newbie beekeeping

[barnbc76]

Hey guys, i know many of you keep bees so I thought I'd ask this question here since I can't seem to get the beekeeping forum to work for me (technical difficulties on my side.)

Anyways I caught a swarm today, they were starting a hive in the walls of my house while I was in the middle of siding. Anyway I found the major cluster of them, swept them in a box and put them into a beebox which my neighbor so graciously lent me (the smoker and suit too). I know very little about keeping bees, ok next to nothing. I heard that if the bees are fanning that means the queen is here, is this true? Because the bees were fanning. My neighbor gave up after loosing his bees 2/3 years. Should I have done something to clean them? Also which box or boxes of frames should I use in this case. He gave me one he called a deep and one smaller. The bees are in the smaller one now.

Any comments or suggestions on where to place my new box, and info on winterizing would be good too.

I know my chances here in western NY are slim to none that they will survive but if there is what would you suggest. If nothing else I got to do something I've always wanted, maybe next year I could start new. Thanks guys.

[miboss]

You most likely got the queen if they were still clustered.

A couple things to keep in mind when catching a swarm. Try to keep the box you put them in close to where they were swarming, they can still smell the queen and you'll end up getting a lot of the scouts/foragers that were out when you hived them.

Ideally, if you had access to a frame of open brood (eggs), that would keep them in their new home, giving them some young to take care of, but since this is your first hive and your neighbor doesn't keeps bees any more, you'll just have to make do. Don't worry, I caught 3 swarms this year and didn't put any open brood in and they stayed.

Next to keep in mind is just leave them alone for a week in their new home. If you bother them too much by peeking in, they may abscond. After the week of leaving them alone, check for eggs/larva, if you find them, the queen stayed.

Now the hard part...

Being in NY you're going to have some cold long winters so they will need to build up some reserves ASAP. Luckily, you may have a large goldenrod flow on. That will help, but won't be enough to make it through winter, so you're going to have to feed them sugar. This page describes how to make 2:1 sugar syrup (http://beekeepersguild.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29&Itemid=49), get a feeder and keep them fed as long as they keep taking it or before it freezes. In OH, they say it's best to have 10 deep frames of honey to make it through the winter, so I would aim for that at a minimum. You'll probably need to get a second deep from your neighbor. Once it turns cold, you can also feed them fondant.

Good luck!

[mudr]

Yeah, you will need to feed feed feed. I caught a swarm back in late July that I am somewhat worried about. It's September now.

Also, check out the WNY Beekeepers Facebook page. Really helpful folks with knowledge tailored to our local climate and nectar resources. I see you are from newstead, the moderator is from Akron and is very helpful


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[barnbc76]

Thanks guys, can I move them now that most are in the box? They are right next to my house now. I do have many fields of goldenrod, we're good there, I tried feeding the bees today but I have no feeder any suggestions where to get one?

Should I stack the deep on top of the half (they are in the smaller box now) the quantity of bees seemed to take up 3 frames as far as I could tell, with some stragglers still in the wall.

[mudr]

So it sounds like you've got them in a 5 frame nuc right now, right? You can overwinter double nucs (nuc box on nuc), or a single deep, or preferably a double deep. I wouldn't try to mix a nuc and deep box.

If it were me, I'd transfer the frames into a 10 frame box and leave that box in the same spot as where the nuc was for another day or so. If you want to move it, wait until it is dark, close off enterance, and move to a new location.

There are some problems with moving a hive. The old saying is move the hive less than 3 feet or more than 3 miles at a time. Anything in between can cause them to get lost, they are unable to recognize features in the landscape and navigate. You can force them to "re-orient" by putting a tree branch or large piece of wood in front of the enterance at the same time you move it. In the morning they try to fly out, see stuff in the way that they don't recognize, and do a new orientation flight. I've never done it, but have read about it.

I use mason jars as feeders. Take a piece of plywood, cut it to the shape of the top of the box, and cut a hole in the plywood the same size as the mason jar ring. Poke a bunch of TINY holes in the lid (size of the tip of a finish nail), tip jar upside down into the hole in plywood, and put plywood on top of the hive box. Cheap and easy.

Warning- I'm still new at this, and there are lots of ways to raise bees.

