Number of Taps for 3/16 Gravity

[minehart gap]

With the introduction of 3/16" tubing, and consequently the higher gravity vacuum levels in the tubing, has anyone looked at the number of taps per tree?

I am planning a 3/16" gravity system that will have a minimum of 20' drop downward from the final tap on the shortest run before connecting to a main. Will this type system act more like a vacuum system whereas I should only install 1 tap per tree or should I treat it more like a gravity system and therefore install 1 tap up to 20" tree and 2 taps after that?

[minehart gap]

I failed to mention, I plan to use Leader Check Valve Adapters with Stubby Spouts on 3/16" leaders to a 3/16" lateral. The shortest lateral will be about 400' with 12 trees (up to 18 taps if tree size is applicable) the longest being about 700 feet with 21 trees available (up to 35 taps if tree size is applicable)

[motowbrowne]

I put one 5/16 tap in each tree on vacuum unless it's too big for me to reach around. My wingspan is about 6'4", so that means a tree I can't reach around is over 24" in diameter.

They're your trees, so it's your decision to make. That's just what works for me.

[Road's End]

I put 2 in bigger trees with 3/16 gravity. I would also look at splitting your long run into 2 separate lines. I have a few lines we put put out this year with 30ish taps and they were overloaded. We'll be re-doing them aiming for about 20 taps per line so we don't overwhelm the smaller 3/16 line. Some 'experts' on 3/16 suggest 25 maximum for gravity.

[minehart gap]

Roads End, if I were to separate the long lateral into 2 lines, the first would be around 400 feet but one of the lines would still be about 700 feet long only with less taps on it because that is how far it is from my tank to the furthest tree. Would that matter?

[Super Sapper]

Roads End, if I were to separate the long lateral into 2 lines, the first would be around 400 feet but one of the lines would still be about 700 feet long only with less taps on it because that is how far it is from my tank to the furthest tree. Would that matter?

As long as you have the elevation drop that distance would not be a problem.

[minehart gap]

My original question was about the vacuum. Basically does a tree act differently as a reaction to natural vacuum caused by siphon as opposed to mechanical vacuum? As both have a suction action on the tap. I have read in multiple threads that there is not a benefit to multiple taps in one tree when using vacuum, but all of the posts that I read were referring to mechanical vacuum not vacuum from gravity. Possibly there is no difference.

[DrTimPerkins]

Will this type system act more like a vacuum system ...

Vacuum is vacuum is vacuum. How it is generated is immaterial as far as tree sap flow is concerned.

[blissville maples]

My original question was about the vacuum. Basically does a tree act differently as a reaction to natural vacuum caused by siphon as opposed to mechanical vacuum? As both have a suction action on the tap. I have read in multiple threads that there is not a benefit to multiple taps in one tree when using vacuum, but all of the posts that I read were referring to mechanical vacuum not vacuum from gravity. Possibly there is no difference.

There is misleading information out there on additional taps per tree and will it help, I say more taps more sap, obviously no more than what's sustainable, I do not over tap my trees however nothing wrong with 2 taps in a 14-18" tree..

Picture a five gallon bucket​ full of water and under pressure, obviously five holes will have, if at same height, one gallon of water a piece until the bucket is empty....you could accomplish this with one hole Right?? Under certain conditions, no. If the single hole froze when the bucket was half full due to a freeze up, remember the bucket is example for the tree, then the bucket was not exhausted of that liquid or sap run. If there was 5 holes the bucket would have emptied before it froze.

To sum it up on short run days where the run only lasts a few hours you WILL get more sap out of a tree with more taps. However on a long run day of 12-24hrs+. The single tap per tree will give you the exact same available amount of sap as 2-3 taps.....the sap will find the hole if given enough free time.

