Maple Marketing Tools Poll

[DrTimPerkins]

Due to increasing production and high inventories, marketing is clearly a priority for the maple industry. The issue is how to find money to do this market research and sustain a national marketing campaign.

What is your opinion of investigating a national maple market order for maple or adding a tariff on imported maple syrup?

Definitions:

Tariff. A tax imposed on imported goods and services. Tariffs are used to restrict trade, as they increase the price of imported goods and services, making them more expensive to consumers. A specific tariff is levied as a fixed fee based on the type of item (e.g., $1,000 on any car).

Market Order. Marketing orders are measures intended to stabilise markets, standardise quality and packaging, regulate flows to the market and authorise research and development for certain farm commodities. They are used especially for fruits, vegetables and nuts.

Please don't participate if you are NOT from the U.S.

[blissville maples]

Marketing order?? But what measure are they talking about;. Taxes to fund a government research team who know and care nothing about Syrup can supposedly create more market?? And take more money to create government jobs........ instead of marketing we need to get maple syrup to all corners of the country so folks can see it and grab it off a shelf- a form of marketing more or less make available. Problem is it's up to the packers and companies like Shaws price chopper and Hannaford (or whatever they have out South and West) to buy and market at retail in their store......

Back to the question, a tariff would be good on Canadian imports to stop and or slow them but I don't think we need to fund more agencies or government circuses to make market.

What's going to do us all in and just look at what's happened to dairy industry in last 20 Years, price of milk went down so Farmers add more and more cows creating more milk dropping price more--- is this same exact thing not happening with maple as we speak??? Even I'm guilty, how do we stop it? I don't think we can we all or most want to be "there"

[blissville maples]

I have to ask Tim, what in the world is a national marketing campaign?? Sounds like liberal political garbage- something the Obama campaign would come up with. Why spend money on research- God knows we blow enough billions on research, which is mostly erranous- why not just create a market like I said, why doesn't Bruce Bascom or anyone else sell to all grocery chains?? Alot of places dont even have syrup for people to purchase​

[blissville maples]

What are you going to research, if it tastes better to a 5 year old than a ten year old.....I guess I can't relate

[DrTimPerkins]

Still looking for more respondents to this poll. Please vote if you haven't already. Thanks in advance.

[berkshires]

I think I shouldn't vote, since while I'm in the US, I don't sell my syrup. I will ask, though, why something like a commodity checkoff program (agreed on producer-funded and directed marketing organization) wasn't included in the poll? Seems like the sort of thing that the US Maple industry might be ready for. I dunno about billboards with "Got Maple" on them, but y'know, maybe tasting carts sponsored by the organization, stuff like that.

Gabe

[DrTimPerkins]

A "Market Order" and a "Commodity Checkoff" are essentially the same thing. Go ahead and vote.

[blissville maples]

Tariff on imported Canadian syrup, although I can't think of a good use​ for the money, the government certainly doesn't need it, ........

Certainly not a market order- sounds like the catalyst for a beginning to some sort of government subsidy

[berkshires]

A "Market Order" and a "Commodity Checkoff" are essentially the same thing. Go ahead and vote.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that a marketing order is primarily a method of price setting. It is not primarily a method of creating a revenue stream for marketing. Apples and oranges.

[Loch Muller]

If I'm understanding correctly, some market orders can also regulate the volume of product sold or regulate flows to market as Dr. Perkins said in the first post. Not sure exactly how that would go down though? Would that be like the quota they have up in Quebec or am I misunderstanding?

Bill

[Parker]

I really dont think we ever need or want a govt. Bailout for producers that got in too much debt or regulation on how much you can produce or someone determining for you other than the free market what the price per pound will be....it would be great if we got rid of all the govt handouts for more efficiant equipment as this creates an unfair advantage for the prodducers who take free money and imho has contributed to the downward price of bulk.....you can say its all canada all you want, and to some degree it is but the free stuff plays a role in added production here...

[wally]

the "free" stuff, such as available via USDA NRCS, isn't quite free. whatever funding is approved must still be claimed as income, and federal income taxes apply to the funding/grants. along with the strings of having uncle sam more involved in your operations than he already is.

