Heating trees through a cold snap...

[IWDaddo]

Not sure if this is the right part of MapleTrader for this one... And, this may be an ill-thought-out plan... but...

Our farm is in Columbia County, NY, right in the Berkshires and Taconics. My daughter and I have been tapping our trees for 3 years now, but the kicker is that we have to be in Los Angeles most of the year (her for school, my wife and I for work). This year, we can only come back for five days starting this Thursday (3/9/17) and the forecast looks like this:

WED: HI 59º LOW 31º
THU: HI 43º LOW 23º
FRI: HI 33º LOW 7º
SAT: HI 20º LOW 6º
SUN: HI 28º LOW 8º

Obviously, if we could get there on Wednesday, we'd might get 2 days of at least SOMETHING. But as it stands, it looks like Thursday is just about the only day with decent chances of sap running. UNLESS... I try something. I have about 5-6 outdoor propane tank heaters, the kind that screw on top of a normal 20-pound gas cylinder. I also have some thick silver poly tarps. If I were to wrap the tarp around the tree about 12 feet high and flare it out to the ground, creating a sort of "teepee" with the gas cylinder heating within, I could essentially "warm up" 5 or 6 of my huge maples, at least the bottom 12 feet of them (and the ground close by).

I've had to do something similar with fruit trees in years past, and I can lock both cylinder and tarps down, even in high winds, so I know - and heed - all the warnings not to burn everything to the ground. But my question is this: if I were to keep things around the tree warm starting Thursday night, is there a chance I can eke out another tapping day on Friday? I had read that sap flows upwards due to the pressure changes caused by temperature, and if I can possibly "trick" some of our trees, even for a few hours, I can make my little girl very, very happy.

I don't pretend I can do anything about 7-degree weather. But if I can buy a few more hours on this very short trip, this trip will be a success. Thoughts?

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

I think you should try it and give us a report on how it worked. Pictures would be good also

[Cedar Eater]

It seems kind of extreme, but the circumstances make that understandable. It might work. I would really like to hear from Dr. Tim on this one.

[FDA]

Do you have a tire store nearby? Maybe you could get some scrap tires and lay them in a circle around the drip line of the tree and set the on fire to warm the tree up.

[bigschuss]

Pretty sure FDA's idea was just sarcasm? But seeing some of the crazy posts this year (like the guy who wanted to kill the sap suckers on his land) I'm not sure.

My 2 cents....making maple syrup is time and labor intensive as it is. To go through all trouble for what, IMHO, has almost no chance of affecting sap slow, is just something that would be a waste if time.

[stoweski]

Do you have a tire store nearby? Maybe you could get some scrap tires and lay them in a circle around the drip line of the tree and set the on fire to warm the tree up.

Sounds like something Red Green would do.

[barnbc76]

We just had a day down to 10 degrees here, then warm up to 55 the other day. I thought I would have lots of SAP when I got home, my big trees only just started to flow after 8hrs of 50 degree weather. I don't know how effective a propane heater could be, I guess I doubt it would be very effective in that cold of weather.

I would consider buying SAP from someone first.

[Russell Lampron]

When sap lows on gravity it runs down the tree. Unless the sun was hot enough to thaw the branches heating the trunks would be a waste of time. If this weekend is a carbon copy of last weekend I don't think it will work.

[Galena]

LOL the number of times I've been tempted to go out and wrap my trees in giant blankies in the vain hope of that warming them up enough to get the sap going....but nope. If you have the $$$ to buy crazy amounts of propane and just maybe get a teeny bit of sap, well have fun burning your money.

And needless to say FDA's suggestion to set tire fires is not only incredibly f***in stupid, but also very dangerous and probably highly illegal, especially in a residential area. I sincerely hope like H*** that he was just joking. Burning tires give off black noxious smoke, you would be busted and probably fined up the yinyang for polluting the environment. Either buy sap, or spare your poor trees and just don't tap at all.

