Making sap flow uphill- can I sap ladder this

[mudr]

Howdy folks. I put in my first tubing last year, ~130 taps on a straight shot of 3/4 downhill to a collection tank. I was tickled with how well the tubing worked. My problem that I encountered was getting the sap out. I have to cross along the edge of a field to get to the woods. I pumped out with a WX10 to the edge of the woods (+/-400 ft), but my 2wd John Deere B did not like the mud that much. The farm that rents the field likes to fall plow, which makes things rather soft during sap weather.

Can I pull the sap out with a vacuum pump and sap ladder setup? See the map below. The blue line is the existing 3/4 with 130 taps, which currently drains into a tank in the woods. I'd like to move the tank out of the woods, and put it closer to the lane on the other side of the hill. I'd have to pull all the sap up +/-28 ft of hill, which is a relatively constant slope. I'd put the tank, pump, and releaser just past the hill, which is closer to the lane. This entire stretch would be about 900 feet from the first ladder to the new, proposed tank location. While this would take some time up front for installation, I like the idea of this as it is cheaper than either a new 4wd tractor or bringing in a bunch of crushed stone. That field gets pretty soggy in the corner close to the woods. I don't like getting stuck out there when I don't have a 4wd available to pull me out.

So in summary, can I lift 130 taps 28 ft (three ladders with two stars each?) 900 feet? I am watching ebay for a gast 1550 and already have a "big" glass bender releaser.

16320

[madmapler]

28' Is doable with sap ladders however, I'd consider doing 3 or 4 ladders. You'll be adding a few more feet to get your pitch. I'd also hold out for a Gast 2565. It will get you about 5 more hg's and quite a few more cfms. They're abundant on ebay and I've never paid more than 200.00 for one. I have 4. One was brand new. The trick is to keep checking and wait until the right one comes along.

[mudr]

Thank you, was planning 3 ladders. That way they would be about 9-10 ft each

1550s seem to be common on ebay, I was watching a couple but both disappeared. I didn't want to pull the trigger before I had a better idea if it could work. I'm ok with not the deepest of vaccum for now, though more CFM would be nice to overcome some of the distance losses. I feel like most of the 2565s I've seen have been about twice the price of the 1550s. Plus, I will be running this on gas. I'd rather not be feeding a motor 10 gal/day. This is assuming a 1550 can actually do what I want.

[madmapler]

I've run both a 1550 and a 2565 on a gas engine. you can use a 3hp. for either pump just fine, in fact, I don't use all the power available. I get the right pulley ratio and idle them down. I used to use propane which means even less power. You'll lose some hg's with the ladders. This you probably already know. If you watch and wait, you will get a 2565 for under $200. It's a matter of being patient. I've got a lot of experience with what you're doing as do a few other guys on the trader. A 1550 will work for you but I assure you that a 2565 is much better.

[mudr]

I've run both a 1550 and a 2565 on a gas engine. you can use a 3hp. for either pump just fine, in fact, I don't use all the power available. I get the right pulley ratio and idle them down. I used to use propane which means even less power. You'll lose some hg's with the ladders. This you probably already know. If you watch and wait, you will get a 2565 for under $200. It's a matter of being patient. I've got a lot of experience with what you're doing as do a few other guys on the trader. A 1550 will work for you but I assure you that a 2565 is much better.

Good to know, both the hp requirements and price for the 2565.

Based on your experience, will that 2656 have enough cfm to pull sap the ~900 ft of 1 inch line plus 3 ladders? I know distance and ladders rob CFM, but this is new to me.

[madmapler]

Good to know, both the hp requirements and price for the 2565.

Based on your experience, will that 2656 have enough cfm to pull sap the ~900 ft of 1 inch line plus 3 ladders? I know distance and ladders rob CFM, but this is new to me.

If I had to guess, I'd say you will have at least 23-24" at the other end of the ladders. I have 2- 2565s giving me 26" at the releaser with 1275 taps. I have one small (3') ladder with no detectable drop.

[mudr]

Sounds good. I may need to cap my vacuum to around 20 with a regulator since I only have a dairy releaser as of now. Even if I lose from there, I will take 15 inches at the trees. My main goal as of now is to pull sap. I am happy with the increased production, but with my 2x6 I don't think I can handle 300 gallons each run with my job and kids, haha.

[madmapler]

Sounds good. I may need to cap my vacuum to around 20 with a regulator since I only have a dairy releaser as of now. Even if I lose from there, I will take 15 inches at the trees.

Introducing a controlled leak at the bottom of a ladder via a valve is sometimes good for getting the sap to the top. I don't do it but a lot of guys do.

[BreezyHill]

I would do that with two 14' ladders. My tallest is 18' and prefer to not go past 16 with new ones due to the reach of my equipment.

The reason for two ladders is: that when using stars there is an increased risk of debris or grung plugging the holes on the stars. The more stars you have the greater the risk,
cost is increased the number of ladders you install,
maintance is also increased...ladders need to be washed out after the season to limit grung.


I use injectors on many of my ladders. You may not need to if you have enough tree gases and free air in your system. After a season or two you will be experienced in finding leaks. You will fix all you can to get your vac as high as the pump will allow to get more sap.

Ladders that don't have injectors are after a ladder with an injector and no added taps. Once the bubbles are in the system to expedite the sap up the riser there is no benefit to more.

I have started to change over nearly all of my ladders to 1/2" riser for the faster thawing and more efficient sap lifting of the 1/2" riser vs the 5/15" riser on our farm. I did have a single 3/4" line that had 1 6 way star that was lifting over 200 taps on high vac 28"+. The fewer risers the faster the sap has to flow and the better my vac levels were after the ladders. Slow risers had losses of vac that was not acceptable to me.
16325

That's my releaser. Only a few changes from then to know.
Bender will work just fine.

I don't use a regulator as I want all the vac I can get and the higher the vac the better the ladders run.

Follow the rules of ladders and you will be just fine.

Ben



Do as madmapler says and go for the larger pump. I am willing to bet that in a few years you will expand your taps and the more CFMs you have the better.