[blissville maples]

This is why I believe going organic will reduce your GPT and the extra .15 does not make up the small loss in sap

[maple flats]

Regarding taps per tree, I use 1 for 9"-23" if healthy, and 2 at 24"+ but only if the tree looks good and healthy. Never more than 2. I have hybrid vacuum, all are on 19-25" vacuum and then on lines that have at least 10' of drop I use 3/16 laterals. I had as many as 41 taps on one line, most were 3 or less, for next year all lines of 28 or more will be redone to split them in 2. While the longest (1100') with 41 taps still had vacuum on the lowest tree, I'm thinking it may have not been as high as it could be if I split the lateral into 2 lines.
I have only had 3/16 for 2 seasons and I'm still tweaking the system for better performance. In 2017 I had about 2/3 of the taps on a 638 tap bush on 3/16, next year it will be a 725 tap bush and about 80% will be 3/16.

[Road's End]

I failed to mention, I plan to use Leader Check Valve Adapters with Stubby Spouts on 3/16" leaders to a 3/16" lateral. The shortest lateral will be about 400' with 12 trees (up to 18 taps if tree size is applicable) the longest being about 700 feet with 21 trees available (up to 35 taps if tree size is applicable)

My plan to split our lines will end up about the same as you, with long lines. Friction loss is negligible in sap lines so a long line won't make too much of a difference. Sure it sucks to use so much 3/16" but I figure the alternative (a vacuum pump) is much more expensive.

[minehart gap]

My plan to split our lines will end up about the same as you, with long lines. Friction loss is negligible in sap lines so a long line won't make too much of a difference. Sure it sucks to use so much 3/16" but I figure the alternative (a vacuum pump) is much more expensive.

Road's End, I may be mistaken but I believe that you can run 3/16 gravity into a gravity main. This is what I plan to do in a couple years when I expand my sugarbush. If you have drop for the entire longer run, wouldn't you also have drop for a main?

[minehart gap]

Picture a five gallon bucket​ full of water and under pressure, obviously five holes will have, if at same height, one gallon of water a piece until the bucket is empty....you could accomplish this with one hole Right?? Under certain conditions, no. If the single hole froze when the bucket was half full due to a freeze up, remember the bucket is example for the tree, then the bucket was not exhausted of that liquid or sap run. If there was 5 holes the bucket would have emptied before it froze.

What a great way to explain this. Thank you, blissville maples, but I am not following you when you say "This is why I believe going organic will reduce your GPT and the extra .15 does not make up the small loss in sap". Im not sure what one has to do with the other unless with organic you are only permitted 1 tap per tree.

[maple flats]

The number of taps per tree are not related to how much sap could be extracted from that tree but rather how long it takes for that tree to add enough new growth as you continue to tap year after year so you have enough new wood when you tap over that old tap hole again. The tree will compartmentalize a column an 1.0-1.5" around that tap hole and from 12-24" above and below the hole. The tree needs time thus to add enough new wood so when you tap that spot again, drilling a 1.5" to maybe even 2" deep hole you don't end up drilling into a sealed off compartment. I put a piece of 5/16 tubing on my bits to stop it at 1.25" deep, that helps.

[spud]

I remember reading on the PMRC site a while back on sap extraction. Putting a second tap on a 14-16 tree will not make enough difference to pay for the .50 drop and new spout every year. Organic is paying .20 cents more this year. If you had 1000 taps in an Organic woods and got .45GPT at 2% sugar that would pay you $11,038. If you two tapped those trees you would get about a .3 GPT With possibly a little less sugar. But if you got 2% also then you would make $13,398. That would be $2360 more. You would spend $250 more on spouts and $500 to put the drops in. There would be two more days of tapping so that would be 16 hours x $13 per hour= $208. You would spend another $50 pulling spouts. You also would have twice as much possible vacuum leaks. You would also spend twice as much on saddles for the additional taps. You might make a bit more in the end but would it be worth it? It's not for me to say. If i was not Organic I think I would rather tap everything over 6 inches rather then adding two taps to most trees.

Spud