Tapping fence Rows & Road Sides

[ibby458]

I came across a farm that has tons of hard maples in clean fence rows and along the road. There is a slight slope along the road and from the hedge rows. If I can get permission to tap these, what is the prefferred method to run tubing down a fencerow or roadside?

I pictured running 5/16 tubing from tree to tree, until I had 10 taps or so, then putting it into mainline with saddle taps or insert fittings. (Which is prefferred?) It seems redundent to run mainline and 5/16 side by side, but cutting into the mainline at every tree didn't seem right either.

[Fred Henderson]

The 10 tap rule only applies if you are using vacuum. I think Brandon puts over 40 or more on 5/16.

[mountainvan]

On the dirt road I tap that is lined with sugar maples I have a fitting at each tree. On one side I was cheap and have 1/2" mainline with t's, regular poly pipe fittings from Home depot, with a 5/16" harness at each tree. 5/16" tubing fits tight into the fitting. On the other side I have 3/4" with saddle manifolds at each tree. Total 100 taps a side, they both get the same amount of sap. With the price of 5/16 line I'd go with a fitting at each tree.

[Dave Y]

Moutainvan,
Do you have your tubing hung on high tensil or is it just hanging there?

[SapSuckers]

How many tress are you looking to tap on this roadside? I have as many as 48 taps on a 5/16 line and in runs very well. My line is just gravity and is very tight with good downhill pitch. Depending on the # of taps you are talking about you could use several collecting locations with smaller containers. Or i have seen guys put the containers in the middle of the row of trees and run into it from both directions if it is fairly level.

I would be sure to check with the land owner also and get his input. After all it is his land and whatever you do will be in plain sight of people.

[Fred Henderson]

What little 5/16 That I put in the woods has some little sags but the tree pressue will push it.

[mountainvan]

I have the mainline on galvanized electric fence wire. Not as stong as high tensile but cheaper at tsc.

[Bucket Head]

I have one 5/16 line on 24 tree's with 44 taps and another on 18 tree's with 31 tap's. They run fine and I pulled 8lbs. of natural vacuum on the 44 tap line this season.

As long as you have a decent downhill grade to the collection point, they will run without a problem. Don't worry about them not being real tight. Some of mine have sags in them and they still flow.

You should get some pretty high sugar content sap from those tree's, providing they have full crown's to them.

Good luck!

Steve

[ibby458]

There's a slope, but not much. It drops about 5' in 200' of run. There's 4 sections between 200 & 400 feet long, with the 400' run having about 100 taps on it, with maybe 8' total drop in the 400'.

I don't think there would be much natural vacuum, so I'd like to keep it from backing up. I thought 1/2 or 3/4 mainline strung from end to end would keep that from happening.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

1/2 mainline would work fine and Kevin(maplehillsugarhouse) talked about drilling a small hole and forcing in a 5/16" barbed fitting into it. This would keep you from cutting the mainline and should work fine if you are not using vaccum.

[ibby458]

I vaguely remembered that post, and thought it might work on most of these trees. On the 400' fenceline, I think I'll use fittings of some sort. The row of trees slopes away from the road, so my tank will be back in the brush. If I used a gas pump, I could pump it backward thru the same line, and up into my truck tank. At least - I THINK that will work.

[3% Solution]

Good morning Ibby,
I took over a small run of roadside trees which had 5/16 tubing on 20 taps.
That stuff was backed up 20' in the line and it had a big drop to it and I would only get about 15 gallons on a run when the other taps would give me a gallon a each.
I put in some 1/2" mainline with connections at each tree and I'll tell you I'm glad I did it, sap from that line matches the other taps now.
Just added 30 taps on the other side of the road and did the same thing, works great, I'm happy!
As far as the connections at each tree I used a "Single Manifold Saddle w/ Elbow. I bought these at Bascom's for $1.00 a pop and drilled a hole in the top of the mainline.
I stretched the mainline on the first 20 that I did and it was fine, but didn't on the 30 across the road and wished I had.
I also hung the mainline one 14 guage galvanized wire (Wal-Mart special) and put preasure-treated stakes in every 16' to keep in tight without sags.
Yeah roadside and lawn trees are the way to go!! They are some sweet!!
If I can I'll try to get the daughter to take some digi pics to send you.
Hope this helps!