[n8hutch]

Maybe you could take a Day trip Wednesday to a few Sugar houses , Soak it all in sample some things and relax. What you are contemplating doing seems kind of like alot of trouble for very little return. So if it would me I'd try and find something else fun to do that I wouldn't necessarily have time for because on a normal ideal year I'd be boiling sap.

[motowbrowne]

Maybe you could take a Day trip Wednesday to a few Sugar houses , Soak it all in sample some things and relax. What you are contemplating doing seems kind of like alot of trouble for very little return. So if it would me I'd try and find something else fun to do that I wouldn't necessarily have time for because on a normal ideal year I'd be boiling sap.

I think this is a great idea. Try to find a couple smallish producers where you still get to see sap and a fire and drop in for a visit.

[DrTimPerkins]

When sap lows on gravity it runs down the tree. Unless the sun was hot enough to thaw the branches heating the trunks would be a waste of time. If this weekend is a carbon copy of last weekend I don't think it will work.

Correct answer. You may get a little dribble of sap, but probably not a lot. You are likely to spend a lot of money in propane cost with relatively little to show for it.

[IWDaddo]

I have three huge sugar maples, 25 ft apart, all the same size. I think I'll make one of them a control, one will get a little heat, the third will get more. First day all three will be unheated to get a baseline, then the next day I'll try the experiment, so we'll see if there are any big differences!

[Sugarmaker]

Wait I have to go unplug the electric blankets on my trees.
The seem to work for us!
Regards,
Chris

[FDA]

So are you going to use old tire on tree three? If you don't have access to old tires furniture will make a good hot fire too. Drive around the night before trash day and grab a couple couches.

[IWDaddo]

Okay, okay, sarcasm is easy when you've got all winter to wait for the weather to cooperate. I'm willing to think a little outside the box given the constraints. Lots of ideas are stupid, but not trying anything is antithetical to my person!

[John c]

If you do indeed try this make sure to use a thermometer on each trunk so you can report your findings.
I have my doubts it will work, but at the same time I remain optimistic.

[bigschuss]

Okay, okay, sarcasm is easy when you've got all winter to wait for the weather to cooperate. I'm willing to think a little outside the box given the constraints. Lots of ideas are stupid, but not trying anything is antithetical to my person!

I don't think you're hurting anybody by trying. It's your time and energy. However, to try to turn this into an experiment with a baseline and a control group though I think is a bit of a stretch, no? You've got a sample size of 3. I have trees the same size 20 feet apart that NEVER do the same as all the others.

Given the seemingly random nature of sap flow from day to day, and from tree to tree, I'm not exactly sure what "findings" there will be to report. There are too many variables to control. I think any perceived variation in sap flow you see in your trees that are warmed will be no more significantly different than if those results were due to random chance.

[Galena]

Don't bother replying to this thread, peeps. He's determined to go burn himself a bunch of money, possibly destroy his trees,and burn down his neighbourhood. So let him. I'm sure the results will soon turn up on CNN and FoxNews.

[Atgreene]

No. Just no.

[DrTimPerkins]

I'm willing to think a little outside the box given the constraints. Lots of ideas are stupid, but not trying anything is antithetical to my person!

Thinking outside the box is great. Putting your head in a box and lighting it on fire is not. Put half as much energy into thinking of something else that would be fun to do and you'd be far better off.

[Galena]

Thinking outside the box is great. Putting your head in a box and lighting it on fire is not. Put half as much energy into thinking of something else that would be fun to do and you'd be far better off.

Listen to an international authority on the subject. And you even refer to it yourself, in your very first post here, that it might be an ill-thought out plan. And guess what, it is!!!!! And it takes the cake for stupidest, greediest, most selfish, and disrespectful and ill-conceived plan for getting sap that I've ever heard of.

Guess what, all of us had to all wait all winter for conditons to be right for our trees to produce. Oh and btw you say this technique works for fruit trees? Well uhm if your maples are as big as you say they are, they are miles bigger than any fruit tree...and they are not f**kin fruit trees, or have you not noticed?! You're clearly a dumbass city person with no knowledge, and even worse, no respect at all for your trees or the rhythms and flow of nature and life in the country. Go ahead and fill that vacancy for village idiot.

