Fine sediment in bottom of syrup bottle

[mspina14]

I updated this year from a cone filter to a flat filter system in a water jacketed filter tank.

I'm generally please with the results of the flat filter system. I use 2 prefilters on top of an orlon main filter.

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I only use glass to bottle my syrup. I've notice in some recent bottles I've opened a very thin layer of fine white sediment on the bottom of the bottle:

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Anybody have any idea what caused the sediment?

thanks

Mark

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Looks like sugarsand to me

[buckeye gold]

yup I agree on sugar sand. A little settling out on the bottom I don't worry about, but that is more than a little to me. I also bottle exclusively in glass and I have refiltered more than once. It sucks but that is the perils of bottling in glass...if you bottle in plastic no one knows until the customer empties it. I prefer they see what they are buying even if it cost me some syrup. I have had some late season syrup be real hard to filter without some cloudiness, when I see this start I filter through final orlon filters at 217 and then finish and filter again through two pre filters and another clean final orlon. If the sand still shows up I mix in a little filter aid in the last filtering.

[mspina14]

yup I agree on sugar sand. A little settling out on the bottom I don't worry about, but that is more than a little to me. I also bottle exclusively in glass and I have refiltered more than once. It sucks but that is the perils of bottling in glass...if you bottle in plastic no one knows until the customer empties it. I prefer they see what they are buying even if it cost me some syrup. I have had some late season syrup be real hard to filter without some cloudiness, when I see this start I filter through final orlon filters at 217 and then finish and filter again through two pre filters and another clean final orlon. If the sand still shows up I mix in a little filter aid in the last filtering.

Thanks.

Can you use filter aid (DE) with cloth filters?

I always thought DE was only used with filter presses.

I'm like you. I like to see the syrup in the glass bottle. Something about the golden/amber color that makes it appealing. If you're going to go through all that trouble to collect sap, boil it down for hours and filter it, might as well enjoy looking at the finished product!

Mark

[Sugarbush Ridge]

I've had good luck using flat filters. But it seems that late season and or very dark syrup seems to over load flat s and just have to reheated and filtered again.

One thing,,,,, Ray Goodrich,, Cabot MA says to not bottle above 189 degs. As 190 degs and above that,, more sugar sand will form in bottle. That I believe I have noticed when my LP heated, water pan goes above 190 and because turning down LP doesn't right away stop raising temperature of syrup in canner.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Thanks.

Can you use filter aid (DE) with cloth filters?

I always thought DE was only used with filter presses.

I'm like you. I like to see the syrup in the glass bottle. Something about the golden/amber color that makes it appealing. If you're going to go through all that trouble to collect sap, boil it down for hours and filter it, might as well enjoy looking at the finished product!

Mark

Yes you can use DE with gravity filtering. I found it was noticeably better. The DE forms a cake on the surface of the filter that will help catch more sugarsand. It's still not as good as a press but it should help a lot.

[buckeye gold]

Yup you can use filter aid (DE) with flat filters, but use less than with a press. I have a small measure I use but I don't remember the amount, I;m guessing maybe an eighth to fourth cup per gallon. I mix it in while the syrup is boiling after it is finished, it is kind of a dance, but I have learned to do it. It will be slower but keep it hot and be patient. I agree on the temps, i set my probe at 185 to bottle.

[Quebecguy]

Hi Mark,
What are you using to check the sugar content of your syrup? If the syrup is too "thin" sometimes the nitre or sugar sand is not fully precipitated out of the syrup and passes with the syrup through the filter.
Regards, Chris

[mspina14]

Hi Mark,
What are you using to check the sugar content of your syrup? If the syrup is too "thin" sometimes the nitre or sugar sand is not fully precipitated out of the syrup and passes with the syrup through the filter.
Regards, Chris

Thanks Chris.

I use a refractometer like the one shown in the photo below:

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We finish the syrup to 67 Brix.

I had a little trouble getting used to using this instrument (used it for the first time this passed season) and some of the syrup did come out too thin. So that might have been some of the problem.