Dave

[maple flats]

Somehow I don't think pumping it back from in the bush thru the same line is a good idea. I would seem to work but you would be forcing bacteria that builds in the line back into the taps and contaminate the tap hole. You would be much better using a seperate line for that. The only way it would work good from using the same line is if you were somehow able to draw from the up hill end by suction. For this you would need likely less than 20' drop and no leaks what so ever, which is hard to accomplish, but this would not push the bacteria into the taps, it would actually give temp vacumn and enhance flow while pumping. Realize however that this way is rather bizarre and would only work if no leaks are present. Leaks could be near impossible to find and you would likely have an real difficult time getting it to start drawing. The line friction could also reduce the lift you could get. You would be best off if you put the tank as close to the middle as you can. From the up hill run normally sloping at typical tap heights to a tank. From there on build an artificial hill by tapping higher as you get towards the far end with at least a 1'/hundred slope towards the tank or better yet a 2'. I have many little systems like this with my tapping at one end on my most extreme set up at about 15' above the ground, I use a 16' ext ladder to tap a few and work up to max height for the end ones. Not too bad unless tapping like this year. On snowshoes, haul laddter, tapping supplies, sanitiser for taps. At each tap you have to remove snowshoes, use ladder and then put them on to even work around the same tree because there was 4' of snow with a weak crust and if trying to move around without the snowshoes i sunk in up to my chest and had a real hard time getting up to the snowshoes. This however is the first time anything like this has happened. One line with about 9 taps (my most extreme) took me about 2 hours to tap, after that the others seemed like a breeze.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Dave,

Will the green saddle manifolds work with 1/2"?

[3% Solution]

Hi Brandon,
Yup work slick.
I just attach them with plastic ties.

Dave

[brookledge]

I kinda agree that I don't feel that pumping the sap back up your mainline is the best idea. The pressure may pop out the taps on the low end and it would definately put sap with bacteria into the tap holes.
Plus in most cases if you are pumping you are going to want to use 1" or larger for the pump discharge. I'm not sure what size mainline you have.
But as for if it is possible, yea you could do it I just think you would be better off having a seperate line.
Keith

[ibby458]

As of right now, this is just a research topic. I haven't spoke to the owner yet. I drive by this farm to pick up the sap from the Amish Farm, so it would be an easy pick up, BUT - the Amish family is thinking of selling, and If I don't go there, I likely wouldn't tap these trees.

I hadn't thought of the bacteria angle on pumping back sap. (I think the spouts would hold, if I didn't try to pound a lot of pressure to the line). There is the possibility of an access road to the bottom of the fence rows, but I'd have to leave a tractor there and transfer sap twice. (More chances to filter it!) The other option is about an extra 750' of mainline, then I could run it downhill to a collection tank right next to the blacktop road. (THe road makes a right angle curve just after this farm). I don't mind the cost, IF - I can get a 5 year lease to spread out the cost.

I don't have any mainline yet. 3/4 isn't much more exppensive than 1/2, so I think I'd go with that.

[maple flats]

I think if you have a drop all the way to the hard road you could get away with 1/2". In the maple producers manual there is a chart for # taps on each size and several rates of drop, but you likely could get more flow if you were getting natural vac and not in sections where the tubing has other lines entering the system. However if you need bigger that says you are getting lots of sap. My thouights are that if a pipeline is not full you get no natural vac and if it is full and you have a good drop you get natural vac.

[ibby458]

There is a drop all the way to the hard road, but it's slight - maybe 10' of drop in about 750'. Still - sap will flow downhill.

Right now, I'm still thinking about it. We picked up the buckets and tanks from the Amish Farm yesterday, and as we passed the farm that had the maples, I saw dozens of them cut down and bucked up for stove wood. So far, it's just the smaller ones, but if the owner keeps cutting them, this whole idea becomes a moot point, and I go look at another bush I know about.