You are about to do something staggeringly stupid, and all for the sake of not letting down your little princess. Really? Maybe it's time she learned that she can't always get things her way. And nor can you. Bet anything that, should she start jonesing for a glass of milk and you're miles away from any store, but there happens to be a cow or two standing in a pasture, that you would pull over, jump out with a container in hand, and start hauling away on their teats. Or what you thought were teats. Guess you'll have plenty of time to think that over while recovering in hospital from getting your head half kicked off your shoulders.

Ever considered doing something that actually makes sense, like hiring someone local to tap your trees for you, sans stupidass plan, and collect and freeze the sap when the trees are ready to give it to you? Then you can come home and make syrup at your leisure, or have them make it into syrup for you and ship it to you in Sparklefart Land. No probably not, that would make far too much sense.

[berkshires]

<a darn fine rant followed by> Last edited by Galena; Today at 04:26 PM

Wow, I want to see what you wrote before the edit. LOL I bet it was strong enough to send one of those not-a-cows running for the barn!

GO

[Galena]

Wow, I want to see what you wrote before the edit. LOL I bet it was strong enough to send one of those not-a-cows running for the barn!

GO

Let's just say that my keyboard's still smoking. I take care of my trees and treat them and their sap with respect. So when some greedy a-hole starts spewing about how he's gonna carry out this asinine plan, against all advice, all just for his preshus l'il darlin so she won't be all sad...makes me see Canadian red. You think it's any coincidence that the maple leaf on our flag is the colour of arterial blood?

Furthermore, speaking of his daughter....look at the example he's setting for her in doing this. He'd not showing how much he cares for her. He's showing her that it's OK to be selfish and greedy do whatever the hell stupid and dangerous thing you want for some short-term jollies, and not think about the future and the possible consequences of your actions. Maybe next year he won't have any trees to tap cause he'll have burnt them down.

[psparr]

Just buy a gallon of syrup, and 40 jugs of water and mix. Then boil until 40 gallons of water are removed.
You've made your syrup!

[mike103]

As you state in your post, you dont have much time to play with. And the fact that Sugaring is probably the most labor intensive and weather dependent winter time Hobby you can possibly do.... That said, there are a few well meaning posts above, such as visiting a nearby Sugar House and purchasing syrup or sap . Trying to cheat mother nature is probably not going to work, and running small propane tanks for any length of time in sub freezing weather will shut heaters down after an hour or two do to pg evaporating poorly. But they are however your (trees) and best of luck with your choice....

[ennismaple]

The teaching moment here should be that as farmers we take what Mother Nature gives us. We have some control (irrigation, tile drainage) but by and large we are at her mercy. Boiling sap into syrup is only a part of the complete experience.

[FDA]

Let's just say that my keyboard's still smoking. I take care of my trees and treat them and their sap with respect. So when some greedy a-hole starts spewing about how he's gonna carry out this

Respect eh? You signature says 17 taps in 6 tree's.................... Just saying...............

[NTBugtraq]

And here I am thinking that sap flows as a result of changes in barometric pressure. While temperature changes are the driving force in changing barometric pressure, it is not a matter of isolated temperature changes (e.g. the type you would create by using propane heat), but instead a broader area of pressure change. You are trying to affect the tree from head to toe (tip of branch to tip of root)...I laugh out loud thinking you think you can do that with a propane torch...no matter how big it is.

Propane torches may work in California as a way of preventing frost from forming on above ground produce...but trying to get tree roots, buried 5-10' underground to release sap into tree trunks likely 60+ feet tall is hilarious.

[tcross]

this thread is great... :lol:

[Austin351]

Let's just say that my keyboard's still smoking. I take care of my trees and treat them and their sap with respect. So when some greedy a-hole starts spewing about how he's gonna carry out this asinine plan, against all advice, all just for his preshus l'il darlin so she won't be all sad...makes me see Canadian red. You think it's any coincidence that the maple leaf on our flag is the colour of arterial blood?

