Disappointed plastic buckets

[handtapper]

I have hung milk jugs, galvanized buckets, aluminum buckets and drop tubes to plastic bakery buckets. I attended one of Chris's tubing seminars but don't own the right property for tubing. The bakery bucket is nearly a free option but the biggest issue is any wind and the buckets take a ride. I decided to invest in some more hanging buckets as they look better than bakery buckets and I figured they would hold to the trees better than a bakery bucket on the ground. I decided to go with the plastic bucket/lid everyone sells made by Embee because galvanized is on its way out, aluminum is somewhat hard to find and the free bakery buckets can be problematic. At first I was thinking great these are easier to lug around the woods seeing they weigh substantially less. Unfortunately these plastic buckets are so light that the wind can lift them horizontal on the hook unlike a heavier metal bucket, once this happens it acts like a kite and pulls the tap clean out of the tree. Granted today was windy but out of 100 hanging plastic buckets I had about 50 take to the wind, with metal buckets I lost 2. Now I wont lie bakery buckets all 100 would have taken to the wind but those are free. The bakery buckets would atleast also leave the tap/drop tube in the tree so atleast it was a snap to set back up. With these after collecting the rogue buckets you need to circle the tree trying to locate a 5/16" tap hole and re install every tap. Also the plastic ones roll and roll for a long distance in the wind where the metal ones usually hang out next to the tree.

I've read options for tying them to the tree or leaving a water bottle in there.... one shouldn't have to make a brand new product work it should be engineered to work.... just my two cents. Next time I buy aluminum

[Bricklayer]

When I used buckets I had same issue. I used the white plastic spiles. I took a heat gun and bent the hook a little more and it solved the problem. Made it a little harder to get a full bucket of sap off the hook without spilling a bit but I'd rather spill a bit then spend an afternoon searching for lost buckets.
i also had some of the plastic buckets also. So I drilled a smaller hole in them for the hook, nice and tight.

[maple marc]

I make a "bucket belt" to keep the buckets on trees in the windiest areas. Just take a piece of baling twine (or tie two together if tree is big) and tie on a section from an inner tube to make a bungee. Run the belt around the tree and the bucket. Works well for me.

[maple75]

I use drop tubes in 3 gal bakery and ice cream bucket which are light. The holes for the tubes are tight therefore the tube usually keeps the pail in place. In open areas with more wind exposure I use a water bottle in the pail to weigh it down.

[jake1]

I battled with tubing and buckets for years. Then I started using reclosable 2 gal 6 mil poly bags I get from uline.com . I stick a piece of duct tape on the back then stick a tubing tap through from the inside. The bag hangs on the tree and holds strong even with two gallons in it. I leave a couple inches on the corner unsealed Then I simply put my collection bucket under and tip the bag out . I run about 1000 bags this way and ill never go back. They are so clean and bacteria free compared to drop tube into buckets. Cost about .60$ a bag. I don't reuse them much so I recycle them after the season. Might seem wasteful but the time and energy i save not washing buckets and lids is huge.just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Cedar Eater]

How is your property not right for tubing? Since 3/16" tubing came on the market, it has been a game changer. I never expected it to be as versatile as I've found it to be. So please be specific about what makes your property ineligible.

[ka9bxg]

I have quite a few 5 gallon buckets in very windy area. I put 2 or 3 bricks on top . They stay in place quite well.

[SDdave]

Done all of them above. The best one that worked for me was putting 2 water bottles in the bottom. Tie string line/rope around the tree and find a stick and make a tourniquit (I butchered that word). Now I use drop tubes to the ground, 2 water bottles, and string line thru the handles to keep them there. Haven't lost a bucket yet with only a few times have they been blown over.

Hope that helps,

SDdave

[Sugarmaker]

I battled with tubing and buckets for years. Then I started using reclosable 2 gal 6 mil poly bags I get from uline.com . I stick a piece of duct tape on the back then stick a tubing tap through from the inside. The bag hangs on the tree and holds strong even with two gallons in it. I leave a couple inches on the corner unsealed Then I simply put my collection bucket under and tip the bag out . I run about 1000 bags this way and ill never go back. They are so clean and bacteria free compared to drop tube into buckets. Cost about .60$ a bag. I don't reuse them much so I recycle them after the season. Might seem wasteful but the time and energy i save not washing buckets and lids is huge.just thought I'd throw that out there.

Jake,
holy cow 1000 2 gal bags! your for sure the bag man!
you doing birch syrup?
regards,
chris

[handtapper]

We all agree metal buckets hold to the tree. The plastic bucket go for rides unless you macgyver something up. This is understandable for the free bakery buckets but most dissapointing for the purchased "engineered" (I use this term lightly its only a bucket)

I appreciate all of your ideas about weighting the buckets down. Again makes sense for a bakery bucket but my complaint is really about the Embee hanging buckets. Even with the bakery buckets its a hassle to carry out 600 bricks or find 600 rocks or make 600 slings etc, washing 600 water bottles holy smokes!

Jake I like your bag idea could you post a picture of the bag hanging on the tap?