[Parker]

When you get a 50k evaporator for 8k,,and you file a schedual f and as a farmer show little income what are the tax ramifacations?,,,,,,,but i digress,,,its just a my opinion and off topic but feel it has an effect,,,,,,,,,,,,,if something is set up how about a marketing department....that imho would be helpful to the indusrty as a whole and i would be happy to contribute to experts marketing american syrup worldwide,,,,lots of messy details,,but what would be the downside? Even if packers reaped most of the bennifit we would bennifit by increased demand,,,,,a federation style deal would be the worst senarieo,,we are after all capitalists

[maple maniac65]

[QUOTE=DrTimPerkins;334407]Due to increasing production and high inventories, marketing is clearly a priority for the maple industry. The issue is how to find money to do this market research and sustain a national marketing campaign.

What is your opinion of investigating a national maple market order for maple or adding a tariff on imported maple syrup?

Definitions:

Tariff. A tax imposed on imported goods and services. Tariffs are used to restrict trade, as they increase the price of imported goods and services, making them more expensive to consumers. A specific tariff is levied as a fixed fee based on the type of item (e.g., $1,000 on any car).

Market Order. Marketing orders are measures intended to stabilise markets, standardise quality and packaging, regulate flows to the market and authorise research and development for certain farm commodities. They are used especially for fruits, vegetables and nuts.

Please don't participate if you are NOT from the U.S.[/QUO


Is there a link to vote that I am missing?

[blissville maples]

Tim-. Looks like no one really wants government involved- if you speak to them, tell the cronies in Montpelier to stay the hell out of the maple Industry(cuz I'm sure that's where your headed with this). if they can't help milk industry they can't do a thing for us!

[n8hutch]

Is there a link to vote that I am missing?[/QUOTE]

Should be a link at the top of the page.

[markcasper]

What's going to do us all in and just look at what's happened to dairy industry in last 20 Years, price of milk went down so Farmers add more and more cows creating more milk dropping price more--- is this same exact thing not happening with maple as we speak??? Even I'm guilty, how do we stop it? I don't think we can we all or most want to be "there"

I'll weigh in here. I was at a birthday party for a cousin of my mother. He turned 70 and they had a few pages on the wall of what prices were in 1947. A gallon of milk was listed as being .80 cents at the store, while minimum wage was listed at .43 cent/hour. (Federal minimum wage was not a law until 1967 I believe, which by the way was $1.00 per hour that year.) Spring forward to today, minimum wage is $7.25 per hour, practically a 17 times increase. Milk, a gallon sells for what? $3.00? Only a 5 time increase. It should cost $13.60 a gallon, people in this country do not know how cheaply they are filling their bellies today. Is there any wonder all the empty barns by the thouthe 10's of thousands across this land.

How did this happen? The influx of illegal aliens working on these farms is the #1 reason. Over 50% of the labor on these large farms is being done illegally and noone seems to care. And people wonder why our national debt is plus 20 trillion? Well this is a large part of it. A family farm that does not break the law and employ these illegals cannot compete and eventually succombs. The larger farms are no doubt more efficient labor wise, but they are not more efficient land use wise. . There are large pockets of monocultures that are affecting the air, water, and soil all over now and it is not a good thing, this never was the case on farms 30 and plus years ago.

While I do not know any maple farmers hiring illegals, the advent of the RO machine and plastic tubing/vacuum is one of the biggest contributors to our over supply problem as of late. Its just plain too easy to make it now, while producing something people really don't need. I would eat meat and cheese before syrup if I had only one choice. With that being said, the big dairy farms have capitalized on this "easy" and cheap labor resource and have just plain overproduced. It again is just too easy when our government allows it. There is no money in feeding people.

[markcasper]

. if they can't help milk industry they can't do a thing for us!

They can help out the milk industry if the US government would follow the laws already on the books and DEPORT the illegal aliens. ALL OF THEM!!!!