Furthermore, speaking of his daughter....look at the example he's setting for her in doing this. He'd not showing how much he cares for her. He's showing her that it's OK to be selfish and greedy do whatever the hell stupid and dangerous thing you want for some short-term jollies, and not think about the future and the possible consequences of your actions. Maybe next year he won't have any trees to tap cause he'll have burnt them down.

Who cares what someone else wants to try with THEIR trees??? And as far as what he is teaching his daughter, it is called perseverance, which is something that generation will severely need.

And I always thought the color of the leaf on the Canadian flag was because of the fall color... I learn something new every day.

[n8hutch]

I must say I think/Hope that the OP has/had good intentions when he started this thread. Some folks could probably try to be pleasant and less aggressive in their point of view. While I think it's not the best use of time and there is probably a few safety concerns this is a Free Country and these fine folks are free to do as they wish without name calling or insults. Let's stay on the High road.

[Galena]

Respect eh? You signature says 17 taps in 6 tree's.................... Just saying...............

Yeah, and the 5 of my trees that have 3 taps each are huge, mature 60ft sugar maples who would have been porcupined to death in the old days. The 6th one has only 2. And how about you, FDA? How many taps on how many trees?

And yes, I formally apologize for name calling etc. But I have seen far too many people like IWDaddo and am fed up to the back teeth and then some with them and their 'I'm gonna run over everyone and everything in my way to get what I want no matter what' attitudes towards life. I sincerely hope he's decided that it is an exercise in futility and has put a stop to his plans.

[DrTimPerkins]

When someone posts asking for advice, and all responders basically say "that is not a good idea", but the poster says "I'm going to ignore all of you and do what I want anyhow", then I can't feel really sorry for them when they get some grief. If they weren't going to even consider modifying their plans based upon what was offered, then why ask the question in the first place except to get validation.

[DrTimPerkins]

Just buy a gallon of syrup, and 40 jugs of water and mix. Then boil until 40 gallons of water are removed.
You've made your syrup!

If the intention was simply to boil to spend time with the kids, then this would be a very suitable and logical approach.

[Galena]

When someone posts asking for advice, and all responders basically say "that is not a good idea", but the poster says "I'm going to ignore all of you and do what I want anyhow", then I can't feel really sorry for them when they get some grief. If they weren't going to even consider modifying their plans based upon what was offered, then why ask the question in the first place except to get validation.

Thank you Dr Tim. *fistbump*

[KV Sappers]

Let's just say that my keyboard's still smoking. I take care of my trees and treat them and their sap with respect. So when some greedy a-hole starts spewing about how he's gonna carry out this asinine plan, against all advice, all just for his preshus l'il darlin so she won't be all sad...makes me see Canadian red. You think it's any coincidence that the maple leaf on our flag is the colour of arterial blood?

Furthermore, speaking of his daughter....look at the example he's setting for her in doing this. He'd not showing how much he cares for her. He's showing her that it's OK to be selfish and greedy do whatever the hell stupid and dangerous thing you want for some short-term jollies, and not think about the future and the possible consequences of your actions. Maybe next year he won't have any trees to tap cause he'll have burnt them down.
Bravo, Galena. I too am fed up with people who have no respect for Mother Earth. When are people going to realize once the forest and trees are gone life stops. Thank you for your candidness.

[mapledavefarm]

Wow! This is a great thread! :o

[Galena]

Bravo, Galena. I too am fed up with people who have no respect for Mother Earth. When are people going to realize once the forest and trees are gone life stops. Thank you for your candidness.

Thank you, KV, for realizing where I was going with my rants! It takes an awful lot to get me that p.o.'d about something, but when I do, watch out. Even Dr Tim was telling the OP, in as civil a manner as possible, that his idea sucked balls. But nooo, he won't listen....that would be antiethical!! ;-)

[psparr]

I don't want to start a peeing match, but they are his trees, and his choice.
Yes it is your right to rant as well, but that doesn't mean that you are right, nor does it mean he is right. Thank God we have the freedom to still make our own choices.

