land appraisal

[markcasper]

My parents had the farm appraised and....the appraised value came in @$3600 an acre. Woods, sugarbush, corn field, did not matter, the appraiser valued it all the same at $3600. This is straight land, no nothing else. The appraiser commented that tillable land has come down slightly recently, but that woodland value is being held up by hunters and recreationalists.

So my comment is how can someone pay $3600 per acre for sugarbush and lease it out for $1 a tap, or even $2 a tap and make this work? At the same time, how can you make this pencil and make it work at sub $2/ lb. syrup?

My last comment on real estate listings in New England versus Wisconsin is that you guys in the east are getting a bargain in buying land.

[n8hutch]

How big is your family farm? 3600 per acre is cheap or expensive depending on quantity, you can't buy a 1 acre house lot on good groutdoor for less than 50k where I live. But you can buy a 100 acres of cut over woodland for as little as 125k at times. But generally anything with any wood at all on it even just pulp wood would bring 2k to 2500 per acre. It seems like 20 acres is the threshold where land value seems to go down. Anything smaller and your looking at 5 to 50k per acre

[markcasper]

How big is your family farm? 3600 per acre is cheap or expensive depending on quantity, you can't buy a 1 acre house lot on good groutdoor for less than 50k where I live. But you can buy a 100 acres of cut over woodland for as little as 125k at times. But generally anything with any wood at all on it even just pulp wood would bring 2k to 2500 per acre. It seems like 20 acres is the threshold where land value seems to go down. Anything smaller and your looking at 5 to 50k per acre

I am sorry, I should have clarified. 450 acre dairy farm (quit milking last November) The buildings were given very little value in comparison. So, this is yes, for more than 20 acres. Actually, 240 acres were appraised at $3600, while the balance was appraised at $3800 (little better soil). All the land has easy township blacktop road access on 1 or 2 sides. So no, not looking to break it up for house lots with an illusionary 15,000 per acre price tag.

[markcasper]

But generally anything with any wood at all on it even just pulp wood would bring 2k to 2500 per acre. Still alot less than $3600! Wood on the land here means nothing the appraiser said. We are in a very bad spot for wood sales. Excellent quality lumber on our soils, but too far away from the mills to get a decent price. Our area is prime for loggers to screw the landowner using this excuse.

[maple flats]

I've heard where one appraiser gave an appraised value and another appraised it radically different. You may want another appraiser.
It might be time for you to set up a sawmill business to compliment your syrup business.

[BAP]

If the appraiser has no experience in farmland and woodlands, then I would find a new appraiser. A good appraisal will break out the different land types and uses and assign different values.

[markcasper]

If the appraiser has no experience in farmland and woodlands, then I would find a new appraiser. A good appraisal will break out the different land types and uses and assign different values.
The hired appraiser specializes in farms only! She used 6 different recent farm and woodland property sales within two of the same townships in which our farm land is located. According to the appraiser, and as mentioned before, wooded land value in this area is driven higher soley because of hunting and recreation, not the value of the timber. In other words, we could clear cut the woods and it would still be appraised at $3600 per acre.

Now you say that a good appraisal "will break out different land types and uses and assign different values." I'm thinking that to mean if you would cut it up and sell lots/parcels, then its value would no doubt be higher?

[Loch Muller]

If the wood is really worth nothing to the appraiser and you are selling I'd hire a forester to find out what the wood is really worth. That way you could clear cut the woods to make some money with out harming the value of your land at all, assuming the appraiser is actually right.

