New 2x8 raised flue on Leader oil fired arch

[heus]

Lets try this again:)
Last spring I sold my 30x10 A&A raised flue with an airtight wood burning arch. It served me well for 4 or 5 years. I was looking to get a bigger ro, but downsize my evaporator. I sold my Deer Run 375 RO and purchased a D&G 600 used in New York. I then purchased a new Leader oil fired arch and Carlin 301 burner from Karl Evans at May Hill Maple in Orwell, Ohio. The new pans are a raised flue 3/5 setup from Smoky Lake. I got the steam hood, preheater, and same side reverse as well as an extra syrup pan. I was persuaded to go with a 3 foot flue pan, instead of a 2 foot, due to the fact that I would be boiling concentrate. I have about 1000 taps on 24-25" of vac. I never boiled more than a few hours this season. Basically I would run my ro and recirculate back into the main storage tank until the output measured around 10-11%. I would then send it to my head tank and start boiling. At this rate the RO was usually at 2 gallons of concentrate per minute (120 gph) according to the flow meter. The RO would just stay ahead of the evaporator throughout the boil. When the ro stopped I usually had about 30-45 more minutes of boiling. Im not even going to touch the evaporation rate subject again. However, counting syrup drawn off, I would estimate that I am "processing" anywhere from 75-90 gallons of sap per hour. I went with the smallest recommended oil nozzle (4 gph). Could I get more evaporation with a bigger nozzle or by adjusting the pressure? Maybe, I dont know. The oil arch has performed flawlessly all season. I set the air according to the chart in the Carlin manual. That's all I had to do. The stack temps stay constant throughout the boil (around 760-765 degrees), without a barometric damper. Leader normally recommends a Carlin 101 birner with a 2x8, but they recommended I use the 301 with my setup. I was also impressed that Leader wanted to know the exact dimensions of my SL pans. These pans are slightly larger in footprint than Leader's pans (according to the Leader tech that I spoke to), so they custom made my arch slightly wider at no extra charge. I also purchased the insulated burner cover that cuts down on a lot of the noise.
As far as my pans go, they are very high quality. I originally owned a Patrick Phaneuf 2x6 raised flue that he personally delivered to me in December, 2009. I would say the quality of the welds, and the fit and finish are identical to Patrick's pans.
I also purchased the Great Lakes Guardian auto draw. It has worked great as well, although it tends to gum up with niter about halfway through a boil which prevents the valve from opening. I bought some tri clover adapters to quickly take it off and clean it without shutting down.
Overall I am happy with my purchases.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

Thanks Heus. I spoke to Leader yesterday about their arches. The rep explained that the reverse-fired arch (which is about 2 times as much money) is much better. He said front fired arches have problems with uneven heating in the syrup pan. Basically, because of the shape of the flame, you get syrup in the center channels before the out channels. This is why they don't make that many front-fired arches anymore, but it's hard to get around the thousands of dollars saved by going with the front-fired design.

So what was your thought on how the syrup pan boiled with the front-fired arch? You say it performed flawlessly, so I'm guessing it's not really an issue?

It looks like a Carlin 102 is perfect with a 2x6 and a 6" stack diameter is recommended per Leader's document https://www.leaderevaporator.com/pdf_files/leader-insulated-oil-arch.pdf

Glad you love your new setup. I would probably lean toward Smoky Lake pans as well.

[heus]

Thanks Heus. I spoke to Leader yesterday about their arches. The rep explained that the reverse-fired arch (which is about 2 times as much money) is much better. He said front fired arches have problems with uneven heating in the syrup pan. Basically, because of the shape of the flame, you get syrup in the center channels before the out channels. This is why they don't make that many front-fired arches anymore, but it's hard to get around the thousands of dollars saved by going with the front-fired design.

So what was your thought on how the syrup pan boiled with the front-fired arch? You say it performed flawlessly, so I'm guessing it's not really an issue?

It looks like a Carlin 102 is perfect with a 2x6 and a 6" stack diameter is recommended per Leader's document https://www.leaderevaporator.com/pdf_files/leader-insulated-oil-arch.pdf

Glad you love your new setup. I would probably lean toward Smoky Lake pans as well.

I see what you mean about uneven boiling in the syrup pan. Its not a huge issue, but the back two channels definitely boil a little harder than the front 4 (my syrup pan is cross flow and has 6 sections). This is about where I suspect the ball of flames hits the pan. Dont get me wrong, the entire syrup pan boils, but its more intense in the back two sections. Because these two channels boil so hard, I hesitate to add a larger size nozzle. Maybe I could go with a different pattern. My nozzle is a 60 degree "B". I probably should experiment with water prior to next season.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

I see what you mean about uneven boiling in the syrup pan. Its not a huge issue, but the back two channels definitely boil a little harder than the front 4 (my syrup pan is cross flow and has 6 sections). This is about where I suspect the ball of flames hits the pan. Dont get me wrong, the entire syrup pan boils, but its more intense in the back two sections. Because these two channels boil so hard, I hesitate to add a larger size nozzle. Maybe I could go with a different pattern. My nozzle is a 60 degree "B". I probably should experiment with water prior to next season.