[GeneralStark]

The poll is about "maple marketing". Don't see anything about dairy at all... Perhaps someone should start a thread in the off-topic section and the dairy industry so that conversation can stay out of the maple threads.

The biggest challenge to broadly marketing maple as a sweetener is competition with the corn industry. Without massive subsidies and a strong lobby, the maple industry is never going to compete in the large scale sweetener market.

Perhaps another option would be looking into forming a lobby group to push for subsidies so the price can be artificially lowered to be competitive with corn.

Or, this lobby group could work to stand up to the corn industry and work to eradicate all subsidies to that industry.

[DrTimPerkins]

Tim-. Looks like no one really wants government involved..

There has been a lot of talk about tariffs and market orders lately. My intention was to see how widespread it is. Based upon the numbers responding to the poll (look at the very top of this page), it appears that a strong majority would like an investigation into one or both.

Governments impose tariffs. A Market Order is essentially the industry itself writing the rules about what the order is, who participates, how much each producer/packer pays, and how the money is spent. The only governmental involvement is to set up the legal framework to make it happen. A board is set up (as defined by the order....which the industry writes up itself and decides the composition of the board), typically of volunteers (unpaid), and these folks make the decisions on the types of marketing efforts money is spent on.

[blissville maples]

Yea more lobbyists-- pro government, huh. Never be a natural sweetener cuz everyone wants a hundred a gallon . Right not about dairy but it relates to it in very similar ways......u wanna talk subsides etc....look at dairy, making taxes for up, farmer can't make money so we'll.give it to him so we can say we have farms

[blissville maples]

There has been a lot of talk about tariffs and market orders lately. My intention was to see how widespread it is. Based upon the numbers responding to the poll (look at the very top of this page), it appears that a strong majority would like an investigation into one or both.

Governments impose tariffs. A Market Order is essentially the industry itself writing the rules about what the order is, who participates, how much each producer/packer pays, and how the money is spent. The only governmental involvement is to set up the legal framework to make it happen. A board is set up (as defined by the order....which the industry writes up itself and decides the composition of the board), typically of volunteers (unpaid), and these folks make the decisions on the types of marketing efforts money is spent on.it would not be the industry itself writing anything, it would be a panel of pro government idiots trying to make sense of something they can't even begin to understand

[markcasper]

You do know that the US packers are going to fight this hook, line and sinker in my opinion. They love to expand "their" market in an environment such as we have now.

[blissville maples]

[QUOTE=markcasper;334736]They can help out the milk industry if the US government would follow the laws already on the books and DEPORT the illegal aliens. ALL OF THEM!!!![/QUOTE
There it is!!!! Law is the law

" Oh but that's un-american". My *** is American and I love the idea, why are all these liberals speaking for me...hell with that it is American kick em out!!

[DrTimPerkins]

The biggest challenge to broadly marketing maple as a sweetener is competition with the corn industry.

I would argue that the biggest challenge is simply getting people to realize that "maple syrup" is not the same as "table (corn) syrup." The biggest impediment to meeting this challenge is funding to educate consumers about the benefits of maple syrup over artificially-flavored corn syrup. That education simply cannot be done one consumer at a time as the maple industry has been trying to do for the past 50+ years. The market in New England/New York understands....outside of that they have no clue. Two things need to be done: 1) increase U.S. consumer awareness about PURE maple syrup and its benefits over competitors, and 2) increase consumption rates (even by a small amount). Neither of those are terribly difficult with a national campaign....but without funding to do it, it will NOT happen. Therefore the choice is to stop expanding (and possibly contract, meaning some producers STOP making syrup) and allow Canada to continue to fill the bulk of the U.S. maple syrup market demand, or to find sources of funding to MARKET PURE MAPLE SYRUP....which is what most producers seem to be clamoring about right now.

[hookhill]

HOW about a syrup coop.? Producers run their own packing plant and marketing

[DrTimPerkins]

Before we go any further, a reminder that civility is required in any conversation in this forum. Let's all play nice.