[maple flats]

I have a question. This is your parents land, right? Is the appraisal to establish a value for you to buy it? Is it being sold off or is this just to help decide a course of action? If siblings are being given the farm or parts of the farm, is everybody on the same page? I've seen families torn apart when one gets what others perceive as favoritism. When my grandmother passed, my father inherited the whole farm and of 7 remaining siblings 4 fought it and got bitter feelings. What they didn't see was that while his parents were alive, every time his parents had to take out a mortgage, my dad made all of the payments, even though he had a home and mortgage of his own. He in reality bought the farm 3 times, but the others thought they should get an equal share. The will was written so each of the others were to get a set/equal dollar amount and dad got the farm. For him to pay that amount, he had to again mortgage the farm and then pay it off a 4th time.
More recently, when my dad died, the property went to mom, when mom died us 3 kids got what little was left. The way that was done is that the house was put in our 3 names back in 1980, but they had life use, dad died in 2003 and mom in 2015. Then all 3 were equal and all went well. Their biggest request was that the house (which dad had built) remain in the family. We recently completed that request by selling the home to my niece and her husband.
If something like this is the reason for the appraisal, unless you are the sole child, try to smooth any friction.
Good luck!

[markcasper]

If the wood is really worth nothing to the appraiser and you are selling I'd hire a forester to find out what the wood is really worth. That way you could clear cut the woods to make some money with out harming the value of your land at all, assuming the appraiser is actually right. Its not that the wood does not have any value....its that what value it does have would be basically gone when the forester gets his cut, and the logger gets his. (And the appraiser knows this). This woods is in the managed forest plan until 2024. In 2011 there was a harvest completed after being up for bids since 2008. (no bidders for 3 years.) Its about 50 acres wooded BTW. northern hardwoods.

When the sale was over......between the professional forester charges, the DNR getting their cut, and the reduced price because of the loggers share, the folks profited roughly $1,000, and that was even after I making the logger cut more out than what was marked.

The appraisal was done because of current estate plans. And that is another volcanic eruption taking place currently. Some of the land will be gifted in return for a lifetime of sweat equity on behalf of my brother and I (we will assume the remaining mortgage BTW), and some is destined to be purchased in the future.

[n8hutch]

Just out of curiosity how does your town value the land per acre?

[markcasper]

my house and 2 acres, the land is appraised at 11,000 for the 2 acres and is within the boundary of the property appraised. i believe this is correct, but i'll double check.

[jmayerl]

Mark,

You say it is enrolled in MFL, that means the taxes are only $.79/acre if open or $1.87 if closed. If you weren't enrolled in that government program then you could sell the lumber for a higher price, or do what everyone else around here does with there wood......if it's not a saw log it goes on a truck for firewood and sell for $1200-1300 a load.

[Loch Muller]

Wow. I didn't realize that wood markets were that bad in Wisconsin, that is unfortunate. People do a lot better than that in my area even cutting mediocre quality wood on a 50 acre piece. At least it helps save on taxes. Good luck with the family farm.

[markcasper]

Wow. I didn't realize that wood markets were that bad in Wisconsin, that is unfortunate. People do a lot better than that in my area even cutting mediocre quality wood on a 50 acre piece. At least it helps save on taxes. Good luck with the family farm.

Keep in mind....we sold at the absolute bottom back in the 2008 - 2011 range. That was when the economy crashed, sub-prime if some remember. Really nothing more than unfortunate timing. The MFL has it pluses and minuses and that being one of them, if its scheduled to be cut, then you have to no matter what the price. But you can't if noone wants it at any price. The taxes have never been that low,
I do remember them being .89 per acre when it was put in back in 2000, they are around $2.00 per acre now I think. And the DNR takes 5% of the total timber sale when its cut. If you have good veneer and a sizable amount, then you can get a fair price in Wisconsin. But you guys out east certainly have the better prices for pulp. We only got $10 per cord for hardwood pulp and $15 for aspen in 2011. Needless to say, I will not re-enroll when it comes out of the program.

[Sugarbush Ridge]

Just had an appraisal of my mom's farm for trust,, estate, To be divided 4 ways. The best bottom land,, best crop land was 5,200 / ac and hill ground at 6,350/ Woodland,,,3,175 This was with breakdown of soil types for agricultural use and slope also figured in. 280 acres,,, the whole appraisal book is 3/4" thick. So uses and closest towns making things a little higher and I even told him not to use subdivision values. I may be able to get 40 acres ??? of woods with some maple and saw timber