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[barnbc76]

Thanks, the box is not a nuc box, it has 10 frames I believe but is shallower than the other box. I need to educate myself more on all the proper terms. I will use the Mason jar feeder idea. Any preference to specific placement of the hive, wooded, open field? Water supply is close anywhere on my property and wild flowers grow everywhere.

[mudr]

I like the mason jar. Cheap, like me.

Sheltered from driving winter winds but in the open to get sunlight and let things dry out.

So your box is a 10 frame either medium (6ish inch tall frames) or a shallow. While you can keep bees in any size box you want, the vast majority of beeks use deeps for the brood area. Some use all mediums. It does not really matter and it laregly comes down to personal choice, but it would take a lot of shallow boxes (4? 5?) To equal the same brood area as 2 deeps. That's a lot of frames to buy, and that much more to handle when doing a hive inspection. I assume the most common brood box arrangement is two deeps in our area. Mediums and shallows work well as "honey supers" when the nectar flow is on in spring-fall and they are making stores.

Some terms can be confusing. The brood box and honey supers are literally the same equipment. It's just the first couple boxes are "brood boxes" because that's where eggs are laid and bees hatch. The same exact box and frames put on top of the stack is now a honey super. No eggs laid there (usually), but bees store nectar/honey there.

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[bmbmkr]

www.beesource.com has recipes for feed, (You will also need need pollen patties over the winter. Sugar gives them energy, pollen is their protein source.) plans for wood ware and lots of other information. Find your local bee club or association, a lot of them do a bee school in the early spring- one night a week for a few weeks or a couple of weekends. It was an emergency opportunity that you found a colony, but try to never ever reuse other peoples bee ware, what killed his could kill yours, and spread to others. Bees suffer from parasites, bacteria and viruses that spread by eggs and spores that last for decades. Good luck with them. We spent 9 hours in our bees yesterday, it's as addicting as sugaring!

[mudr]

Fyi- I've been feeding 1:1 for my new hives this year. I understand folks switch to 2:1 (heavy sugar) in fall for storage.

For my 1:1, I used 1.1 lbs of sugar and 1.1 lbs of water, which when combined fills a quart jar nicely.

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[barnbc76]

I realized the boxes could have harbored deseases and such but since there was no way i could justify another $350 hobby I thought I had nothing to loose, It has been a short time but I can tell I will enjoy it as much as sugaring...

I put the added the deep to the medium, and put the Feeder on top. I have pictures but my phone don't cooperate. I have started learning terms but my beekeeping is on hold for the week while me and our gang work on our cabin driveway in the southernteer this week.

[barnbc76]

Well a week later after working on our driveway road, which included cutting down about a 100 trees with at least 20 or so mature hard maples.

I checked on my bees when I got back, I could not tell if there were eggs and I didnt see the queen. There was new comb although they didnt seem to be making it on the foundation. Still only 3 frames worth of bees, the frames with lots of bees and comb was significatly heavier. I tried videotaping it but none of the video or pictures came out, since I was counting on this I did not look closely visually. The next day I tried again with a better video camera and had success at spotting the queen. Still cant tell if there were eggs but Im sure I just cant see them. I moved the bee box into my apple orchard which I think will be a good spot for them now. The bees don't seem to bother with the feeder on top so I put it right in front of the entrance and now some bees come although there is a 3:1 wasp to bee ratio visiting it.

Will the new eggs that hatch be winter bees or still the normal summer foraging type? The weather here has been the worst in memory as far as summers go, we usually enjoy an indian summer in september but I think this year it will likely be an early autumn.

[psparr]

I wouldn't put the feeder outside the hive. It will induce robbing. A small hive that you have they probably won't make it.

The bees know what to do, but they don't have much time to build up. It'll be a crap shoot if they make it or not.

[barnbc76]

I put the feeder inside the hive yesterday, now the bees are taking it nicely and the other hornets dont.

[barnbc76]

I found someone locally who is going to let me look at his hives, though he and his 13yr old son are admittedly still learning this being their second yr. Yet they managed to overwinter their 2 hives and now through swarming have 4.

I decided the likelyhood of my hive getting big enough to fit an 10 frame deep hive box is not going to happen so ive built a 5 frame nuc box.I will build a second and hopefuly they can fill them out.166861668716688

[bmbmkr]

Looks like they have a bit of honey capped! It takes 3 week for an egg to go from egg, to larva, to bee. The queen SHOULD slow down before winter. 1:1 Sugar syrup induces her to lay. You can switch to 2:1 when the local flowers dry up. They will store it, and only have to evaporate a small amount of water out to stabilize it...sound familiar?