But even in bottle where the syrup is thick, and I'm sure it is at 67 Brix, I still notice the very thin layer of white grit on the bottom of the glass bottles.


Mark

[whity]

I would try using 4 pre filters. When you wash them make sure you use hot water and rinse with cold water. Don't wring them out. Also make sure they are moist and warm before filtering. We will start with 7 pre filter and a finish filter in our flat filter canner. Pull filters as they plug up. Finish the night with still 4 pre filters

[SeanD]

I would try using 4 pre filters. When you wash them make sure you use hot water and rinse with cold water. Don't wring them out. Also make sure they are moist and warm before filtering. We will start with 7 pre filter and a finish filter in our flat filter canner. Pull filters as they plug up. Finish the night with still 4 pre filters

I hadn't heard about wash hot then rinse cold before. I just use hot water all the way through. What does the cold water do?

[whity]

I hadn't heard about wash hot then rinse cold before. I just use hot water all the way through. What does the cold water do?

We use cold water rinse to get rid of sediment that still sticks to the filter. They look clean till you hit them with the cold water and see a fine brown residue just float away. With the spray nozzle of course.

[buckeye gold]

The cold rinse is new to me as well, but I'll certainly give it a try. This old dog will still try to learn new tricks. Thanks for the tip

[mspina14]

I would try using 4 pre filters. When you wash them make sure you use hot water and rinse with cold water. Don't wring them out. Also make sure they are moist and warm before filtering. We will start with 7 pre filter and a finish filter in our flat filter canner. Pull filters as they plug up. Finish the night with still 4 pre filters

Thanks Whity.

I use 2 pre-filters and a finish filter. And it seems to take the syrup forever to drain completely. I can't even imagine how long it would take with 7 pre-filters.

What kind of pre-filters do you use?

thanks

Mark

[n8hutch]

Are your pre filters hot?are your prefilters damp/moist? The syrup should go through the prefilters rather quickly at first, as it starts to slow you need to pull off the top one and continue filtering until it slows.I've put up to 10 gallons or more through one flat felt filter and using roughly 7-8 prefilters, even when we used cone filters we could get 3 gallons through them.

[whity]

Thanks Whity.

I use 2 pre-filters and a finish filter. And it seems to take the syrup forever to drain completely. I can't even imagine how long it would take with 7 pre-filters.

What kind of pre-filters do you use?

thanks

Mark

We use the flat prefilters you get at Bascoms. They come in various sizes. Just cut them to fit so they wrap up and over the sides of your filter tray. Not just to lay on the bottom. They need to go up the sides and over the side of the tray.

[whity]

Are your pre filters hot?are your prefilters damp/moist? The syrup should go through the prefilters rather quickly at first, as it starts to slow you need to pull off the top one and continue filtering until it slows.I've put up to 10 gallons or more through one flat felt filter and using roughly 7-8 prefilters, even when we used cone filters we could get 3 gallons through them.

Nate is correct, They need to be wet and hot to filter well. We clean ours daily and hang them over the front pan to stay hot/warm from the steam

[mspina14]

Last season I dipped the pre-filters in the boiling sap in the sap pan before using them in the filter tank. Got them good and wet (and burned my hand on the boiling sap in the process).

Should that work as well as steaming them?

Mark

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Last season I dipped the pre-filters in the boiling sap in the sap pan before using them in the filter tank. Got them good and wet (and burned my hand on the boiling sap in the process).

Should that work as well as steaming them?

Mark

should work fine

[n8hutch]

Only problem I can see with that is you have the potential to contaminate your filters with whatever is floating around in your sap pan, including dust/debris/I get a fair amount of niter in mine. Are you wetting your felt with boiling sap also?

[markct]

I have been making syrup 9 years now and other than an occasional blown paper etc in the filter press never had a sediment problem till this year, seems everything I bottle in glass has sediment and it's really frustrating. I always heat the syrup then run it thru the filter press and then into the bottler and only heat it a little with burner very low to maintain temp as needed but I'm getting very fine sediment and really irritating me!

