How to clean 5/16 check valve spouts

[mspina14]

I bought new Leader 5/16 clear check valve spouts this year:

16319

I was told that these can be cleaned and reused for next year.

How do I clean them?

Do you pull the spout, cut the drop line from the spout, and remove the remaining plastic around the spout barb? Then boil the spouts in water and re-install them on the drop line? :confused:

Thanks for any help.

Mark

[wiam]

They are expected to be used for one season.

[motowbrowne]

Throw them away and buy new ones.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Unless you have access to an autoclave, throw them away and buy new

[AdirondackSap]

I have saved my taps every year. I literrally uave thousands of old chexk valve tapa. I was told after 3 yeRs all bacteria dies. I plan on using these taps. 8 thousand taps at 40 centz each is alot of cash.

[maple maniac65]

I have saved my taps every year. I literrally uave thousands of old chexk valve tapa. I was told after 3 yeRs all bacteria dies. I plan on using these taps. 8 thousand taps at 40 centz each is alot of cash.

So your saying that bacteria dies after three years. Let's see I am going to leave my dinner dishes in the sink for three years then they are good enough to use again. This sounds harsh but I think it is what is being implied.

[Cody]

Do they make a spout extension,that would be cheaper.

[upsmapleman]

Sometimes I think to much. I have a hard time trying to figure out how bacteria can penterate plastic but nothing else can. You are allowed to use plastic in the food industry you just need to follow the recommended sanintation pratices. It hard for me to see why taps soaked in sanitizer used in the food industry, would not be able to touch bacteria on taps when it does on plastic in all other aspects.

[n8hutch]

Sometimes I think to much. I have a hard time trying to figure out how bacteria can penterate plastic but nothing else can. You are allowed to use plastic in the food industry you just need to follow the recommended sanintation pratices. It hard for me to see why taps soaked in sanitizer used in the food industry, would not be able to touch bacteria on taps when it does on plastic in all other aspects.

The problem with this logic is in the general industry a plastic cutting board or utensil dishwasher rack you name it is being washed constantly, what little bit of microbial bacteria is remaining in the plastic doesn't have time to grow because it's constantly being knocked back down again, you wash a tap once. Stick it on a cup tee or in a box for 9 months then you tap it into a tree that becomes a warm wet environment with food"sugar" for the bacteria you couldn't get with your sanitation process to grow in.
That's how it was explained to me, and I think it makes sense.

[DrTimPerkins]

Do they make a spout extension,that would be cheaper.

Yes, Leader makes the standard (black) CV spout adapter as well as clear CV spout adapter. Both of these can be used with a 7/16" spout or a stubby spout.

[DrTimPerkins]

Besides the issue of sanitizing spouts not being as effective (in terms of increasing sap yields), the other issue is that small residue of dried up microbial goop can clog the CV ball itself, leading to improper or incomplete sealing/seating of the ball during periods of backflow.

[upsmapleman]

Plan to ask my state inspector this year when we have our food trailer inspected. He has no vested interest in selling new every year and I'm curious why the bacteria cannot be killed with sanitizer. Like I say just curious.

[mspina14]

I'm a small hobbyist, so I can easily buy 80 taps for next year.

But I am curious.

I work in management in the surgical healthcare industry. We autoclave (sterilize) stainless steel instruments and small, plastic medical components every day (and reuse them on people in surgery).

So, it seems logical that one could (in theory), sterilize the taps at the end of the season, store them in an airtight container, resterilize them again just before tapping at the beginning of the sugar season, and then tap them into the tree.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but has anyone tried this and found they had significant bacterial contamination in the tap?

I'm a student of sugaring and just trying to educate myself and learn from others.

Thanks

Mark

[upsmapleman]

I'm curious also. I spend $2500 a year on adapters and was looking to see if it is necessary. I have 3 neighbors who switched from check valve to the ones with silver ions in and they saw no decrease and they got just as many gallons per tap as I did this year on adapters which were 3 years old. I thought I would sort mine throw away any that look unusable again, wash and santize the rest. After I talk to the inspector and get his opinion I will decide if I will reuse them. He may know a lab where I could send some samples to be tested to see for sure.

