Sap ladder vs. ice

[Tweegs]

I have a 17’ ladder that brings 250 taps right up to the shack.
I’ve never liked this set-up, but it is convenient.

The A-number-1 problem is that a 3 foot slug of ice will develop at the base of the ladder after even a modest run. The base of the ladder is in a low, wet, partially shaded area and is only 1 foot off the ground. Because of this, that slug of ice can take 3 to 4 hours to thaw and that is costing me production.

I have a few ideas, none of which I’m overjoyed with, so I thought I’d bounce it off you folks and see if there isn’t something more to consider.

First thing I can do is run the vac pump a little longer. It is software driven and currently set to turn off at 31*. A couple lines of code and I can have it turn off say an hour after the temp drops below 31*.
That would be a start, but I don’t think it is the whole answer.

Could use a lifter in place of the ladder and run a dry line. Lifters are really expensive though.

Could move the releaser and tank down and pump the sap up thus eliminating the ladder, but a couple of problems here. First, the grounds is soft and usually wet in that area and frost heave would tend to toss everything off level. Second, I’d have to raise the line feeding the releaser up about 4 feet. There are 5 other mains connected to it so to keep from tapping in the crowns at the other end of those mains I’d need to use ladders to get up to the releaser height…I’ve just quintupled my problem. Burying the releaser tank is a bad idea anyway, but in an area that usually has a couple inches of standing water? Banish the thought.

Dry line past the ladder? Can’t get my head around how it would work given that universal “path of least resistance” thing.

The last piece in my bag-o-tricks would be to use BreezyHIlls ½” riser strategy, spread the risers out a bit and wrap some black plastic around the last few feet prior to the ladder in order to help warm things up a little quicker.

Beyond any of those, I’m at a loss.
Thoughts and ideas, what say ye?

[BAP]

First thought is that 31 degrees is to warm to shut your vacuum pump off. When the temperature drops, smaller items like lines will start freezing first before larger items like trees freeze. Keeping the pump on longer will keep the lines cleaned out until the trees freeze and stop running. Second thought, if you are trying to lift all 17' in one lift, that is a long way and sap probably isn't flowing the best it could. Breaking it up into 2-3 lifts would help a lot.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

1,the ladder is never cleaned out unless you drain it.
2 dry line will not work past the ladder

[BreezyHill]

my pump does stop until 29. moving sap in mains take time to loose the heat and moving sap doesn't freeze at 31.

You can run a wet dry system. You just have to have ladders in the dry side in case you get sap in them. I run a dry line about 800 feet currently and it will have another 500' added to it to get to ladder 5 in the series of 7 due to adding more taps for next season.

Now to drain a ladder there is a very simple tool to use, but you will loose the sap in the ladder unless you install a tank or tube to catch what leaks from a check valve when the vac is removed.

I added to an injector a check valve tap to keep bugs and debris from entering the injector. The pressure of the sap leaked the sap out of the system and onto the ground.

One cautionary suggestion... a dry system will remove the natural bubbles of the trees and leaks so install ball valves on the riser so that you can close any that are not needed when adjusting the ladder for peak flow. The valves also help when cleaning the lines

[Tweegs]

Thanks guys,
I knew I’d never get all of the sap out of the ladder, I just didn’t expect to have so much left. Certainly, running the pump longer should tame that.

Put the transit on it yesterday, looks like I can drop the run to the releaser by a foot and still maintain a 2.5% slope. I’ll bust that ladder down to two 8-footers and tweak a few other things, see if I can’t get a little improvement in vac transfer.

Noticed some surging in the laterals this year. Sap moving ahead two inches, back an inch…happening throughout the woods, probably not enough risers on that ladder.

Breezy, If I remember right, you said four ½” risers equals the same volume as a 1” main, is that correct?
Would you think 4 risers enough to handle 250 taps?

[BreezyHill]

Yes, I have over 600 going up 4 risers. I installed a ball valve on one riser to adjust as needed but didn't need it but for washing to get more active flow.