[JeffB]

WOW
With great fear and backlash im going to post ....
What I thought was funny post at first turned ugly fast lol
Let the guy do what he wants he is going to do it anyway , their his trees.
Nobody in thier right mind is going to attempt that kind of thing . Does that even seem remotely logical.
Has anyone thought he might have posted that to see what kind of reaction he would get.
I would bet he got the reaction he was looking for out of all of you especially Glenda.

Glenda seek anger management class or get some anti snap pills you went from 0 to 100 in 1 post flat , the new hip kids would call that a "Snap Show"
Calm down girl we all have far greater problems in life then worring about a guy that wants to torch his trees

[Galena]

The name's Galena, not Glenda.... JerryB. If you can't even read and spell a name right, don't bother posting.

[Marshall Maples]

Not sure if this is the right part of MapleTrader for this one... And, this may be an ill-thought-out plan... but...

Our farm is in Columbia County, NY, right in the Berkshires and Taconics. My daughter and I have been tapping our trees for 3 years now, but the kicker is that we have to be in Los Angeles most of the year (her for school, my wife and I for work). This year, we can only come back for five days starting this Thursday (3/9/17) and the forecast looks like this:

WED: HI 59º LOW 31º
THU: HI 43º LOW 23º
FRI: HI 33º LOW 7º
SAT: HI 20º LOW 6º
SUN: HI 28º LOW 8º

Obviously, if we could get there on Wednesday, we'd might get 2 days of at least SOMETHING. But as it stands, it looks like Thursday is just about the only day with decent chances of sap running. UNLESS... I try something. I have about 5-6 outdoor propane tank heaters, the kind that screw on top of a normal 20-pound gas cylinder. I also have some thick silver poly tarps. If I were to wrap the tarp around the tree about 12 feet high and flare it out to the ground, creating a sort of "teepee" with the gas cylinder heating within, I could essentially "warm up" 5 or 6 of my huge maples, at least the bottom 12 feet of them (and the ground close by).

I've had to do something similar with fruit trees in years past, and I can lock both cylinder and tarps down, even in high winds, so I know - and heed - all the warnings not to burn everything to the ground. But my question is this: if I were to keep things around the tree warm starting Thursday night, is there a chance I can eke out another tapping day on Friday? I had read that sap flows upwards due to the pressure changes caused by temperature, and if I can possibly "trick" some of our trees, even for a few hours, I can make my little girl very, very happy.

I don't pretend I can do anything about 7-degree weather. But if I can buy a few more hours on this very short trip, this trip will be a success. Thoughts?

I would worry that the trees would be harmed.

[MN Jake]

Wow, live and let live. It's a short season and very enjoyable for many family's. There's two things nothing will get in the way of in my life, that's deer hunting and maple season. I get it, I understand the op's wish for it to work. Personal experience is king. If tarped properly it wouldn't take that much propane at all, granted there's a good thermostat to hold it at 50 or so. It's just a solution to a problem in his eyes.

Spellcheck could have changed your name without jeffb noticing.

[JeffB]

Galena... Glenda.. Snap Show ! all the same to me ! :lol
LMFAO
You mean JEFFb not Jerryb ,, if your going to correct ones spell check errors maybe you should turn yours on or even read then copy and paste so you get it right ! :lol:

[upsmapleman]

I say let the guy go for it. I'm sure he won't get much and don't think he will hurt the trees any. I have a half dozen trees right next to my sugar house and on days when it is froze up and the steam is blowing that way they will start to run and will do so until I shut down. Having said that I'm putting over 2 million btus under my evaporator putting out a large cloud of steam. And guess what it hasn't hurt the trees in over 20 years.
A propane heater on a day like today if you could keep it lit won't even keep your hands warm. Hope I spleleled everything correctly so I don't get banned from posting.

[VTnewguy]

Wouldn't be easier to try to find some sap to buy?

[mike103]

Wouldn't be easier to try to find some sap to buy?