[Ivyacres]

Dr Tim,
Has anything been tried with ultrasonic s, that you know of? I have access to some equipment that is used for specialty surgery equipment and avionics in new manufacturing.

[DrTimPerkins]

Much of this has been presented at dozens of meetings, in many publications, and discussed ad nauseum on this and other sites, so I am reluctant to wade in with a long explanation, so realize this is the very short version.

1. Microbes live in tubing systems (sugar water + warm = happy bugs)
2. Trees don't like to have microbes in tapholes....it represents an infection. They sense these are there and respond by exuding various substances that gum up and eventually render the area around a taphole non-functional in terms of passing sap through this area. Eventually it shows up as a stained compartment. This zone will never transmit sap again. The process takes a while for the affected area to become visible, but sap flow will slow down within a few weeks if the eliciting factor is high (spouts are used and dirty). The bottom line is the cleaner the taphole the more sap a producer will get over the season and the longer the season will last.
3. New spouts are very clean (not sterile). Cleaned spouts CAN also be very clean, but hardly ever quite as clean as a new spout. Yes, boiling will help. Yes, soaking in bleach will help (careful doing that with metal spouts though). Other things will help also. However most producers, and certainly producers who have thousands of taps don't want to go to the trouble because TIME is money, and because these methods tend to produce results that are not quite as good as using a new spout. Now if you've got 20 spouts and want to take 2 hrs to meticulously clean them....by all means go for it. If you've got 2 thousand or 20 thousand spouts chance are you're not going to do that.
4. Spouts and droplines cause contamination of tapholes due to backflow in the tubing system. This happens somewhat on gravity, but is more of an issue on vacuum tubing systems. It can be reduced in a variety of ways (eliminating leaks, using an electric releaser, etc.), but never totally eliminated.
5. The further from the taphole you get, the less influence contamination has. The spout is the most important, then the dropline. The lateral line and especially the mainlines have very little effect on taphole sanitation, so we can basically ignore these.
6. The EASIEST and MOST COST EFFECTIVE (highest net profit) way for producers is to either use new spouts annually and replace droplines every 3 yrs (average) or to use CV spouts/adapters and not worry about droplines (until you reach the end of their useful age 10-15 yrs for most tubing). In almost all the work done, whether at PMRC, Cornell or elsewhere, research shows that the CV tends to produce the highest net profits. Replacement with non-CV spouts annually and replacement of spouts every 3 yrs comes in close, but due to the extra materials cost and labor involved in changing out drops, it usually doesn't beat CV spouts. Cleaning of spouts/tubing and cleaning of tubing and replacing spouts has a lower net profit than replacement strategies.
7. We've not tried ultrasonics, but know people who have. They stopped doing it after a few years. Most people don't have access to an autoclave. Even hospitals don't autoclave everything due to the cost involved (mostly labor). The small cheap stuff is tossed and a new one used. So it comes down to "can you clean it well enough"....well you can get it close....but given the cost/benefit ratios, most producers would rather spend their time doing other things to improve their operations. As for the silver spouts....we actually tried that approach for a few years BEFORE the silver spout was introduced. We stopped for four reasons: A) cost was very high (although the price of the production silver spout has come down a lot), B) the efficacy of microbial kill dropped off quickly over time and was low by the end of the 2nd season of use, C) this material can NOT be used by organic certified maple producers and D) silver ions are released by this material into sap and thus technically could be deemed illegal. To my knowledge, nobody has looked at how much silver is released into sap by these spouts.

[Ivyacres]

Dr Tim,
Very much appreciate the detailed response, I will print it out for my family and friends. I don't know if an analogy between cutting ourselves to drilling a hole in a tree would be appropriate, but I think it's close to how we would take care to make sure no bacteria would enter us and how putting a dirty bandage on would cause a negative result, similar to using an almost clean spiel and a trees quick response to heal. What kind of magnification would you need to see the difference between new and used spiels, if you could?
Sorry, but this science intrigues me.
Many Thanks!