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?30864-A-few-tips-on-dealing-with-posts-you-don-t-like&highlight=playground

[blissville maples]

You know what's really time for people to start understanding how this world works and I realize this isn't exactly maple but it ties into it in many ways......price of equipment is so high because every consumer of everything is paying for all this liberal agenda crap driving everybody cost of living up- the execs of every company out there, from leader evaporator, to coca cola is passing the buck to us.....all of Washington is figured into every product you buy from every single company doing business in USA- the consumer pays for all the commercial on TV, radio.....the consumer pays for these cronies to debate sanctuary cities, fags getting married, everything we pay for....when. Washington DC acts like a bunch of kids and shut it down we pay for it.....when we create panels of overlapping government for this and that it costs us.......I don't know about you but I'm sick of making 1.40 to bring home a dollar!!!! Taxes near .50 on a dollar... U pay payroll tax, then anything you buy after that is taxed again, it's bs and discussing things like market order and this and that etc sounds like more government to me, Yea let's start a federation down here, great idea. You should look how Canada​ does things you would not like--- communism

[DrTimPerkins]

Bliss, I understand your position and think there is some segment of the population that agrees. In order to make this conversation a bit more constructive, how do you suggest we deal with the continued expansion of maple in the U.S., competition from Canada, and dropping price of bulk syrup. In other words, is there another choice or two I might have considered putting on the poll? Or is it not important?

[blissville maples]

Also, the majority of "real sugarmaker" not hobbyist don't even mess with this site bc of what I find.....deal with a bunch of people who are ill concepted and more opinion than anything..... sometimes i ask myself why I even come on here, but I enjoy sharing information and learning what others have tried.....but remember this poll is not targeting the majority of producers, because they will never read the question..... there's 5-8 sugarmaker who makes 1500 gals + aren't even registered on mapletrader.....

[blissville maples]

Limit production is the only way....u can't make people buy syrup who don't want it.....I don't know what else to say to help the market.....it's a free world and as many people who want to produce are allowed to

[blissville maples]

And if people continue to demand 50$ for a gallon we will NEVER tap into a white sugar market, or beat any other sweetener currently

[blissville maples]

Bliss, I understand your position and think there is some segment of the population that agrees. In order to make this conversation a bit more constructive, how do you suggest we deal with the continued expansion of maple in the U.S., competition from Canada, and dropping price of bulk syrup. In other words, is there another choice or two I might have considered putting on the poll? Or is it not important?

Honestly, we just need to accept that the maple Industry may come tumbling down if people don't​ t see the big picture.....I mean what are you gonna do.....sell to a non existent consumer?? I mean we can do market research but what?? What can you possibly research?? If it can be made into gasoline?? We already know what can be done with Syrup, we all wish there was a quick magic answer- but there isn't and no amount of research will change that People are already adding more taps to make up for the low prices....it's a bad thing

[blissville maples]

HOW about a syrup coop.? Producers run their own packing plant and marketing

A co-op would potentially help, but your still competing with Bascoms, and to build one would be costly while trying to compete on the dollar level

[blissville maples]

Perhaps this is why Canada started the quota system, to ensure what is happening here doesn't happen up there....but now they added to quota bc America is taking all the new market....so now they either lose out or participate in more production and ruin their market in the following years...no wonder why most countries hate us greedy American

[DrTimPerkins]

So I take from all those messages that your preferred option is the same as Poll question #1, "No change in maple marketing approach"? If so, then 11.43% of the poll respondents agree with you.

[berkshires]

Honestly, we just need to accept that the maple Industry may come tumbling down if people don't​ t see the big picture.....I mean what are you gonna do.....sell to a non existent consumer??

Blissville, you are blissfully ignorant of the power of marketing: The power to get people to need things they didn't even know existed. Dr Tim is right: There's an enormous market of potential maple syrup users in the US who have never considered it as a possible better option to table syrup. By the way, marketing is a key element in the "free market" in the USA. Those who excel at it win, and those who don't are trampled in the dust.

I'm not going to vote, because I don't sell syrup, but I agree that the time is right for US maple producers to band together to market the product nationally.

