Shack going up this summer and fall

[mudr]

Just made a down payment on the materials for a 16x24 shack. It's a sizable chunk of change for a hobby, but we plan to use it all 4 seasons with canning veggies, parties, etc. Basic specs- 10 ft walls, board and batten, triple 2x6 laminated posts, 6/12 pitch trusses, 3x8 cupola (running a 2x6 right now), 4 windows, board/batten homemade wooden door, and a black metal roof with the bubble wrap underlayment stuff.

I'm pretty excited. I am not a carpenter by trade, but I grew up on a farm and can swing a hammer and hit the nail 3 out of 4 times. I've got a guy to do the gravel for me, and I will have my father and brother help mainly with the posts, headers, and trusses. Beyond that it is pretty straight forward. My dad has built a handful of pole barns during his life as a farmer, and my brother is a journeyman in the carpenters union. He's pretty **** good.

Hopefully this goes well. If it turns out half as good looking as the shack wnybassman built, I will be happy. Pictures to come later in the summer.

[Bricklayer]

I'm doing the same this year also. 16x18 is what I'm building. Was planning on starting sooner but it's been so wet I haven't been able to even get my truck back there. Starting to dry out now though. Pole barns are super easy to build. I built a 18x28 pole barn as a shop 2 years ago. Built it all by myself. No help at all. So if you have help it will go up pretty fast. I went with a gravel floor also and regret it every day. I said I would pour a slab at a later time. But once the garage is full of junk and tools and workbenches it would be a hell of a job taking it all out. And keep it all covered while you prep and pour the slab. So my plan with my sugar house is to pour a slab in the centre for the evaporator to sit on. Maybe 3' wide x 8' long. Then have a well packed gravel floor around it. At least if I want to add a slab later I don't have to get the evaporator out or suspend it off the floor to pour a slab. And I'm putting the 1/4" chicken wire/hardware cloth all around the outside and burying it 2' out around the building to keep critters out. I didn't do this on my garage and get all kinds of surprise visitors when I open the door sometimes. I did this on my pole barn style chicken coop and have had raccoons trying to dig it up and get under for 5 years now with no intruders.

[mudr]

Yeah I've helped out on pole barns before. I could do it myself and it would be fine. But if I've got the experienced knowledge to help with that I'd be stupid to not listen to them.

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[Bricklayer]

Yes help is awesome.

[VTnewguy]

We built our Sugar house last summer. It was a great experience. My first advice would be to go with a slab with drains.

[wnybassman]

lol Thanks!! Looking forward to seeing your progress. I don't regret for a second building a shack!

[mudr]

Question for you guys-how tall do I make the cuploa? I will be framing it up with 2x6s after I get the trusses on. Since the trusses are 4 ft on center and I'm making it 8 ft long, I will have three 2x6 uprights for each side plus the center. If i make the 2x6 stick up initially 24 inches, I figure I will have about an +/-18 inch door. Is 2 ft total height too much? Not enough? Again, the shack is going to be 16x24 with 10 ft walls.

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[Marko]

I built a sugar shack 2 years ago. One of the best events I have ever done. In my opinion the 3 most important things you should do:
Concrete floor, Concrete floor and of course concrete floor.
It was a lot of extra work but it was worth it!!

48 taps and a yooper

[VTnewguy]

Question for you guys-how tall do I make the cuploa? I will be framing it up with 2x6s after I get the trusses on. Since the trusses are 4 ft on center and I'm making it 8 ft long, I will have three 2x6 uprights for each side plus the center. If i make the 2x6 stick up initially 24 inches, I figure I will have about an +/-18 inch door. Is 2 ft total height too much? Not enough? Again, the shack is going to be 16x24 with 10 ft walls.

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I think we went with 36" on our cupola height for our 16*20 sugar house. I initially thought it might have been too tall but it really comes down to what is pleasing to your eye as well as being functional.