[DrTimPerkins]

I don't know if an analogy between cutting ourselves to drilling a hole in a tree would be appropriate, but I think it's close to how we would take care to make sure no bacteria would enter us and how putting a dirty bandage on would cause a negative result, similar to using an almost clean spiel and a trees quick response to heal. What kind of magnification would you need to see the difference between new and used spiels, if you could?

Yes, that analogy is appropriate in some ways. Trees are living things, and like us they do not want to get infections inside their tissues, and thus they have mechanisms to prevent the spread. Animals have white blood cells and antibodies to kill invaders. Plants put up "walls" surrounding affected areas (like tapholes) by shunting various metabolites into those areas (mostly phenolic substances) which make it inhospitable to microbes, which prevents or slows them from growing into these zones.

We don't visually look for the microbes, although there has been a good deal of work looking at biofilms that develop in maple tubing using an electron microscope (so not something you'll find in most labs). One really big misconception is that you can tell how "clean" maple tubing is by looking at it. I guarantee that you cannot. Biofilms are exceedingly difficult to dislodge due to the slime that microbes exude that glue them to surfaces and protect them from being dislodged or killed by sanitizers. Instead, we use what is called an ATP luminometer to measure microbial contamination. All living things contain ATP as an energy source. We swab a surface or collect a sap sample and put it into a holder where it gets mixed with luciferase enzyme (the compound that makes fireflies glow). When the ATP in the microbes and the luciferase react, light is produced. The instrument measures the light level, which tells us how much contamination is present. Very quick and easy, quantifiable, and relatively cheap (a few $ per sample, but the luminometer isn't cheap). These types of devices are used a lot in the food industry to check for contamination in production lines to check if they've been cleaned properly. We use them to test different cleaning methods of spouts/tubing to see how effective they are, however the real test is to measure the effects of various levels of contamination on sap yield....which is far more difficult, time consuming, and costly.

http://www.uvm.edu/sites/default/files/bacterialadhesion.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16515815

[blissville maples]

You throw them In the garbage, because as I found the slime snot and boogers builds up on the ball and prohibited it from seating properly eliminate it's check valve capability...I pulled taps one year with vac on to rinse everything from the tap all the way to releaser, that's just what I witnessed In the field not at my desk..I'd say 24-30% fail rate

[blissville maples]

What's funny is it made great logical sense to me five years ago, I actually argued with someone who said I would not get any more sap with them.....I now agree absolutely positively...But now I've seen them off paper in the field

[DrTimPerkins]

You throw them In the garbage, because as I found the slime snot and boogers builds up on the ball and prohibited it from seating properly eliminate it's check valve capability...

Is this what you're talking about?

16334

[blissville maples]

There it is don't waste your money, an extra 3x the price do do that???

[blissville maples]

But I used the clear ones not the adapter

[blissville maples]

Why do that...... One of these days I'll figure out how to turn autocorrect off

[blissville maples]

And by the way if you cut one off from the drop line and insert it backwards in other words put the part that would be in the tree back into the drop line it puts vacuum on it backwards and you can see it's malfunction

[DrTimPerkins]

There it is don't waste your money, an extra 3x the price do do that???

Except for the fact that what is in the photo is not a CV spout. It is a regular spout. All spouts do that at a certain point. I could show you dozens of photos of spouts from a bunch of manufacturers. At the end of the season they all look like that.

[DrTimPerkins]

And by the way if you cut one off from the drop line and insert it backwards in other words put the part that would be in the tree back into the drop line it puts vacuum on it backwards and you can see it's malfunction

And if you put the wrong end of a screwdriver on the screw it does work either. I guess we should ban all screwdrivers, and wrenches, and why not even sparkplugs....they don't work if you put them in the wrong way either.

[DrTimPerkins]

Why do that...... One of these days I'll figure out how to turn autocorrect off

Along the bottom of each of your posts there is a small grey bar. On the right side there are some commands....one of them is "Edit Post." Or you could learn how to use autocorrect....and maybe punctuation too.