Gotcha. Forgot you had cross-flow.

[wiam]

On my homemade oil fired I had poor boiling in front part of front pan. I put in a bigger nozzle and lowered the oil pressure. This gave me the same oil gph with shorter flame and front boiled better. I think I am going to move my gun underneath.

[bowtie]

what is your gallons of oil/syrup ratio approximately ? how much is a gallon of heating oil even going for today?

[mspina14]

Hi.

don't know much about oil-fired rigs, but I try to learn as much as I can about new things.

What is that curved piece of stainless steel sheet metal the protrudes from the front of the rig?

Never seen that before on an arch.

thanks

Mark

[BAP]

It is probably the insulated burner cover that he mentioned.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

how much is a gallon of heating oil even going for today?

Looks like $2.846 per gallon in western NY right now. On the expensive side versus the rest of the state. Definitely need RO if you burning oil, in my opinion.

[Sugarmaker]

Jason,
Sure is a nice looking set up! You did good! So how much syrup did you make? per tap?
Regards,
Chris

[heus]

what is your gallons of oil/syrup ratio approximately ? how much is a gallon of heating oil even going for today?
I paid around 1.85 plus tax for #2 diesel two weeks ago. That is picked up at the feed mill.

[heus]

Jason,
Sure is a nice looking set up! You did good! So how much syrup did you make? per tap?
Regards,
Chris
Chris, I am at 240 gallons plus what is in the evaporator waiting for the warmup next week. Hope to get one more run. As you know, its been a tough season. Sugar content has been terrible. Most of my sap has been 80:1 or more.

[David in MI]

That is an awfully nice looking rig. I have a similar setup to yours: 2x8 Smoky Lake raised flue, flue and steam hoods (although my steam hood has a separate stack) sitting atop a Leader traditional wood-fired arch. I'm getting around 50-60 gph pretty consistently and my flue pan is a foot longer at 6' where I believe you have indicated that yours is a 5' pan. No preheater in mine.

heus-I tried sending you a pm but your inbox is full.

[heus]

David I cleared some PMs out

[johnallin]

Heus,

The consistency and convenience of oil is sure tempting, but I still kind of look forward to the sawing, splitting, stacking and stoking of wood. (no you don't john)
I also keep telling myself that at 63; the exercise is good for me. We cut everything right on the property, so other than fuel and time, it's not a notable expense.

What made you change over with this rig and would you even consider going back to wood?
Oh, and thanks for taking the time to bringing this thread back.

[heus]

John I switched to oil for a couple of reasons. We heat our house with wood. I just got sick of cutting it. After I ordered it, we just so happened to sell our house and purchase the property next to my sugarhouse (both properties have been in the family for generations). This new house has propane heat, so now no wood burning at all, except for in the shop. Secondly, it was a way to make it a little easier on my dad. He often did the firing, which every 3-5 minutes got to be hard on him. Thirdly, Karl Evans, my dealer, talked me into it. No I will never go back to wood, even though I have a lifetime supply of it. Its so nice to simply flip a switch to turn on, and then shut down at the end of the night. With the bigger ro that I now have, I am under one gallon of oil per gallon of syrup. This was one of those purchases, like an ro, auto draw, or a filter press where you say why didn't I get this sooner?

[maple flats]

heus, glad to see this post again, may it be here to stay.

[heus]

Thanks Dave.
One of the reasons I did not have a stack put on my steam hood is because I like to remove it when cleaning or swapping the syrup pan. My last evaporator had a separate stack in the syrup pan and it didnt help evacuate the steam much anyways. The flue pan has a series of holes in the front like in the pic below.

[bowtie]

curious as to what gph you got from your 3x10 A and A.

[heus]

It was a 30"x10. I would say very similar to the 2x8. On an oil fired arch I think it would have been much higher.

[Clinkis]

interesting info. I currently have a propane evaporator which I have outgrown and plan on upgrading next year. So if I'm reading this correctly you are saying an oil fired arch will run hotter then a wood arch?