[sap retreiver]

I made mine 2*2*8. The steam has no problem but I don't fit in it very well. Working inside of it for finishing and hanging cables was a little tight

[mudr]

Thanks guys. I've seen a suggestion for 36 and one for 24 inches. I think I will shoot for 2.5 ft (30 inches from roof peak to cupola peak). Might be a nice balance.

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[mudr]

It's starting to get real. 3/4 of the materials got delivered today, everything but the siding and metal roof. My wife and I are pretty pumped. My neighbor will be out to take care of the site work and gravel soon. My brother wants to dig the holes for the posts, he has a new compact tractor with a backhoe. He wants to play. Hope to start sticking poles in the ground in a week or two.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170803/bc1a964a37160325b08e173756065328.jpg

[mspina14]

nice looking kit.

Where did you buy it from?

Mark

[mudr]

Amish lumber yard. Called Lakeshore Metal in Medina NY. Good prices, quality, and people. Told them my sizes and they designed and put the package together. Just wish they had better communication. The office guy called to let me know it was on its way after the delivery guy was in my driveway. Haha.

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[mspina14]

Thanks.

Isn't so much nicer to deal with good people?

Also, I've never seen that design for a truss before.

I like it a lot.

Did you design it or the lumber company?

Mark

[mudr]

They were good folks. Decent communication and pleasant over the phone and email (remember, they are amish, ha).

The trusses were designed and built by cowenengo (spelling?) truss company. Those top two are the end/gable trusses. That extra horizontal web about a foot or two down from the peak is a nailer for the siding, it is 2 feet up from the bottom 2x4.

The other trusses don't have that horizontal nailer.

[maple flats]

I'm doing the same this year also. 16x18 is what I'm building. Was planning on starting sooner but it's been so wet I haven't been able to even get my truck back there. Starting to dry out now though. Pole barns are super easy to build. I built a 18x28 pole barn as a shop 2 years ago. Built it all by myself. No help at all. So if you have help it will go up pretty fast. I went with a gravel floor also and regret it every day. I said I would pour a slab at a later time. But once the garage is full of junk and tools and workbenches it would be a hell of a job taking it all out. And keep it all covered while you prep and pour the slab. So my plan with my sugar house is to pour a slab in the centre for the evaporator to sit on. Maybe 3' wide x 8' long. Then have a well packed gravel floor around it. At least if I want to add a slab later I don't have to get the evaporator out or suspend it off the floor to pour a slab. And I'm putting the 1/4" chicken wire/hardware cloth all around the outside and burying it 2' out around the building to keep critters out. I didn't do this on my garage and get all kinds of surprise visitors when I open the door sometimes. I did this on my pole barn style chicken coop and have had raccoons trying to dig it up and get under for 5 years now with no intruders.
I was the ONE who did the concrete the hard way. I started with a pit 4' deep under the arch location but then ran out of time. So I sawed some hemlock and made a temporary wooden deck over an area of 12' x 16' in my 16x24 shell of a sugarhouse. I went under the deck in the pit, placed some large chunks of broken sidewalk for support and put in 3 jack posts to add support for the arch. That season I laid a layer of cement blocks for under the fire plus a hearth of ' in front, covered it with 16 gal galvanized and ran that way, for a year. After the season, I made a hoist system in the trusses out of 1" pipe, with 3 steel cables down under the evaporator and back up the other side, connected to another pipe. Each pipe had a T on one end and 3' "pipe handles" to turn the pipes to raise the evaporator. Once up high enough to work under it, I also used 2x6's down off the trusses and a cross brace in 3 spots as a safety to support the arch. I lowered it until about half the weight was on the lumber and half on the cables. The I removed the wooden floor, poured a footer for under the firebox end and a smaller one for under the rear legs. I designed it to fit the 2x6 I had at that time, and big enough to support a 3x8 which I now have.
Then I laid up concrete blocks around the perimeter of each footer and filled it with crushed stone. Then I poured a single slab over both at 4' x 10'. Then I ran out of $ and low on time, so I built a wooden platform again but this time with the evaporator on solid concrete. That went another season, after which I finally got the floor completed, just in time to remove the 2x6 and put in the currant 3x8.
I did decide in the long process that I never want to built everything, add benches and all before doing the concrete again, it was able to be done but was a real hard way to get it done.