Here's a good article from Maine- we have used these recipes before with good success.

http://mainebeekeepers.org/information-for-beekeepers/recipies-formulations/sugar-candy-and-syrup-recipes/

[Sugarmaker]

Welcome to the world of bees! Chances of your bees making it through the winter is about 30%. But you have given them a chance and they just might suprise you.
Good luck!
My daughter just took off 125 lb of honey from her three hives today.
My one hive was from two swarms this fall. There chances are slim but they had time to gather some goldenrod, and I fed them too.
Regards,
Chris

[barnbc76]

So my bees seem to be doing very well, I met with the guy and his son who live near by and got to see what a real hive looks like. We extracted some honey from one hive, it certainly is fun and a lot of work. I received 2 frames of honey in return for building them a bunch of nuc boxes so now my bees have about 3-4 frames of honey and last I checked a combined total of about 1 frame of brood, the bees cover 4 frames now. They are in 2 five frame nuc boxes stacked with only 4 frames in each, I am still feeding them a little here and there since our weather is so unpredictable. I have 1" foam board i will use to insulate and get it ready for winter.

My dad who helped me on all my maple equipment is going to have a bit of free time on his hands for a few weeks recovering from surgery and is going to help me build a bunch of bee boxes.

[Sugarmaker]

Nice work saving the swarm and they sound like they are doing well for you. Thanks for the update.
Regards,
Chris

[barnbc76]

After a long winter unfortunately my bees did not survive. I either killed them with my inexperience which I think is likely or else mites. At any rate I was disappointed but not surprised. I have ordered a nuc of bees locally that I will be getting in may. I am in the process of building my hives and frames, only a few things to wrap up. Working around making maple syrup and OT at work but I have to get things done soon as my wife is expecting or 3rd child in mid April. I managed to finish building the 4 nucs I promised my friend, next is grafting and planting Apple trees.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Bee keeping is a misnomer. We hope to keep them happy until they skip town for parts unknown.

[mudr]

After a long winter unfortunately my bees did not survive. I either killed them with my inexperience which I think is likely or else mites. At any rate I was disappointed but not surprised. I have ordered a nuc of bees locally that I will be getting in may. I am in the process of building my hives and frames, only a few things to wrap up. Working around making maple syrup and OT at work but I have to get things done soon as my wife is expecting or 3rd child in mid April. I managed to finish building the 4 nucs I promised my friend, next is grafting and planting Apple trees.Where you getting your nucs? I see you are from newstead, are you getting them from south wales? I have two replacement nucs on order from him too.

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[barnbc76]

I am getting them from bee country in darien

[mudr]

Gotcha. I entered in their nuc give away by sharing their Facebook post.

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[barnbc76]

Yeah I did too, what kind of bees did you have last year? The ones I'm getting are just called survivor stock, i assume that means whatever they originally started with has crossbred so many times through surviving winters must be a good thing. I wanted Carnolians but i guess this will do. I see you on facebook wny group, I'm Brian B on facebook.

[bowtie]

I am going get into beekeeping this year, hopefully 2-3 hives. Just like the thought of it plus it will help with pollination in my garden and orchard. I actually live only a couple of miles from a beekeeper,hoping to gain a lot of knowledge from him.

[barnbc76]

Can i use my cone prefilters for honey? Or would it be too fine of a filter.?

[SeanD]

Can i use my cone prefilters for honey? Or would it be too fine of a filter.?

Way too fine. A kitchen sieve will do the job. Everyone has their preferences on filtering. I prefer the coarse which is 600 micron. Honey gets through it the fastest and it keeps the wax and bee parts out.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I use paint strainers from Home Depot they are 2 for about $5.00 not the $20.00 Wash them well. I also get a foodgrade bucket and get an extra lid and I cut most of the cover away and use it to snap over the filter it will hold it in place. You will have nice clean and clear honey. Fill it up to the top and let it set over night and its will drain out of the wax you can shred it with forks to break up the comb. If it just honey from the spinner it will go thru fast.

[barnbc76]

Sounds good thanks

[barnbc76]

I picked up my nuc today, hopefully I do better with hive.