[blissville maples]

Right but sometimes there may be multiple words that fit what is mistyped and the one you want may not be used by autocorrect. Haha screwdriver work when they are used right so Doesn't​ a spark plug..... But when a check valve is used right and then ends up failing- that's no good why ban a spark plug for using it right and having it work.....Who said ban check valves. Your right all spouts clog up, however they cost .17 cents after my discount not .40-.50 and they don't make me think I'm using a valve when it's not a valve after they clog up....Bit can't tell you anything about a check valve, I even showed you some at open house last year and that what u said well they all do...Right and as I said but they all don't cost .40-.50 cents
Man oh man here we go again

[unc23win]

Maybe leader needs to include installation instructions or a warning label with the CV2. I know the original came with instructions. I'm reminded of one other time someone said they didn't work right when they tried to use them as a check valve or something rather than as a spout.

The original post was about cleaning check valves that would be for producers who use them and believe they work to determine if cleaning them is possible and worth the time and effort. The gunk would be a prime example as to why not to attempt to clean them or reuse them (although there are a lot of variables as to the formation of such gunk even in season one)

It is not here we go again it is there YOU go again once again posting on and on about why you are against something rather than butt out of a discussion for those who might be interested in learning about others experiences related to the ORIGINAL topic.

[blissville maples]

Lol ok, just thought u wanted an honest opinion and​ folks were interested in an honest opinion, isn't that what u just said...thats what im doing sir....Some people don't like the truth... sure I'll ignore your posts and let this fool pump you full of whatever you wanna hear...

And Tim didn't you mean doesnt not dont....Looks like you need to check your punctuation too, geez your not perfect are you...And why dont you stop the thread on the sap ladder two guys arguing there, but it doesn't bother you cuz it's not about organic or CVS...I guess if I developed CVS I'd defend them to the death too even if they were junk, lol there it is once again I tell it like it is...
Yup hate me for it

[mspina14]

Ah, actually, I just wanted to know if I can sterilize my CV spouts and use them next year again.....

[GeneralStark]

Blissville - Do you turn your vacuum pump(s) on and off? Or do you let it/them run all the time?

I have found that at the end of the season after the syrup turns buddy, when I finally turn my vac. pump off, and then turn it back on and off as I am pulling spouts, that is when I see the snot that plugs the ball show up. I have had CV spouts in trees since Jan. 12 this season and they are still giving sap on three year old drops and no sign of snot...but I don't turn my vac. pump off unless it freezes solid for several days, and I don't turn it off until it has been below freezing for 12+ hours.

PMRC does not shut their pumps off, so their studies and results (unless I am mistaken) on CV spouts and taphole sanitation practices reflect this practice. Your anecdotal results are only relevant if you keep your pump(s) on all the time. Even then, they are probably still only minimally relevant.

[DrTimPerkins]

sure I'll ignore your posts and let this fool pump you full of whatever you wanna hear...

Ah....name calling again. Let's just count this one as "strike two."

Secondly, don't is the correct word in that case. It is a contraction for do not. "Doesnt" and "dont" are not even words in the English language.

Finally, for anyone who wishes to avail themselves of this little trick, if you click on the name of the poster you'll have the option to view their profile page. On that, one of the commands is "Add to ignore list." This will hide any posts from that particular person.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Just to be clear, I live in South Poultney :lol:

[blissville maples]

And if you put the wrong end of a screwdriver on the screw it does work either. I guess we should ban all screwdrivers, and wrenches, and why not even sparkplugs....they don't work if you put them in the wrong way either.. Here is where you meant doesn't.....But your never wrong Tim I've already established this.....Do no wrong Perkin's.....Strike three I'm out this site is useless since people can't listen and take offense to everything...U know Tim ur likely the only one crying about my posts.....Maybe u should consider if your a true Vermonter, cuz we have thicker skin that that, we aren't like our southern counterparts in Connecticut.....

