CDL 18x60

[Moose56]

Hey everyone. I am looking at buying a new CDL 18x60 with the drop flue and the 18x18 syrup pan. I am just looking for feedback good bad or ugly. Also seeing how would go about clening the flue pan. Is the some sort of valve in the pan or would you just take the pan off and dump it?
Thank you.
Moose

[Sugarmaker]

Well i have never seen one But I bet its pretty nice. Most of the drop flues have a drain on the bottom oif the flues. Ask them about that. If they don't have one find a supplier that does. Just another nice feature. The fire box on these small rigs are a small. Wood needs to be sized appropriately.
My guess is that will boil about 20 to 25 gallons per hour. So on 2% sap about 1/2 gallon of syrup per hour. How many taps do you have. How much time do you have to boil? Do you plan to expand your operation in the next few years?
What have you boiled on up to this point? How much syrup did you make this year?
Regards,
Chris

[BAP]

How many taps do you have?

[bmbmkr]

I bought my 18x42 drop flue from bascoms. I'm not sure what brand itis, it was in their"scratch & dent" It has 6 drop flues, 1/2in by 5" deep. From what others have described, I believe mine is a CDL. It has the raised edges, which allow a slightly shallower level in the flue pan than the syrup pan. I did not get the 18x18 even though they had a few, I found an 18x30 cross pan from a 2.5' wide evap and turned it 90 to fit on the front of my arch. I had to punch a hole in the syrup pan and add a bulkhead fitting and 2 Sanitary 45's to connect tot he flue pan's 1 1/2 sanitary fitting- no problem. My flue pan does not have a flue drain.I used a piece of 3/16 tubing to siphon the individual flues out when i cleaned in between boils. We had some nasty warm weather down here in SE Ohio, I only ended up boiling 7 times between 6 Feb and 12 March. I dumped out over 1K gal of sap that spoiled before I could boil. I did average about 18 gph on my homemade arch- 2 1/2 55gal drums welded end to end, even with AU my firebox wasn't wide enough, I did not get enough heat. Although I did have a constant boil along the length of the flues, I am going to rebuild the front of the arch and modify my stack base for next year, I have started the steam hoods, and pre heater, along with an RO and a hundred more taps! I thihnk I can et 22-25gph out of her according to the math, we'll see, good luck, hope this little bit of info helps.

[DrewCP]

We just purchased a new CDL 18x48. It has the divided flat pan not drop flue so I can't help on your other questions. I am very very satisfied with the build quality and fit and finish of the arch and pan. I did have issues / questions about insulation thickness and bricking but have that figured out now. Pretty good chance you've already read that post!

Good luck and enjoy!

[BAP]

I don't know how the 18x60 is set up, but I had a 20x66 that I bought used 4 years ago and sold last year. It boiled good but was lacking a couple things that made it hard.
1) there was only a float box on the flue pan and none on the syrup pan. When you started drawing syrup it was slow to let sap in because the sap level had to drop in all the pans before the valve float opened. This led to many uses of the OSB bucket as the sap got to low.
2) the drop flue did not have a drain in it. In order to drain it I had a little hand pump with a small hose on it that I had to pump out each flue one by one. It was time consuming.

[Motoman89]

Hi folks, I just bought an 18x60 from CDL and while I like it compared to my home made oil unit I have some questions that maybe you can answer BAP. I am working out of a lean to and my unit is sitting level side to side and front to back. I did my first boil the other night and all seemed well but we never got the syrup pan to really boil hard. I ran it again tonight after some discussion with the vendor who recommended that I need to slow down my fire as it was being sucked back to quickly. I had sand in the bottom of my unit to within 1.5" of the flues all the way back to the chimney. He recommended that I remove the sand from the chimney to 8-10" towards the front to create turbulance and this would help keep the heat towards the front and then get the syrup pan to boil. Well we emptied the entire unit and made the changes to the sand but still my syrup pan barely boils and only in the first section not in the last section before the draw off valve. Anyone have any suggestions on how to rectify this? I dumped all the partially boiled sap back into the unit so my gradient is all messed up. Before we shut down we did some taste tests and it almost seemed like the "syrup" from the flue pan was the sweetest. Is this normal? is it because I messed up my gradient? I can't seem how to fix the problem unless that entire syrup pan really gets boiling hard correct?
Thanks.

[wnybassman]

In my 18x60 Lapierre it takes quite a bit to get the front section of the front pan to boil with raw sap. As that section becomes more and more concentrated it does boil easier. I recommend leaving the sap alone, leaving the sap levels alone, keeping wood very close to the door (is it a wood arch?) and just keep boiling. As the syrup pan becomes more concentrated you may need to draw off some sap and put that right back in the front section. This will move sap that may be further along on its way to syrup in the middle section to the front section.

[Big_Eddy]

Pretty sure that's the model NTBugtraq has and I recall he had some fun getting the syrup pan to boil when he first got it. You might want to read through his thread to see what worked for him, or invite him here to comment.
http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?23530-The-Gradient-is-not-my-friend

[sap creek]

I have D&G 18x60 I added a dampener in the stack adjusted to hold back heat for front pan . Now I am able to draw off syrup.