Indeed, or pull a jug of syrup off the shelf at grocery, but then not much ( hobby labor ) involved at that point.... But, maybe the Mythbusters show would be interested in filming the attempt, and at the end they can fill the tent with raw gas and throw a match on the tree... Maple Flambe

[bigschuss]

Bravo, Galena. I too am fed up with people who have no respect for Mother Earth. When are people going to realize once the forest and trees are gone life stops. Thank you for your candidness.

Trying to figure out how the OP has no respect for Mother Earth? Because he's trying to make sap flow when it might not? Like operations on vacuum? Are they too Mother Earth terrorists? Or oil fired evaporators?


I don't want to start a peeing match, but they are his trees, and his choice.
Y

Couldn't agree more. I don't mind that the guy got grief for not listening to any advice as Dr. Perkins mentioned. But the childish name-calling and insults that followed were pathetic.


Glenda seek anger management class or get some anti snap pills

Had the same thought.


Wouldn't be easier to try to find some sap to buy?

That was all suggested. Lots of good ideas were suggested. The OP heard none of it. Which is fine. They are his trees..his waste of time....waste of propane...trying to conduct some experiment with baselines and control groups a Student T-Test. Have at it, I say, if that's what makes the OP happy. Doesn't affect me in the least. A few others though got their panties all bunched up in a knot over it though? :lol:



The name's Galena, not Glenda.... JerryB. If you can't even read and spell a name right, don't bother posting.


But nooo, he won't listen....that would be antiethical!! ;-)

The word is antithetical.

[Russell Lampron]

I think we all need some sap to boil! This thread is getting ugly....

[NTBugtraq]

I am disappointed that nobody agreed, or denied, my belief that its barometric pressure, not temperature, that makes sap flow.

[Helicopter Seeds]

We rarely see this much fighting and arguing on this forum, and it seems that when opinions are so diametrically opposed, the reality lies somewhere in between.

Fundamentally, for a small sugarbush, it appears to be counterproductive to waste all that fuel to warm the trees.

We should also avoid the hypocrisy of trashing technical ideas when we all use many ourselves. I don't see the anger against RO systems, I don't personally like them but that is just me. People use ice to keep sap cool, and use vacuum to get more out of trees. Nobody is innocent here.

And before we trash the original poster, remember there are farming precedents for crop management using thermal techniques.
Citrus farmers in the south do use fuel to create a smog and slightly raise temperature to prevent exposure to freezing.

Also, don't forget that tobacco farmers for years have planted their crop "in the shade". quite literally under a tent of fabric. It is course material that actually reflects some of the sunlight, allowing the rain and irrigation to drip easily through.

When you consider the study of cut saplings to suck right out of a stem, and change the very nature of what we call a crop, you have to think that is just as crazy.

Mark my words, maple crops of future of small trees, tended and irrigated like any other crop, will involve thermal management techniques to make the cold nights colder and the warm days warmer.

There will still be plenty of people using more traditional methods. No reason to get upset.

[Waynehere]

I am disappointed that nobody agreed, or denied, my belief that its barometric pressure, not temperature, that makes sap flow.

I somewhat agree with you about the pressure, but you also need the trees thawed out for it to run as well. :) I have been watching the pressure a lot this season and am amazed to see the sap flow heavier when the pressure rises. I also have vac on and believe I was pulling sap right out of the ground too, way after the sap should be all drained out of the trees.

[Galena]

We rarely see this much fighting and arguing on this forum, and it seems that when opinions are so diametrically opposed, the reality lies somewhere in between.

Fundamentally, for a small sugarbush, it appears to be counterproductive to waste all that fuel to warm the trees.

We should also avoid the hypocrisy of trashing technical ideas when we all use many ourselves. I don't see the anger against RO systems, I don't personally like them but that is just me. People use ice to keep sap cool, and use vacuum to get more out of trees. Nobody is innocent here.

And before we trash the original poster, remember there are farming precedents for crop management using thermal techniques.
Citrus farmers in the south do use fuel to create a smog and slightly raise temperature to prevent exposure to freezing.

Also, don't forget that tobacco farmers for years have planted their crop "in the shade". quite literally under a tent of fabric. It is course material that actually reflects some of the sunlight, allowing the rain and irrigation to drip easily through.