[blissville maples]

Name calling I said fool your extremely sensitive, do t say foolish things like the spark plug analogy

[blissville maples]

I turn pumps off when freeze, obviously......Oh so keep pumps on eliminate snot, gee leave them on maybe holes won't ever close up ehhh?? Cool now I can sugar in June....Also the trees, unless a no standard year generally stop producing sap as buds unfold.....When your sap turns reddish brown about end of May....I tap many reds and never had buddy syrup....Boiled first dark amber last night and still table grade, I have 500 reds of 2500 taps

[blissville maples]

I will say Tim after I met you last spring at open house you're definitely not the sugarmaker logger type I would expect to see as an expert sugar producer.
.U looked like a professor and it's starting to make me wonder about your liberal philosophy of ignore someone who doesn't agree with you and this complicated way of making everything you say seem brilliant

[blissville maples]

You will always learn more from experience from doing things wrong and then revising your plan don't ever forget that

[GeneralStark]

I turn pumps off when freeze, obviously......Oh so keep pumps on eliminate snot, gee leave them on maybe holes won't ever close up ehhh?? Cool now I can sugar in June....Also the trees, unless a no standard year generally stop producing sap as buds unfold.....When your sap turns reddish brown about end of May....I tap many reds and never had buddy syrup....Boiled first dark amber last night and still table grade, I have 500 reds of 2500 taps

Perhaps you never had buddy syrup because your tapholes dried up...keeping the pumps on won't eliminate snot but will minimize backflow to taphole which is what cause greater snot growth in the tap. Additionally, how do you know the trees are actually freezing/frozen when you shut pumps off?

Seems strange to me that someone would want to participate in a discussion forum when they already have everything figured out....

[maple flats]

blissville maples, this has gone too far, you are just insulting anyone who does not agree with your point. If it continues, this thread will be deleted or closed, even though it contains some valuable info. This forum is not meant for name calling and insults towards any other member! If it continues, it will be stopped from this end.
However, if you simply present your views in a cival way, it can continue.

[blissville maples]

That's perfectly fine I could care less, stop bashing what I say cuz you don't like how things actually are and stop trying to be perfect English authors...Come on man when it's 20 degrees and you can walk across a mud puddle without breaking thru u can be sure the trees are frozen

[blissville maples]

Furthermore not insulting anyone I'm merely putting Tim in his place for trying to slam everything I say with his ridiculous come back..
.Like punctuation look at his typos...But that's ok I'm the idiot he's the big doctor, lol....The truth is he compiles facts, he's not tapping he's not drilling he's not fixing things when they happen, he has guys who do that for him, he sits at a desk and compiles numbers that he's given......Boy I love being honest....Black sheep!!!

[blissville maples]

I am being civil....What bc I said fool...Well don't be foolish.....Am I swearing at anyone? No, am I threatening anyone..No.... Get a life.....I'm getting rather annoyed by all this useless chatter like someone trying to make me look dumb bc of a spelling error....yes that for sure, but I'm dealing with liberals who likely votes for Hillary Clinton so that's to be expected

[blissville maples]

Perhaps you never had buddy syrup because your tapholes dried up...keeping the pumps on won't eliminate snot but will minimize backflow to taphole which is what cause greater snot growth in the tap. Additionally, how do you know the trees are actually freezing/frozen when you shut pumps off?

Seems strange to me that someone would want to participate in a discussion forum when they already have everything figured out....
You guys certainly think you have it figured out.....U go spend thousand to change a no to CV.....I thought people were looking for honest information from people's experience??? Yes/no? Or u just wanna debate with folks like me when u disagree....Who's really dragging it on, I'm simply replying to all your ignorance...And trying to put forth the facts I have discovered and stop the I'll perceive notion of things like organic and CVS....Leave it alone we've all said what we have to say....Respond and I will too

[DrTimPerkins]

I will say Tim after I met you last spring at open house you're definitely not the sugarmaker logger type I would expect to see as an expert sugar producer.

