Can defoamer lose it's effectiveness with age?

[Bruce L]

I purchased a gallon jug of Atmos 300 several years ago,keep it in the freezer until I need to refill the smaller squirt bottle,then thaw it out,shake the bottle and refill.Now with the steam away it calls for 4 drops into the steam away every fire,and 3 drops into the flue pan at the same time. I have increased to 8 drops each place each fire,yet the syrup pan still continually is boiling over the dividers and mixing,so I end up with a large batch of about 6 gallons,starting off at say 219.1 ,spiking to 220.2 before coming back down. The syrup pan is that much richer now with the steam away concentrating the sap somewhat.I am leary of adding defoamer to the syrup pan unless absolutely necessary,and worrying about increasing so much that the flavour may come through on the syrup. From reading earlier posts am considering trying safflower oil instead.

[DrTimPerkins]

Not sure whether Atmos will lose its defoaming efficacy over time (especially being stored frozen), however you will find that organic oils, including safflower oil, are FAR less effective at cutting foam than Atmos. That is one of the issues with organic certification....none of the organic oils are particularly effective. To achieve proper defoaming, an excess amount of organic oil sometimes must be used, which causes a slight-moderate-strong oil flavor depending upon the time of season. At the end of the season, we often will decertify and finish the last day or two non-organic.

I'd just buy a new, smaller bottle of Atmos.

[Russell Lampron]

To expand on Dr. Tim's reply. Buy a small bottle of the Atmos and compare the results to what you are using. Then you'll know if your defoamer is still good or not.

[abbott]

Not sure whether Atmos will lose its defoaming efficacy over time (especially being stored frozen), however you will find that organic oils, including safflower oil, are FAR less effective at cutting foam than Atmos. That is one of the issues with organic certification....none of the organic oils are particularly effective. To achieve proper defoaming, an excess amount of organic oil sometimes must be used, which causes a slight-moderate-strong oil flavor depending upon the time of season. At the end of the season, we often will decertify and finish the last day or two non-organic.

I'd just buy a new, smaller bottle of Atmos.

I'm surprised to hear you think that about organic oils. I use less than 8 oz. of organic canola oil to make 400 gallons of syrup in a season. Never had a hint of flavor show up in the product. Now I don't know how much Atmos I would need, but I don't feel like I'm using an excessive amount of oil.

[DrTimPerkins]

I use less than 8 oz. of organic canola oil to make 400 gallons of syrup in a season.

You will have to share your secrets then. It's pretty well recognized that organic defoamers are not as effective as synthetic defoamers. Probably the #1 comment we hear about processing issues from organic producers.

Are you using air injection?

[abbott]

You will have to share your secrets then. It's pretty well recognized that organic defoamers are not as effective as synthetic defoamers. Probably the #1 comment we hear about processing issues from organic producers.

Are you using air injection?

I'm using a standard wood fired arch, not airtight. It's 40" x 10'. No RO, no preheater, no blower, no air injection in the sap. Getting 80-90 gph depending on wood quality. I know other producers boil faster on smaller rigs, so maybe it has to do with the relatively low boil rate? I defoam as needed to keep the foam to a minimum in the back pan (but not necessarily no foam) and keep in a few inches down the divider in the front pan. I typically boil my sap promptly - that's got to help.

I've used less than 2 oz of defoamer to make 150 gallons of syrup so far, but the usage goes up late in the year. Honestly, I'd gladly use more defoamer if it meant a faster boil rate. Would also be very interested if anyone has done a comparison to get some real data on what defoamers are more effective and what the usage rates are.

Bruce L - I would say its a pretty cheap experiment to try canola or safflower oil... if you don't like it just use it at your house. But I also think that just a few drops of defoamer in the syrup pan (there was another thread recently that said near the draw-off is best) as necessary between draw-offs will help a lot. This time of year I'm using about 2 drops of oil in the syrup pan over the course of 40 min. bet. draws. That will likely be 6-8 drops at the very end of the season.

[DrTimPerkins]

That's it then....low boil compared to rapid boil. Most producers want to boil as hard as they can to increase evaporation rate.

As for placement....backpan good....front (syrup) pan should only be near the drawoff box and only sparingly.

[Bruce L]

My wife got a bottle of safflower oil,will give it a try next boil,maybe in the syrup pan alone if it doesn't make the flue pan behave. Not sure if mixing the two oils is a good idea,will check and taste the syrup

[Bucket Head]

What is the Atmos made from? It's considered synthetic?

Steve

[maple flats]

The MSDS is available online thru Atmos