should wait to set up the dryline? Would I be better off going with a larger diameter mainline? This is a system that is going to expanded on over the years.

[n8hutch]

How many feet of mainline? I had 1000ft of 1" up this year and about 20000 feet of lateral lines, and I think I was definitely pushing the limits of a single diaphragm guzzler pump, if the sap was running I was pulling 26" at the end of my 1" mainline, and allmost all my laterals were 3/16. So not using much cfm to maintain those lines. I don't think there would be much benefit at all in running a Dry line if you are going to run 3/16 laterals. I would just oversize your mainline and try to run a constant slope. If you are going to run 5/16 there may be benefitsome hard to say.

[VT_K9]

We started on tubing years ago (late 80's) and used 1/2" for some mains and 3/4" for some mains. This was on a gravity system. We started our sap puller with all 3/4" mains. We did an upgrade the second year to a 1" mainline with some lateral 3/4" mainlines. We also re-ran the sap lines to follow the vacuum theory. What a difference.

Imagine a 10' section of straight tubing (for worst case think about a second of PVC or copper pipoe)...support both ends and walk about half way down the tubing. Put a little (10-15 lbs) down pressure. While doing this have somebody sight through the tubing. I am confident that with all but the L copper you will bend the tubing so you cannot see through it.

The support wire, wire ties, tubing, and sap will create enough weight over the distance between your support trees/posts to create a sag. I think you will find it does not take much to create blockage and then have that blockage freeze (expand to fit the pipe) and cause issues which will take hours of sun light to fix before the new sap flow can pass through that spot.

I sighted along some of my 3/4" runs and I could see where that was a possibility. I have since shortened the distance between my support points and also limited the use of 3/4" in the sugar bush. Not to say the 3/4" is not appropriate, but for the cost difference between it and 1" I will go 1" during my future upgrades and replacements. I have a 500 foot roll of 3/4" to use up and will install it on good slopes as laterals.

The new run will be 1 1/4" blue and will run about 800' from the end point to the sap shack (puller this year and releaser after next). I'll have a 1" extension for about 200' off the end of it ( re-run of a current line to allow for equipment to access the woods year round). Then a few 1" laterals on the flatter areas and 3/4" on he steeper slopes. The specs for lines say a 1" line would handle this new run, but here the cost difference was not much and it would be neat to see if there is any reduction in ice build up compared to the other mainline. I hope to add about 400 taps this year and know this area has many more I will build out to pick up using this mainline. There are probably anouther 800 taps running a mainline to another area of the property. I like the idea of a dry line running as a wet line when the wet line is frozen. That is where I see an advantage in our current 1" mainline. If I can get away with no ice jams on a 1 1/4" mainline I may not install a dry line. This would save money and labor (more money in some cases), maybe a lot more than the cost of going to ` /`4" from 1".

Mike

[VT_K9]

How many feet of mainline? I had 1000ft of 1" up this year and about 20000 feet of lateral lines, and I think I was definitely pushing the limits of a single diaphragm guzzler pump, if the sap was running I was pulling 26" at the end of my 1" mainline, and allmost all my laterals were 3/16. So not using much cfm to maintain those lines. I don't think there would be much benefit at all in running a Dry line if you are going to run 3/16 laterals. I would just oversize your mainline and try to run a constant slope. If you are going to run 5/16 there may be benefitsome hard to say.

When you say laterals, do you mean sap lines or lateral mainlines (3/4" or similar)? 20,000 feet is a lot either way. I think a single diaphragm is rated for about 400 taps and double is good up to about 800.

When we re-ran our mainlines, lateral mainlines, and sap lines from a gravity system to a vacuum system we were running a 1" mainline which was 400 long. Then we had several runs of 3/4" lateral mainlines and 330 taps on 5/16" line. Only one or two sap line runs were close to 100 feet. Most were closer to 50-75 feet. I would estimate about 2,600' of mainline (between 1" and 3/4") and 2,500' of 5/16" sap line. I had no problem maintaining 26" of vacuum as long as I kept my joints tight. 15" of vacuum meant 2-3 taps were loose (bad seal around the barb) or on tap not in the tree.

Mike