Never said I was an expert sugarmaker or logger. I know some things, and will chime in when I do. I keep quiet when I do not. However I have been sugaring and cutting wood since I was a kid, with a bit of a hiatus for college. I think I have learned a few things at least a few things over the past 55 years. That happens with some folks. Just to be clear though, I readily agree that I don't know everything, I am wrong occasionally, and I do try to admit it when it happens.


.U looked like a professor

Thank you. As it turns out, I am a Professor. :D


...and it's starting to make me wonder about your liberal philosophy of ignore someone who doesn't agree with you...

It has nothing to do with being a liberal. It is more that: 1) there is no point in conducting an online shouting and name calling match, 2) I cannot follow your arguments most of the time, and 3) this forum has rules and other people who probably don't wish to have to read and deal with this type of exchange. I have no problem having a civil debate with someone with different opinions. When it is clear that someone is not willing to even to listen and consider the opinions/thoughts of others, there is no reason to continue the discussion. It becomes merely a waste of time and effort.


...and this complicated way of making everything you say seem brilliant

I appreciate that you think I am brilliant and thank you very much for the compliment. :D

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Hey so did any one try the helium injection this year and how did it go?:lol:

[psparr]

What's that old saying. . . Ignorance is "Bliss"

[sap retreiver]

So is it worth cleaning cv spouts or any other spouts? Whether you have 50 or 5000? I couldn't find an answer in all of this

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

So is it worth cleaning cv spouts or any other spouts? Whether you have 50 or 5000? I couldn't find an answer in all of this
With how the normal sugar maker would sanitize the spouts for next season I don't think it is worth the time. When I was new I used same spouts for like 4 or 5 years not knowing any different. Then I went to a seminar and spouts and sanitation was talked about. That season I went out and bought new taps. What a difference it made for me. I noticed that sap amount year after year was dropping off. Once I sat in on that seminar it made sense. I buy new spouts every year and redo drops every three to four.

[maple maniac65]

With how the normal sugar maker would sanitize the spouts for next season I don't think it is worth the time. When I was new I used same spouts for like 4 or 5 years not knowing any different. Then I went to a seminar and spouts and sanitation was talked about. That season I went out and bought new taps. What a difference it made for me. I noticed that sap amount year after year was dropping off. Once I sat in on that seminar it made sense. I buy new spouts every year and redo drops every three to four.


You see folks even a flatlander can learn something.

[West Mountain Maple]

Blissfulls opinions and experiences are just as valuable as anyone else's. This was blown out of proportion by Dr Tim's misreading or misunderstanding of the statement about plugging them in backwards, obviously they do not work properly backwards, but it shows that the check valve has malfunctioned because it is not closing. Senseless analogies and cracking on punctuation are not valuable information for the forum.
I used check valve for a couple seasons, not on vac, and found a high percentage non functional at end of season, many stuck CLOSED, so blocking sap flow. Do not get so defensive Doc, there is certainly room for improvement in the design.

[blissville maples]

Very well put, multiple facts....Thanks West

[blissville maples]

So is it worth cleaning cv spouts or any other spouts? Whether you have 50 or 5000? I couldn't find an answer in all of thisno it is not worth it, try the replace regular spouts yearly, your bottom line will be better

[DrTimPerkins]

Blissfulls opinions and experiences are just as valuable as anyone else's. This was blown out of proportion by Dr Tim's misreading or misunderstanding of the statement about plugging them in backwards, obviously they do not work properly backwards, but it shows that the check valve has malfunctioned because it is not closing. Senseless analogies and cracking on punctuation are not valuable information for the forum.
I used check valve for a couple seasons, not on vac, and found a high percentage non functional at end of season, many stuck CLOSED, so blocking sap flow. Do not get so defensive Doc, there is certainly room for improvement in the design.

I agree with you. Blissville's opinions are valid and important. If we can dispense with the name calling it would help tremendously. My personal hang-up on punctuation is that I find it hard to understand those points he is trying to make. I'm not trying to suggest he is ignorant, just that I cannot understand someone if I can't interpret what they write.