[mudr]

Neighbor came to do site work today. Should finish up early tomorrow morning. The erection should start this weekend!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170807/4e7d1ab3b1a24598413e08160553e4d9.jpg

[wnybassman]

Wow, look at all that level ground you got to work with!! lol

[mudr]

The woods are the same. :/

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[mudr]

Dug holes Friday night and saturday morning. Set posts, notched for headers, put up headers and skirt board, and finished with trusses today. Good day. Good to have helpers whose skill sets far exceed your own.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170813/30c3771b542c9b39279b04ed15f63fb6.jpg

[wnybassman]

Now it gets more and more exciting every day you put into it.

[mudr]

Question for you guys on finishing the hemlock board and batten siding. Do I nail up the battens first and finish everything all at once? Or do I finish the boards up on the wall FIRST, and then finish the battens on saw horses and put them up after?

I feel like I need to get the boards finished first, before the battens are on. If the battens were on and the boards shrunk after I finished, I'd have 1/8th o 1/4 inch wide strips of unfinished board next to the battens. I may be over thinking this...

[Maplewalnut]

Question for you guys on finishing the hemlock board and batten siding. Do I nail up the battens first and finish everything all at once? Or do I finish the boards up on the wall FIRST, and then finish the battens on saw horses and put them up after?

I feel like I need to get the boards finished first, before the battens are on. If the battens were on and the boards shrunk after I finished, I'd have 1/8th o 1/4 inch wide strips of unfinished board next to the battens. I may be over thinking this...

I put the boards up and then went back to finish with battens. You will get shrinkage unless you are kiln dried. I went with 12 inch boards and 3 inch battens. I nailed my battens in the middle to allow boards to shrink and swell with the seasons

[mudr]

I put the boards up and then went back to finish with battens. You will get shrinkage unless you are kiln dried. I went with 12 inch boards and 3 inch battens. I nailed my battens in the middle to allow boards to shrink and swell with the seasons
So one vote for stain/finish boards first. Thank you.

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[wnybassman]

I put up everything first, then stained. Don't have any shrink areas without stain for some reason.

[mudr]

Making progress. Slowly but surely.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170910/1c2106d63a4f458a5e60e91919bf37fe.jpg

[wnybassman]

Lookin' good!

[phil-t]

Iput up a polebarn last year - Hemlock board and batten. Lumber was cut, stickered and stacked outdoors for 10 months before I used it. We put it up (boards and battens) then I sprayed it. That was about one year ago - no shrinkage and the stain covered well.

[BAP]

Very nice looking. You should have good time boiling in there this spring.

[mudr]

Still slowly, but still surely.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170918/e9ba0ebfed3a308fe55e184a3a44dc9d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170918/42d982eefdde4cd0041a29797447ef31.jpg

[VTnewguy]

Looks awesome. You will enjoy boiling in the new building.

[mudr]

Not there yet, but looking into stack components. Oye. Not cheap. Tell me if I'm at least barking up the right tree. Looking at:

-Pitched ceiling support kit, as this is a cathedral-esque install. Just open trusses up to the purlins. https://www.firesidechimneysupply.com/pitched-ceiling-support-kit.html

-Add in a couple 4 ft sections of 8 inch class A pipe to go above the roof.

-Selkirk chimney boot. I really like the idea of this thing. I feel like the rubber will do a better job of sealing off on top of the metal and the caulk will only help.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007W84TKA/ref=asc_df_B007W84TKA5178477/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395009&creativeASIN=B007W84TKA&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167135477708&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14182875529670003142&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005452&hvtargid=pla-314846273744

-Then add in a chimney support brace as it will be sticking up quite a ways.