GO

[blissville maples]

Blissville, you are blissfully ignorant of the power of marketing: The power to get people to need things they didn't even know existed. Dr Tim is right: There's an enormous market of potential maple syrup users in the US who have never considered it as a possible better option to table syrup. By the way, marketing is a key element in the "free market" in the USA. Those who excel at it win, and those who don't are trampled in the dust.

I'm not going to vote, because I don't sell syrup, but I agree that the time is right for US maple producers to band together to market the product nationally.

GOpeople know what syrup is, ok, they just don't have access to it....they dont need to be told what it is, they need to be able to pick it up off a shelf, and the majority of them walk by cuz it's either put a meal on the table or buy this expensive sweetener... Not everyone can afford northface!!! Band together what are we going to March to DC and make people buy a sometimes overpriced product- cuz when people think maple syrup next thing is I can't afford it or that's an obsurd price.......I actually think marketing more half pints, say for 5-8$. Yes your not getting much but it's the price people shy away from not the quantity. Most stores are 19.99 a qt, you can buy a lb of king crab legs for that. However a 5-8$ small container isn't so bad to stomach

[blissville maples]

So I take from all those messages that your preferred option is the same as Poll question #1, "No change in maple marketing approach"? If so, then 11.43% of the poll respondents agree with you.
Yes

But the respondants you have answering are a fraction of the people who are actually supplying the packers.....go to CDL dealers and leader dealer and talk to some of the folks who produce 1000+ gals a year, I bet you get a totally different tally

[DrTimPerkins]

....I bet you get a totally different tally

You might be correct, or perhaps not. This is simply a start. I've had discussions with many producers, both large and small. Some are for doing nothing, some for tariffs, some for market orders.

Please note that I have not advocated one way or another or stated what my personal opinion is.....I'm not pushing any agenda.. I am just trying to get a feeling for the sentiment that is out there by asking if this is something that should be "investigated", not whether people think this is something that should be done. Typically, if it's a tariff, the government does that (and who really understands that decision-making process). If it is a market order, it is devised by the industry and voted upon by the industry. If accepted, it does have the rule of law however.

[Parker]

What marketing can do is amazing...especially targeted marketing...syrup has some bennificial stuff in it that appeal to the "north face" crowd...the folks that have disposabel income...so im one of the only guys on here that make well over 1kgal a year,,,come on dude,,,
Try reading the book "how to win friends and influance people" its great that your passonate about the subject,,,but,,to get your point across,,,well,,, there are more effective ways.......

[minehart gap]

With at least a portion of the people in this forum having full time jobs and only producing maple syrup for fun or supplemental income, is there anyone that has a "real job" in the marketing and/or advertising field? Or a brother, sister, wife, husband, father, mother, etc.. that could help here?

Wally "the "free" stuff, such as available via USDA NRCS, isn't quite free. whatever funding is approved must still be claimed as income, and federal income taxes apply to the funding/grants. along with the strings of having uncle sam more involved in your operations than he already is."

Wally, you are 95% correct. there is little to no "free" stuff from NRCS. It is almost all "cost sharing". The method that is used is that NRCS pays the "operator"(you) a fixed amount for each of there practices based on quantity installed or treated upon completion. The operator in turn hires contractors (or does the work themselves) to preform the tasks to NRCS standards. Only after the practices is complete and functional is the operator given the cost share portion of funds from NRCS. The amount that the NRCS pays is not a percentage of the project, it is a fixed amount per practice. As far as Uncle Sam involvement, before and during the project you are correct, tax payers are about to invest a lot of money on your property, someone should be involved. It will be planned and inspected to ensure compliance. In addition, there are lifespans for each of the practices and the operator is expected to maintain the practice for that length of time. For example, If they put in a Access Road and Belt Breaker water divertors that have lifespans of 10 years, the operator is expected to keep the road up and belt breaker usable for 10 years. In my opinion, it is not a bad idea. Do your homework first. I was offered a special interest project for warbler habitat. This would be a limited contract and would not have given me the end result that I desire. I am holding out on a EQIP contract. Contact your local NRCS office if you are interested.