[Motoman89]

Ok thanks for the replies everyone. I am going to try a few different things to change the draft/air flow direction as well as use a plug between firings as see if that works any better. Just so we are on the same page here, I do have a wood fired arch, float box, 2 section drop flue and two section syrup pan. When you say to draw off sap and then put it back into the front section do you mean that literally? I don't fully under stand how this will help other than allowing more boiled down sap (syrup) to move up into the first section of the syrup pan. Would my adding back the sap not mix the gradients and then mess things up again, especially if my front pan isn't boiling hard? Do most people have a good boil in both sections of their syrup pans? I barely had any bubbling going on in my very front section.
1628516286

[wnybassman]

Ok thanks for the replies everyone. I am going to try a few different things to change the draft/air flow direction as well as use a plug between firings as see if that works any better. Just so we are on the same page here, I do have a wood fired arch, float box, 2 section drop flue and two section syrup pan. When you say to draw off sap and then put it back into the front section do you mean that literally? I don't fully under stand how this will help other than allowing more boiled down sap (syrup) to move up into the first section of the syrup pan. Would my adding back the sap not mix the gradients and then mess things up again, especially if my front pan isn't boiling hard? Do most people have a good boil in both sections of their syrup pans? I barely had any bubbling going on in my very front section.
1628516286

It's to help establish a better gradient by allowing fresher sap to the entrance of the syrup pan, and keeping the denser stuff near the draw-off. My front pan is a three section though, more mixing may occur in a two section.

How many gallons of sap have to gotten into the system without interruption so far? I bet I have to get 60-75 gallons into it before that front-most section boils consistently. From that point on I have far less trouble. But when I fire, that is always to first section to stop boiling until I close the door again.

[bmbmkr]

But when I fire, that is always to first section to stop boiling until I close the door again.[/QUOTE]


I also moved some sap around to help establish the gradient, I mentioned in another thread I have a piecemeal 18" rig, 18x42 drop flue and an 18x30 syrup pan. I built my arch and ad air under my fire, I never lost boil when firing, it would slow down a little, but come close to stopping, with small wood.

[Motoman89]

I have the same setup bmbmkr, but my entire setup is from CDL. I don't really have a way of forcing air without blowing the fire further back towards the flue pan which would make things worse. I guess if my mods don't work (going to try blocking back of grates and I move both pans back and put my spacer (about 4-5" piece of iron channel) at the very front so that hopefully the fire will more concentrated under my syrup pan. 16287
I will also plug my transfer pipe when firing to try and minimize any syrup moving back to the flue pan. It was suggested that I only stack the wood at the very front of the door and not load it all the way to the back of the fire box. The syrup should be boiling really well in the front pans correct? Like I said mine is barely boiling as this picture shows and the fire is right under the pan all the way at the front. 16288
Could someone post a pic of how their syrup pan is boiling when under firing conditions as well as non firing? Also wondering what people are running underneath their flue pans and to what height? I was told to put sand under it and fill it in until there was about 1" between the flues and the sand. When I talked to my sales guy about the lack of syrup pan boil he said I had to much draft and no turbulance and to remove sand at the very back starting about 8-10" in front of the stack. Is this right? Should I take out the sand and run Roxul or ceramic blanket instead? Do I run it all the way to the back of the arch/chimney? I originally had the sand even all the way to the back. Another manufacturer recommended making two deep ridges to create turbulance. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

[Super Sapper]

It sounds like you have too much space under your flu pan. It should be within 1/4 to 1/2 inch of the bottom of the flu's all the way back to force the heat into the flu's. Right now you are sucking your heat out under the flu pan and up the chimney.

[Motoman89]

Wow ok I guess I will get some more sand. That would also restrict some of the air flow and create more back pressure resulting in keeping the heat/fire more to the front would it not? I am thinking less room for the fire to be sucked backwards as there is more restriction.

[Super Sapper]

Wow ok I guess I will get some more sand. That would also restrict some of the air flow and create more back pressure resulting in keeping the heat/fire more to the front would it not? I am thinking less room for the fire to be sucked backwards as there is more restriction.

You are correct.

[Sugarmaker]

Motoman89,
Here is a shot of my front pan.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee170/Sugarmaker/Maple%20related%20pictures/Maple%20_sugarhouse%20and%20Addi_Marley/DSC03719.jpg

Another angle:
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee170/Sugarmaker/Maple%20related%20pictures/Maple%20_sugarhouse%20and%20Addi_Marley/DSC03710.jpg

Found another front pan picture: these are my old pans.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee170/Sugarmaker/making%20syrup%20Feb-2013/CIMG2683.jpg

I have about 1/2 inch between the sand and the drop flues. And Yes keep moving wood around and firing techniques to get a good boil in the front pan also.
Regards,
Chris

[Ontario Ian]

to much draft if you can't boil the front of your pan, rule of thumb is twice the length of chimney for the length of evaporator. 5' arch should have a 10' chimney. I know cdl is putting a damper in some of them.

[YAZER]

Small wood, wrist size, my 18x60 lapierre boils great ... 16" to 20" long put in just at the door... using a small duct booster fan ducted into the draft door... the problem I have is my front float constantly leaks sap into the syrup pan, Changed orings, no change..