12 Volt Sap Relay - Crazy-Azz Idea?

[wmick]

Hi Folks
This past season I set up a 12V shureflow type pump in a friends remote bush with about 50 taps on it, and I thought it worked absolutely wonderful....
The little pump seemed to have tons of capacity for more volume than 50 taps. and lasted forever on a battery.
This year I want to expand into that very long, flat bush, by maybe another 100-150 taps.
Finding slope is a challenge... and I'm not crazy about the idea of setting up a full fledged gas powered vacuum system to handle a sap-ladder, for only a couple hundred taps...

My crazy idea... put in 2 or 3 little shurflow systems in tandem... Each dumping into the next mainline, via a vented reservoir, that will only dump when sap is high enough to cover the outlet and lift a float valve... (hence - not depleting the vacuum level in the next run, by introducing air.)

Appreciate your thoughts and ideas... (dont be gentle :))

sketch attached

16538

[Sunny Knoll Farm]

I'm switching to vacuum next year with a similar flatland situation. My thought was similar without the reservoir/float. The concept is to operate the pumps in series and lift the sap into head of the next pump segment to generate slope. I think it would be easier to keep the tight system with less parts provided the mainline is sized properly.

I'm curious to see what the experts think of this concept.

[MapleCamp]

I have been thinking of something like this, only non vented. Keeping the pumps in line. I dont have to do much lift just flat spots. I may try it out when the leaves drop with some water at the far end. Its to hot and a jungle out there now. If it works I will post results. Ive been amazed at the vac these little pumps pull. I have solar panels at pump sites 20w and the batteries will go 20-24 hours.

[Wanabe1972]

I run a shurflo type pump that after the last tap pumps up a tree 8 feet and over the roadway to the sugar house like in your picture and it works fine. The problem i see with your design is you need to keep the outlet of the tank covered in sap to maintain vacuum. I see you have float valves built in but on a cold night the sap will freeze up and it will take a long time to thaw in the morning. I have a 2 pipe sap ladder that was placed on the wrong side of a tree in the shade and it takes hours to thaw somtimes. You will have to have a fairly large amount of sap in the relay tanks and on a cold night followed by a marginal temp day the trees may run but the tanks may never thaw.

You didnt say how long the lines for this bush would be. Could you run shorter lines that have slope from the outside of the bush towards a center manifold and then pump up. My main bush is like this (all the sap gets pulled up a ladder but you could do it with a shurflo and pump it up the ladder).

[Super Sapper]

If you can centralize your pump, I would run 3/16 laterals with up to 25 taps each to a manifold at the pump. With 3/16 line slope does not seem to be as big of a factor. You can have your collection tank there or try pumping up to a sloping line to a collection tank.

[wmick]

Thanks for the response folks... You've got my thinking-cap spinning...

Wanabe1972 - Question - You say you have a shureflow at the end of your tap line, pumping up over the road.. My pump is not a real shureflow, (but a Chinese knockoff).. I found that I needed to have a bit of bypass sucking from the reservoir in order to keep the pump wet and the vacuum level high.. If the pump ran dry the vacuum would drop right off.. Does your shureflow not act the same way? Mind you, I only had 50 taps on mine, so the flow wasn't real heavy/steady... Maybe you had enough sap flowing from trees naturally to keep the pump wet??... How many taps are on your line?
.... and I will need to think more about the freezing thing... wasn't a concern last year, with the weather I had... but that can change a lot... Thanks

For the guys that are thinking about the tandem setup without the reservoir... My thoughts are.. that if you are pumping directly into your next section, any volume of air that you introduce through your pump, will negate and lower the vacuum level in your next section.. (just like a bad leak) I could be wrong, but I think if you have 2 identical pumps plumbed in series, and moving identical cfm, you will never have any vacuum between them... That being said... if you are counting on gravity to feed the main line and not artificial vacuum, and only trying to transfer sap, then it should work fine...

I might be off track but my rationalization for the mid-stream reservoirs were two reasons... 1. To provide a source of sap for a bypass (primer) line back to the pump... and 2. To keep separate "vacuum" systems and not pump any air into the next section.

I've attached a sketch of the bush I am dealing with.... This past season, I had about 50 taps running to a manifold at the reservoir on 4 x 3/16" runs. Used a generator and pump to transfer sap to a trailer at the road..
I appreciate all the thoughts and ideas.. Keep em coming...
Thanks
16539

[wmick]

I have been thinking of something like this, only non vented. Keeping the pumps in line. I dont have to do much lift just flat spots. I may try it out when the leaves drop with some water at the far end. Its to hot and a jungle out there now. If it works I will post results. Ive been amazed at the vac these little pumps pull. I have solar panels at pump sites 20w and the batteries will go 20-24 hours.

Couldn't tell you what size my battery is, off hand... Decent sized.. Large Pickup Truck size maybe? I have 2 and was changing it out daily... but at the end of my run, I left it hooked up, and my pump was still operating 2 or 3 days later... I couldn't believe it.... Going to add a solar panel next year... and see what happens.
Below is the pump and temperature controller I rigged up.

RioRand 12V DC Digital Cooling/Heating Thermostat Temp Control -50-110 °c Temperature Controller 10A Relay With Waterproof Sensor Probe
Sold by VANCOUVER SUN CDN$ 13.99

2x SHURflo 255-313 Classic Series Twist-On Strainer (1/2" FPT x 1/2" )
Sold by Amazon.com.ca, Inc. CDN$ 35.24

Amarine-made 12v Water Pressure Diaphragm Pump 4.3 L/min 1.1 GPM 35 PSI - Caravan/rv/boat/marine
Sold by Yaemart CDN$ 26.99