[Sugarmaker]

The new owner of the A&A 30" x 10' is lurking on here!:) Maybe he will get on and comment on the rig?
Jason,
That is a pile of syrup! Sounds like it was a good season for you! You got everything you could from the trees, considering the weather we had!
Regards,
Chris

[maple flats]

On my hoods (attached to each other, but 2 units) I have a 15" stack on the 3x5 flue hood portion with a 13" suspended from in the cupola and extending down into the 15" about a foot. I have a winch that raises t he hood assembly and at that time the 15" just telescopes around the 13" one and I can raise it about 2'. On my 3x3 hood portion over the syrup pan, it is about 16-18" above the syrup pan and it also has a 15" stack, but then it is offset to go between the joists and then only extends up 2' which leaves it about 5' below the cupola doors. I plan to also suspend a 13" stack from in the cupola for that too, but have not yet. The rear hood stack only loses a slight amount of steam at the opening where the 13" goes inside the 15", maybe 2-4%. However the front pan not as well. Before next season I'm going to suspend a 13" from above to see how much it helps, but with the open space below that hood I likely lose maybe 35-40% on the worst days. That one seems to vary depending on the weather and humidity outside, high pressure days are better than low foggy weather.

[johnallin]

Similar to the holes heus has on his syrup hood; I cut an 8" x 5" rectangular hole in both syrup and flue pan hoods where they meet up.
I have enough draw on the flue steam hood that it pulls steam up and out of the syrup hood pretty nicely.

[Sugarmaker]

Jason,
Getting good draw on a elevated hood just doesn't seem to work well. I gave Jim at Smoky Lake the concept for a hood that will draw 90% of the steam from the front pan. I even built one for the neighbor and it allows him to see what is going on in the syrup channels much better too. Just can't get anybody real interested in building / adding it.
Of course its a custom build for each rig. But so is everything else on these rigs.
I boiled with fuel oil for several years at my Dad's old sugarhouse on the antique Warren rig conversted to oil. It was very nice to hit the switch to start and stop!

[heus]

Thanks Chris.

[heus]

Here's another picture of my setup. Finish tank was made by A&A and the smaller canner on the right was made by Wegner Metal Works.

[Urban Sugarmaker]

How much syrup do you get splashing on the sides? Do the sides get hot enough to burn it on?

[RileySugarbush]

We have a new drop flue 2x8 from smokey lake. I just had Jim leave the syrup hood off. The vapor goes up and out the cupola just fine and I like the good view of the pan. Plus it is more impressive for our many visitors with the steam rising. Plus Plus it is one more good indicator for firing.

I would be interested in how you made a syrup pan hood work well though, Chris.

[wiam]

Here's another picture of my setup. Finish tank was made by A&A and the smaller canner on the right was made by Wegner Metal Works.

Love the new shiny.

[BAP]

Very nice looking rig. Glad it is working out for you.

[heus]

Here is a pic of the oil burner during installation.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chris

I have no issue getting about 100% of the steam drawn off the front pan with elevated hood on my CDL 3x10 oil fired deluxe.


Jason,
Getting good draw on a elevated hood just doesn't seem to work well. I gave Jim at Smoky Lake the concept for a hood that will draw 90% of the steam from the front pan. I even built one for the neighbor and it allows him to see what is going on in the syrup channels much better too. Just can't get anybody real interested in building / adding it.
Of course its a custom build for each rig. But so is everything else on these rigs.
I boiled with fuel oil for several years at my Dad's old sugarhouse on the antique Warren rig conversted to oil. It was very nice to hit the switch to start and stop!

[heus]

Brandon can we see a pic of what your steam hood looks like?

[heus]

Just want to revisit my old post. I no longer have the fuel oil arch. I sold it to a fellow member. Anyways, I purchased the Silverplate wood burning arch that was meant for these pans in the first place. Once going full bore, it is getting 90 gph. (This includes syrup drawn off too.) I know this to be true because I set my ro concentrate at 1.5gph and it stays even with the evaporator throughout the boil. I am burning pretty thick pieces of hardwood also. I am sure I could have boiled at a higher gph with the fuel oil arch as well, if I would have stepped up to a larger nozzle.

[bowtie]

I am looking forward to boiling on my sl silverplate 30"x10 ,not going to happen this year. Good to hear your boil rates, I hope to achieve 120ish gph, but have heard upwards of 150 on the same rig. The evap looks so good I almost don't want to "dirty it up". I will looking for more taps to lease next year and may be in the market for a used ro next year.
How do u like your auto draw off , that is the one thing I didn't purchase yet, but will most likely go with a sl?
Good to see u are still boiling even though u downsized in the past.
I am still jealous of all u Ohioans, would love to get my wife and kids to ok the move but as they say , "ain't gonna happen".
Ps what r u going to use next year as I see your rig for sale .

[heus]

Bowtie my auto draw performs flawlessly. It has changed my operation for the better. Yes my rig is for sale but I'm just toying with the idea of going the sap only route and upping my tap count up to 1100-1200. I almost went this route last year but decided to keep making syrup.