Thoughts on this? Will it work? I've poked around a couple websites and I'm in the $1,100 range.

Update- I found all of the same items in amazon, total is like $750. Dang. I much prefer to support specialists, but that cost saving is difficult to ignore.

[VTnewguy]

Not there yet, but looking into stack components. Oye. Not cheap. Tell me if I'm at least barking up the right tree. Looking at:

-Pitched ceiling support kit, as this is a cathedral-esque install. Just open trusses up to the purlins. https://www.firesidechimneysupply.com/pitched-ceiling-support-kit.html

-Add in a couple 4 ft sections of 8 inch class A pipe to go above the roof.

-Selkirk chimney boot. I really like the idea of this thing. I feel like the rubber will do a better job of sealing off on top of the metal and the caulk will only help.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007W84TKA/ref=asc_df_B007W84TKA5178477/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395009&creativeASIN=B007W84TKA&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167135477708&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14182875529670003142&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005452&hvtargid=pla-314846273744

-Then add in a chimney support brace as it will be sticking up quite a ways.

Thoughts on this? Will it work? I've poked around a couple websites and I'm in the $1,100 range.

Update- I found all of the same items in amazon, total is like $750. Dang. I much prefer to support specialists, but that cost saving is difficult to ignore.

When we built our sugar house last year we went with a roof jack from CDL that was bent to the pitch we needed. Same with the stack pipe. We didn't go with double wall.

[mudr]

Do you have a metal roof? If so, how did the roof jack seal to the contour of the metal?

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[VTnewguy]

The roof jack is made for the pitch of the roof. We have a 8/12 pitch, and yes we have a metal roof. It goes over the top of the roofing so it doesn't leak.

[mudr]

Concrete went in yesterday. 4 inch pad. Wire and fiber. 2 of the smaller 4 inch floor drains.

My body has never felt this good after doing concrete work. Remember being more sore than this when we did some concrete pads for corn cribs growing up. Right now, it's only my hand that is sore from writing the check for the guy who did the pour. :) on an unrelated note, the concrete looks great!

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[mudr]

Pleased with the finished product.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171023/06a634076acc8ee55f7ee1c29abbbff1.jpg

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[red dorakeen]

Great looking slab for what looks like an awesome shack.

[MISugarDaddy]

Your sugarhouse is coming along nicely. I can understand how happy you are to get the concrete work done. You can be proud of your work, it looks really great. Although winter is coming, you should still have enough time to get the outside work done before the snow really starts flying. Keep up the great work.
Gary

[mudr]

Question for you folks- time to start thinking about electric. I will pay someone else to bring electric in to a breaker box. I have options for aerial or to run an underground line from the shop 125 ft away. Leaning to aerial, as I will have them unhook and use an existing aerial that goes to a barn that is falling apart and will be removed soon (the old milking barn :( ).

Main question is on box, wire, and outlets. Do I need anything special due to humidity and moisture? I can't find waterproof outlets other than the plastic flip top, which I don't know if I want due to aesthetics. Id like to find some moisture proof LED lights too. Is there anything else I should be aware of? Links and or pictures would be appreciated!

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[Sugarmaker]

In our neck of the woods any lights needs to have a cove over it. This is a food safety, and is part of inspections.
You sugarhouse looks good. That's the same size evaporator room I have. Then add ons for wood and kitchen. concrete looks nice.
Thanks for the pictures.
Regards
Chris

[mudr]

Thank you. I'm leaning towards this. Vapor/water tight, fully enclosed, And it is an led. Might get 4.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-4-ft-Bright-Cool-White-Linear-LED-Direct-Wire-Powered-Vapor-and-Water-Tight-Wrap-Flushmount-Ceiling-Light-Fixture-54656141/206195313

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[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Some of the LED flood lamp bulbs, the cover on the bottom is a plastic snap on cover and should pass inspection.