When you consider the study of cut saplings to suck right out of a stem, and change the very nature of what we call a crop, you have to think that is just as crazy.

Mark my words, maple crops of future of small trees, tended and irrigated like any other crop, will involve thermal management techniques to make the cold nights colder and the warm days warmer.

There will still be plenty of people using more traditional methods. No reason to get upset.

I am all for technological advances, even if I don't agree in principle with things like vacuum. But then last season I did visit a bush which is owned by a commercial producer and I could soon see why vacuum would make sense. And if you're a commercial producer with a demand to meet, that's fine by me. I have to admit I am not at all a fan of the sapling thing - I think it's essentially shooting yourself in the foot - but at least that research is being carried out by Dr Tim and co, people who know pretty much everything there is to know about maples and sugaring.

What upsets me most is the OP's entirely blinkered reasons for trying to force his trees to produce a large amount of sap in a very short period of time, and using technology that isn't even developed with maples in mind. Not to mention that it probably won't even work because maples are not fruit trees. Plain and simple. Oh and it's dangerous etc. I've had my say and then some already on this thread, I am not going to bother saying any more.

[bigschuss]

I am disappointed that nobody agreed, or denied, my belief that its barometric pressure, not temperature, that makes sap flow.

I'm not be snarky here...please don't take it that way...but don't you think the good people at research universities across the US and Canada have figured this out all ready?

My layman's observation...if it was barometric pressure, wouldn't the sap flow year round then? The barometer fluctuates 365 days of the year. Freeze thaw cycles only occur in that roughly 6 week window we all know and love. Those changes in temperature (warming of a tree during the day) cause pressure differences inside the tree (positive pressure) which causes sap to flow. The barometer can and does cause changes in temp. Maybe what you're observing is correlated, bot not causal.

[Clinkis]

This is old research. Sap flow is effected by BOTH temperature and pressure. Researchers figured out decades ago that barometric pressure effects sap flow. Hence why vacuum is so effective which creates low pressure at the tap holes. But you still need the freeze thaw cycles to recharge the trees and sap won't flow if it's frozen no matter what the pressure.

[IWDaddo]

Wow. So, as the OP for this thread, I have indeed listened to what everyone has said, as I have immense respect for those who have trod this path before me. I've only been sugaring for 4 years, and relied heavily on you all for my arch build, my tubing system, and the tricks of the hydrometer trade. I lurked for more than a year before posting so as not to be a drive-by question-asker who get what he wants and then bolts.

I started tapping our trees because I wanted to work hard to see what my little plot of land could create for us, hence also the orchard of various fruit trees. Galena said I was "clearly a dumbass city person". Forget that I grew up in rural Iowa and the piedmont of North Carolina, I tap our trees because I never wanted to be the kind of city person with no respect for those getting their hands dirty.

Since he also found time to disparage my parenting, my scheme was in the spirit of both hard work and the joy of experimentation. I have about 15 maples — not three, as has been said — and I did indeed make a baseline the first day to have as comparison, as well as gallons recorded from past years. My "preshus" daughter and I had a great time writing it all down and braving the late-night cold to collect the results.

In short, my experiment WORKED. I was excited to post pictures and try to narrate exactly what I did, but after watching what happened to this thread, I realized I didn't owe anybody anything. This board is just another example of how the anonymity of the internet allows for atrocious behavior, letting people say things that would result in a fistfight in real life.

I can't help but think this is also why we live in desperate political times; the rage on here, for someone you don't know from Adam, sounds eerily familiar. One of the reasons I'm doing this is to GET AWAY from that horrorshow. The posters with the most vitriol: I'm sorry, but are you curing cancer? Feeding the hungry? If you're supporting your family with this business, then fair enough, but most of us are doing the same thing: making pancakes better.

That doesn't mean it can't be a passion, or that we shouldn't piss off our spouses by purchasing equipment that takes over the yard, or that we oughtn't spend too much time on these boards. It doesn't even mean I'm not a total idiot. But I think it does mean being relatively decent.