Bricklayer got me thinking more about the bakery buckets and fitment of the drop tube. I have been somewhat sloppy with these drilling the holes, some are snug some are not. The snug ones seem to hold to the trees better. I have never seen a bakery bucket yank a spile out of a tree. Either the bucket goes for a ride leaving the tube/tap or the drop tube tension prevented the bucket from taking off and the bucket was on its side next to the tree. I'm going to be more cautious and try to use a slightly undersized bit (not sure sitting in front of the computer what the 3/16" tubing OD is) once ive forced the drop tube through the undersized hole I am going to put a old plastic spile on the bottom of the drop tube INSIDE the bucket. Problem solved. I dont mind the bucket being on its side next to the tree losing sap as long as I can easily correct it and dont have to walk 1/2 a mile chasing buckets down.

On the embree bucket I'm going to design a better bucket and put Embee out of business. I like the intution Bricklayer about bending the hook but seems concerning about unhooking buckets that area already tough to unhook when full. In reality if i cant find a practical/easy way to make these work I will probably just sell of these plastic embee buckets next year on craigslist and call it a loss/lesson learned.

Cedareater my property is not right for tubing because the trees are spread out on a old farm property.There are some on the north side of the house, some on the south, some way behind the barn, some on the road, some on the neighbors properties. No power for vac at some of the neighbors. I could physically do tubing, with vac if I wanted to take it down every year, I cant leave the tubing up. It would also be many different zones with different mainlines because the trees are just to spread out in clumps over a few acres of cleared worked land. I could possibly rig up a few short runs to 55gallon drums on about 10 % of the taps.

[TonyL]

We buy used aluminum buckets off ebay. With everyone going to tubing, they've been easy to find, and reasonably priced.

[Cedar Eater]

I'm going to be more cautious and try to use a slightly undersized bit (not sure sitting in front of the computer what the 3/16" tubing OD is) once ive forced the drop tube through the undersized hole I am going to put a old plastic spile on the bottom of the drop tube INSIDE the bucket.

Cedareater my property is not right for tubing because the trees are spread out on a old farm property.There are some on the north side of the house, some on the south, some way behind the barn, some on the road, some on the neighbors properties. No power for vac at some of the neighbors. I could physically do tubing, with vac if I wanted to take it down every year, I cant leave the tubing up. It would also be many different zones with different mainlines because the trees are just to spread out in clumps over a few acres of cleared worked land. I could possibly rig up a few short runs to 55gallon drums on about 10 % of the taps.

The external diameter of 3/16" tubing is 5/16". If you use a 19/64" inch tapping bit for the trees and 19/64" bit for the holes in the buckets, you will get a tighter seal on the 5/16" OD spiles in the trees and you might have a tough time getting 3/16" drop tubes into the buckets.

The fact that you mention mainlines tells me that you're not really thinking about 3/16" tubing runs, because they don't need mainlines and they are easy to route. In one area I have three isolated trees, one of them will have 3 taps, that are close enough together that I can route 3/16" tubing between them and drop the end into a 30 gallon drum that I can strap to a tree or a t-post or whatever. Then I'll drive up, pump the barrel out, and drive away. That's five taps with one stop. In another area, I have 28 taps strung together on one 3/16" line that zigzags all around on level ground for more than 600'. That line runs slowly without vacuum but I plan to put a small 12V diaphragm pump that runs off a deep cycle battery to suck on the end of that line and dump into a barrel. I'm told that I will get two days off that battery before I need to swap in a fresh one and recharge the other. Taking down and restringing 3/16" tubing every year is not all that difficult because the tubing doesn't have to be perfectly straight like a mainline or perfectly sloped like a 5/16" lateral. It can go up and down and around and it can span fairly long distances because it can tolerate sagging. You just have to label it when you take it down each year to know where to put it back up.

I'll be experimenting with even smaller cheaper diaphragm pumps to get the cost of a pumping station down because I plan to move in a couple of years to a place where the maples are all scattered around on level ground. I won't have to take the tubing down every year, but I will want to avoid walking from tree to tree to collect because they are in wet areas. I really resisted tubing at first, but when I learned that I could get more sap from fewer trees because they just kept running through warm nights and didn't shutdown early in the season (I have mostly reds) and that my collection effort would be so much easier, I gave it a try and I was hooked. You might want to try it in those areas where you can support a line with anything every 50' or so and get up to 15 taps per run. I use a lot of non-maples for support trees.

[Marcus]

I just went through and checked my sap bags and bakery buckets. No problem with bags, and only 2 buckets messed up which one was hung on a through away plastic tap and one bucket with tubing run through a hole in the side. I drill tight holes through the lid and run 5/16 tubing. I have some buckets i hang directly on 7/16 taps. My Maple products supplier Josh Williams gave me a great tip to keep the bags on. Take the retainer and slightly expand it to make it a little tighter.
Marcus Yoder

[jake1]

Theres a few pictures of the bags on this website. You can get the idea. Only have had a few bags out of thousands actually rip out and fall off the tree. They are tough, I swap out the ten percent that start leaking during the season. They never get punctured only leak from the corners but ten percent is tolerable.. I use a mainline with 30 gallon barrels every 400 ft or so. Then just pour into barrel and it gravity feeds down to truck. Last year two of us averaged two hours to collect 800 bags in one spot.the other nice thing is i can walk up on the hill at the beginning of the season with 200 bags on my back and start tapping, then go grab 200 more. Took 4 of us 2 or 3 hours to pull 800 bags from my main grove last season. Can't do that with buckets. http://www.wildscoops.com/single-post/2015/05/24/Bridge-Creek-Birch