As far as the analogies I used....I think they are quite valid. A tool is designed to be used a certain way. If you use it in another way then you shouldn't be at all surprised that it doesn't work. Who would ever think to blame a swing-gate check valve if you plumbed it in backwards.....that's your fault. Same thing with the CV spout or adapter. It was designed for one direction and to be inserted in a tree. Can the CV be improved.....I sincerely hope so. Does it work 100% of the time? Absolutely not. Again, not one bit surprising, we're working with a biological response of a complex system (trees and microbes) in combination with a physical system of pipeline and vacuum and releasers, which can be implemented in hundreds of different configurations and combinations. Can it stick closed at the end of the season.....for sure. But typically sap flow is over at that point. Any device can only help so much, and the CV is meant to DELAY the response (and much of that effect happens far earlier in the season than just at the end). Can other approaches come close....yes, if you do everthing else right (new spouts each year, new drops every 3rd year, leave pumps on all the time, use an electric releaser), but even then the CV still comes out a little bit ahead in terms of net profit gain. Don't do everything right and the difference is even bigger.

I agree I can be defensive about this. There were negative ads and complaints about failures of the CV spout system BEFORE a single spout were sold. I have had people who never had seen or use one tell me how bad they worked. I know of dealers who put in a ball bearing in place of the rubber ball and demonstrated to people that the CV didn't work. It's been an interesting time. But then again, I've heard from hundreds of producers who have said it has helped them, so it does balance out I suppose.

As for using them in gravity (not including gravity vacuum....vacuum is vacuum regardless of how it is generated), I have ALWAYS said that: 1) they were designed for vacuum, 2) I have never personally tested them under gravity conditions, 3) ask Steve Childs (Cornell) who has tested them under gravity and 4) given the lower volumes under gravity, the expected benefit would be less and might be a net profit in some years and a loss in others depending upon the circumstances.

Finally, Blissville posted earlier today that he was done posting. I did not see that post until after I had posted or I would not have responded earlier today. I respect that and thank him.

[DrTimPerkins]

no it is not worth it, try the replace regular spouts yearly, your bottom line will be better

Yes, I agree. But if you're not using CV spouts/adapters, then you should plan to replace your drop lines every 3 yrs or so as well.

[GeneralStark]

I think I can speak for many of us when I say thanks Dr. Perkins for all the work you do to advance this industry. I am also very impressed with how you have handled yourself throughout the discussion in this thread and we can all learn something from that. It is easy to blow a candle out to try to make yours appear brighter, but to stay lit and handle it with grace as you have is truly impressive and is one of the things that makes this forum great.

[BAP]

I think I can speak for many of us when I say thanks Dr. Perkins for all the work you do to advance this industry. I am also very impressed with how you have handled yourself throughout the discussion in this thread and we can all learn something from that. It is easy to blow a candle out to try to make yours appear brighter, but to stay lit and handle it with grace as you have is truly impressive and is one of the things that makes this forum great.
Very well said General!

[unc23win]

Yes, I agree. But if you're not using CV spouts/adapters, then you should plan to replace your drop lines every 3 yrs or so as well.

Pulled all my taps today your post (3 years) is pretty spot on lots of drops to replace ☹️. I started noticing more spots in the drops last year and this year even more. I used a combination of smart spouts and the lapierre 130' spout. My opinion (as I'm not experienced in research or have no real data only my observations) is that the weather last season and this season (both had very warm spells 60' plus) did not help prevent gunk formation.

[DrTimPerkins]

My opinion (as I'm not experienced in research or have no real data only my observations) is that the weather last season and this season (both had very warm spells 60' plus) did not help prevent gunk formation.

Yup....gunk happens. The only thing we can do is to use the best sanitation practices possible to delay the formation and proliferation of microbes in the tubing system. Some years it works better than others. Once it gets above about 55 deg F, there isn't a lot that is going to help slow it down.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

You see folks even a flatlander can learn something.
Ohh I have,
1. I live in the right side up State
2. Our Maple syrup tastes better
Hahahahaha