Cost of Vacuum line

[gearpump]

I need to go 1500 feet from my atlas GV100pump to a mechanical releaser with 800 taps. I could use 2" black pipe for a cost of $1,800. 1 1/2 pipe is $1,125. Now if I went with 1" pipe its $375 for 1500'. So I could use 2 runs of 1" pipe for $750, or even 3 runs of 1" for $1,125. These prices are the current Bascom prices. I don't want to skimp on performance, but cost is a factor. Also the 1" pipe comes in 1000' rolls where the 2" comes in 300'rolls. What is my best option?

[Robert K]

Research
I have been reading Steve Child's binder on tubing and vacuum systems lately. There are definite issues when running long lines as far as how much cfm can be drawn through. I will let others comment on this, but from how I see a larger pump like yours is a waste of money unless the line is sized appropriately. I think the 2" line will have the best performance at that distance. I know the expense is more, but the charts show that you will transfer more vacuum with the bigger pipe.

[maple flats]

Consider 2" PVC in 20' lengths, bell end. It would take a few more feet because you would want a expansion/contraction design every 250' or so. This is done by using an elbow, then a length of pipe, then another elbow then either continue on or side step again to original path. This allows for expansion/contraction. You could buy 2" PVC for a little less than $1800 and get good vacuum transfer. It's no good to have a big pump and then choke it on pipe size. Get a copy of Steve Childs maple Tubing Notebook, it will give you a whole new perspective on vacuum performance. A great resource.
Even though you get the same cross sectional area in 4 pipes @ 1", you get way less air flow thru 4 @ 1" than 1 @ 2", it's a matter of line friction.

[n8hutch]

I need to go 1500 feet from my atlas GV100pump to a mechanical releaser with 800 taps. I could use 2" black pipe for a cost of $1,800. 1 1/2 pipe is $1,125. Now if I went with 1" pipe its $375 for 1500'. So I could use 2 runs of 1" pipe for $750, or even 3 runs of 1" for $1,125. These prices are the current Bascom prices. I don't want to skimp on performance, but cost is a factor. Also the 1" pipe comes in 1000' rolls where the 2" comes in 300'rolls. What is my best option? I would shop around a little did you try FW Webb, I was thinking MES was Carring pipe now no? I think you could do better on 1500' , good luck sounds like a good project. 2" pipe on a roll is some kinda stiff and a little hard to work with in My opinion. Just another thought.

[Moser's Maple]

Even with a 2" line you would be cutting your pump capacity in half. At that distance you'll have roughly 34 cfm available for your system. At 800 taps that is more than enough available CFms to the system. You may also want to consider a booster( reservoir tank) before the releaser if you want more available cfm for the releaser. You can run multiple lines to the booster before the releaser, but with every additional fitting you are creating a possible leak spot.
If it was my woods I would also place the moisture trap right behind the releaser to be sure if the releaser failed I wouldn't suck sap down the entire dry line.
Another alternative pipe is sch 40 pvc conduit. This also has the bell style fitting. It's normally much less than standard pvc pipe. You will need to add expansion areas like flats described in earlier posts. You'll also want to make adjustments for the elbows because every elbow you add is like adding an additional 20' to your line.

[gearpump]

Wow that's a lot to consider. Yes there is a moisture trap at the releaser, and there will be a backup one at the pump. I guess I'm leaning towards the 2" pipe. I am hesitant to use PVC pipe because of UV issues and the pvc getting brittle. I figured right now would be a good time to do this so I can pull the pipe out on a hot day. Still not looking forward to wrestling that size pipe down the hill!

[BAP]

As N8Hutch said, check out FW Webb for prices and see if they have it in bigger rolls that will reduce your joints. Also check out any other plumbing supply places. Also, as others have said, 2" is down right miserable to work with and you will need help. Going with a couple of smaller lines like 1-1/4".

[jason grossman]

This may not apply to you, but in the past few years I have built many small opertions that we have been running electric to the woods. Using small vac pumps and electric releasers to pump sap out. I have done five in the last year 400 to 1200 taps and running the electric wire has always come out cheaper than building a proper vac transfer line. The longest one ran 1360 ft. As long as you have a power source. All run on 30 amps or less. I ran 2in several times and it is a pain to deal with. My 2cts.

[spud]

This may not apply to you, but in the past few years I have built many small opertions that we have been running electric to the woods. Using small vac pumps and electric releasers to pump sap out. I have done five in the last year 400 to 1200 taps and running the electric wire has always come out cheaper than building a proper vac transfer line. The longest one ran 1360 ft. As long as you have a power source. All run on 30 amps or less. I ran 2in several times and it is a pain to deal with. My 2cts.

What size wire did you run? About how much did it cost to buy 1360 feet? Thanks

Spud

[gearpump]

I would like to know what size wire also. Along with this vac line I have to run wire for a deep well pump. Ran this system on a generator and smaller Dairy vacuum pump in the past and had to carry 300 gallons of gas on 5 gal jugs down the hill during the season. Pulling and wrestling 2" pipe will be much more pleasant.

[jason grossman]

We used direct bury triplex. 2,2,4. We are aslo required to ground back to the source just not a ground rod at the load end, so that was 6 wire. So 4 wires total. We were supposed to step a size down at 1000ft according to the electrician, but we didnt and it worked fine. Cost was 1.18 a foot. Not real cheap but you never have to worry about leaks and I installed that way faster and cheaper than a 2 inch line. Used a small 1.5 to 2 hp vac pumps and electric releasers with deep well submersibles. We tested them and the start load was only 19 amps. Shortest pump is 300ft longest is 2000ft with a 70ft rise in the middle. I am doing more and more of these if the power is available. These are also on monitoring systems and remote starts.

[jason grossman]

The pumps were travini em28s similar to airtech or atlas small but mighty. 19cfm 28in vac.

[unc23win]

I am going to be using Jason's method which is to run the wire and use a separate pump and releaser then pump the sap to my sugarhouse. I have seen the direct bury for $1 a foot and even saw one place online with free shipping. I have 2 possibly 3 expansions I am going to do this way rather than go through all the hassle of running more lines or installing lifts.