[mudr]

Got my double doors up finally (pic below], just missing one hinge (home despot ran out) and the handles. Also got the last of the roof trim up. I didn't want to walk the 6:12 metal without someone else there and it took time for our schedules to link up. Tough to call 911 with broken limbs. :)

I've got some prices for an electrician to run the line out and put the panel in. Looking at 100 amp. Will be running lights like those linked above (thank you for your comment wva mapler), do you guys run any special outlets or switches? I am familiar with the wet location rated ones, but those outlets with cover are ugly and would be clunky to use in a sugar house. Any other suggestions?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171125/fbce31f16a683ba96dcebe4b09257e3d.jpg

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[minehart gap]

I am familiar with the wet location rated ones, but those outlets with cover are ugly and would be clunky to use in a sugar house. Any other suggestions?

I’m not certain of the code in your area but there are GFCI breakers that will allow you to use regular outlets and have the same protection as a GFCI outlet. The only problem would be that every time that you trip a breaker, you would need to go to the breaker box to reset it instead of just reaching the outlet. Check with the electrician that will be installing your service to make sure that they use a panel box that has GFCI breakers available if you decide to go that route.

Your sugar shack looks awesome.

[mudr]

I’m not certain of the code in your area but there are GFCI breakers that will allow you to use regular outlets and have the same protection as a GFCI outlet. The only problem would be that every time that you trip a breaker, you would need to go to the breaker box to reset it instead of just reaching the outlet. Check with the electrician that will be installing your service to make sure that they use a panel box that has GFCI breakers available if you decide to go that route.

Your sugar shack looks awesome.I like the gcfi idea. I was wondering that, but didn't know if that would get rid of the requirements for special boxes etc. Will talk to my guy

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[maple flats]

My electric all passed an inspection and I have no GFCI in the sugarhouse. Everything is in conduit. If you do go with GFCI the outlets are far less cost than the breakers. When you use the outlets, the GFCI one is 1st in line on each circuit and all the rest in that circuit are then GFCI protected. My in sugarhouse boxes are just like what you likely have in your home, the outside outlets have and must have the "in use" type covers, the boxes can be surface mount or inwall like your home but that cover must be used. In the sugarhouse have all outlets at least 4' off the floor.
Amperage, try to plan 10 yrs+ down the road. How big might you be at 10 years from now and what electric equipment might you have? RO is a big draw but well worth it, a water heater, pumps (including vacuum).
I started with 60A off a generator, then 7 years later I was putting in a 200A service. I failed to see 10 yrs out. I just added a 14 x 28 shed that will house a workshop, but will have a walk in cooler addition and a blacksmith shop addition. I don't even weld (yet) but I'm running a 100A line from the sugarhouse to the shed, in sch. 80 conduit to the sub panel in the shed. While the costs add up, it's not as bad as having to change it later.

[barnbc76]

Looking really good!

[mudr]

Finally got an electrician to call back to my inquiries. He fit me in and installed the underground line just before the snow hit. He came back Tuesday and installed the box, and it passed inspection today. I got the lights worked up just as it started getting dark.

This pic reminds me I need to actually make the cupola door on this side to replace the temporary plywood. May not get to it till next year. The other side is functional. 1.5 by 8 door should handle a 2x6.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171216/315ac360178d5f914c316cced4b508bf.jpg

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[mudr]

Got my outside storage tank set. It'll work for this year, might move it a bit closer to shack and square it up in the summer. Probably paint over the graffiti too. A wee big bigger than I need now for my 150 taps and 2x6, but it was $175 delivered for a 1,000 gal double wall tank. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171223/1f44cbaffcabfb44562bcdb8cd342209.jpg

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[Bucket Head]

I would have 'overlooked' the graffiti issue also for that price...lol.

Nice sugar house. Good luck with it.

[mudr]

Might just keep the graffiti and go with a "shroom" theme for the shack's decor.

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[wnybassman]

Hey, you need to clean out your messages :)

[mudr]

Hey, you need to clean out your messages :)Haha, I got an email when your reply bounced. Sorry!

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