[SeanD]

I have been making syrup 9 years now and other than an occasional blown paper etc in the filter press never had a sediment problem till this year, seems everything I bottle in glass has sediment and it's really frustrating. I always heat the syrup then run it thru the filter press and then into the bottler and only heat it a little with burner very low to maintain temp as needed but I'm getting very fine sediment and really irritating me!

I had the same problem and it was enough for me to finally make the jump to a steam pan a month ago. The problem is that little patch where the flame hits the pan. The temp probe might read 185, but that spot right above the flame is way above 190 the whole time. I had better results when I stirred the warming syrup the whole time it was heating up. Then when I got to 185, I'd shut off the heat, bottle all my glass then switch to bottling plastic when I had to turn the burner back on. It was labor intensive, but I was able to get better results from a traditional pan.

[mspina14]

Only problem I can see with that is you have the potential to contaminate your filters with whatever is floating around in your sap pan, including dust/debris/I get a fair amount of niter in mine. Are you wetting your felt with boiling sap also?

Good point. I was not wetting the felt filter. Just the pre-filters.

Maybe that was causing my slow filtering problem.

Mark

[n8hutch]

I keep my Felts and prefilters boiling in pot of water on the back of my arch I do not remove them from the water until I am ready to filter. I just give them a good hard shake before I put them in the filter tray.

Think of a Dry Felt like a wool coat when it first starts to rain it just beads off and it takes a long time to soak in. It's the same idea with a Dry Felt and syrup

[markct]

I had the same problem and it was enough for me to finally make the jump to a steam pan a month ago. The problem is that little patch where the flame hits the pan. The temp probe might read 185, but that spot right above the flame is way above 190 the whole time. I had better results when I stirred the warming syrup the whole time it was heating up. Then when I got to 185, I'd shut off the heat, bottle all my glass then switch to bottling plastic when I had to turn the burner back on. It was labor intensive, but I was able to get better results from a traditional pan. Well today I finally bought a water jacket canner that holds 20 gallons so hopefully this will be the solution. As for those with water jacket bottlers do any of you reheat without refiltering? I hate losing a half gallon in the filter press every time but absolutely had to with the niter formed in the finishing pan of course

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

No need to refilter if you keep the temperature under 190 which is where niter can start to form again. Bottle at 180 +/- 5 degrees.

[markct]

Maybe that's been my problem too, I shoot for 190 and even with a steam tray for indirect heat occasionally drifts over 190

[maineboiler]

Water jacketed bottler is the way to go. We’ll worth the investment. I use mine every tim I bottle but it got warped
Anyone have any ideas how to unwrap it ?

[markct]

So what is safe bottling temp, many books say 180, yet seminars I been to often said to remember it needs to be 180 when the cap goes on and recommended a bottling temp of 190 which I always strived for and wondering now if that's what gives me so much trouble, can I really have my syrup at 180 and be ok?

[maple flats]

I set my WJ bottler to run at 185-187. There seems to be no issue that way.
Back before I had my filter press, I used an orlon filter topped with 5 or 6 pre-filters. As the flow got slow, I carefully removed the top pre-filter and then I hung it from above to drip into the next one. As I finished I usually had 2 or 3 pre-filters left, but it would not be an issue unless you get down to no pre-filters.
Some producers use DE with flat or cone filter set-ups. They say it helps. The science of how it works is that the DE can not pass thru the orlon filter, so it forms a filter cake, it is that filter cake that actually does the filtering. DE is one of the best filters you can get. When the filter cake forms, it traps the sugar sand throughout the cake, not just on the surface like it does without the DE. Then the DE is the filter.

[scottdevine]

Yes you can use DE with gravity filtering. I found it was noticeably better. The DE forms a cake on the surface of the filter that will help catch more sugarsand. It's still not as good as a press but it should help a lot.

Is anyone doing this during the 2018 season? WOuld love to hear more from you if true!