Shurflo's capabilities

[jmayerl]

Just thinking people could list out what they run for pumps and the set up they have. Might be a good way for people to judge if shurflos are right for them. What's everyone have.

I have 8 runs of 3/16 that drop 0-30 feet and all meet at a manifold at the pump. 190 taps total, about 5000' of 3/16. I get 27-29" at all top taps, and 20" at the manifold. I run a 4048 off a deep cycle with solar charger. Had a 2088 last season but my understanding in that the 4048 is the biggest pump they offer

[CampHamp]

I have a 4048 and it's going into season 5, even with the original diaphragm. Only 120 taps here, half are on 3/16. I made .5G/tap last year.

I have 2 mainlines that fork to a Y and through the pump. 12 laterals.

I pull around 23" at the pump when it's flowing well.

I use a 12V thermostat relay to kill the pump after it's below freezing and start it up when thawed.

I use a 4008 to pump from collection directly to my head tank.

I am playing with programmable microcontrollers this year and installed depth sensors to see tank levels remotely and to start/stop head-tank pump. I was thinking about installing a flow meter to track sap totals, but probably do that next year.

[maple milker]

I have 330' of 3/4" mainline with about 20 DSD saddles going to 80 taps on a 2088 12volt pump. I am only getting 5 inches of vacuum and can't figure it out. I did find a cracked tap by checking the loops at the saddle for air bubbles but that didn't improve things any. I also installed a bypass line from the tank to get a constant flow of sap but still no increase.
My gauge is on a saddle with a 3 foot line about 20 feet from the pump. The only encouraging thing is that if I crack the valve at the end of the mainline there is a heck of a woosh of vacuum. Any suggestions?
Do you think I could dead head the pump on a short piece of line to see if the pump is bad?

[sugarwoodacres]

Just thinking people could list out what they run for pumps and the set up they have. Might be a good way for people to judge if shurflos are right for them. What's everyone have.

I have 8 runs of 3/16 that drop 0-30 feet and all meet at a manifold at the pump. 190 taps total, about 5000' of 3/16. I get 27-29" at all top taps, and 20" at the manifold. I run a 4048 off a deep cycle with solar charger. Had a 2088 last season but my understanding in that the 4048 is the biggest pump they offer
Seems like a great setup and not a bank breaker. I like to say Im a hobby guy at 200 taps. NJ season is so whacky this year and last i think vaccuum would help me for the short season we have. I checked out your FB page. Nice pics and operation. Good Luck

[maplestudent]

I have about 3000' (total tubing including all side runs) of 5/16 hooked up to a 4008 (12v) that is powered by a repurposed cable tv box power supply to which I run a 100' extension cord from the house. tubing consists of 2 main runs, one about 900' which serves the front side of the hill on my lot, the second about 2100' which serves the back side of the hill. the front run goes directly to most of the trees, with a few side runs. the back run is all over the place, with long and short side runs. clearly not the most efficient tubing setup, but it sure beats collecting by hand, and will also give sap on marginal days when I otherwise would not get much.

the two main runs meet at a manifold at the pump, which also has a recirculating line in order to generate vacuum if needed. both main runs and recirculating line have valves at the manifold. this is my third year with this pump, using original diaphragm. I have a 40w bulb inside the pump box to keep it from freezing when needed.

I have 88 taps this year (same as the last 2 years), and hope to add more this weekend, but need to fix a few more 'taped' squirrel chews before I do that (fixed the more difficult and large ones this past weekend).

[jmayerl]

Still early in the season but the 4048 was a good upgrade. It seems to last much longer on the battery charge than the 2088.

[Biz]

I have two 12 volt model 4008 Shurflo pumps set out. Sap lines are 3/16 with 39 taps and 21 taps. They are awesome, I get 22-24" vacuum at the pump and keep running over my tanks!!

I have designed a programmable controller to turn the unit on/off with temperature (thermostat function) and monitor battery voltage and faults. It also controls an electric ball valve which allows sap to drain from the pump, strainer, and piping when the pump turns off, to prevent freeze damage. Pump stays outside with no heat lamps. Controller also allows sap to bypass the pump and flow to the collection tank under gravity if the pump is not running but sap wants to run. The system prevents sap loss for any reason such as pump turned off, low battery, or fault condition like bad pump.

I have solar panel to help keep the batteries charged. One night last week after running for a couple of days, the battery was running very low and the controller sensed that, stopped the pump, opened the bypass valve, and sap continued to gravity flow through the bypass valve. In the morning once the sun came out, the battery started charging up, and the pump automatically restarted once battery level rose up high enough. I didn't lose any sap, and didn't have to touch it! Very cool since my pump is 600' in the woods!

Have several controllers at customer sites also. Contact me if interested in one for next season. Have Youtube Facebook videos out there.

Dave

[awpoolco]

I want a temp switch to turn my 12v shurflo off but have no idea what to get. Who has a simple cheap one, and where can I get one?

[littleTapper]

Here's what I use to control my 4008. Works great. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00TN7HNTC/ref=psd_mlt_nbc_B00K75QRZA_r

[sugarwoodacres]

I have two 12 volt model 4008 Shurflo pumps set out. Sap lines are 3/16 with 39 taps and 21 taps. They are awesome, I get 22-24" vacuum at the pump and keep running over my tanks!!

I have designed a programmable controller to turn the unit on/off with temperature (thermostat function) and monitor battery voltage and faults. It also controls an electric ball valve which allows sap to drain from the pump, strainer, and piping when the pump turns off, to prevent freeze damage. Pump stays outside with no heat lamps. Controller also allows sap to bypass the pump and flow to the collection tank under gravity if the pump is not running but sap wants to run. The system prevents sap loss for any reason such as pump turned off, low battery, or fault condition like bad pump.

I have solar panel to help keep the batteries charged. One night last week after running for a couple of days, the battery was running very low and the controller sensed that, stopped the pump, opened the bypass valve, and sap continued to gravity flow through the bypass valve. In the morning once the sun came out, the battery started charging up, and the pump automatically restarted once battery level rose up high enough. I didn't lose any sap, and didn't have to touch it! Very cool since my pump is 600' in the woods!

Have several controllers at customer sites also. Contact me if interested in one for next season. Have Youtube Facebook videos out there.

Dave
How much for the setup ?

[Biz]

Sent you a PM!

[Ivyacres]

That is tooo cool. What a blessing to be able to put together such interesting pieces of technology. I hope you are able to help lots of small producers get the best out of their bush!

[Biz]

Thanks Ivyacres. The controller saved me yesterday too. After a cold night, pump tried to turn on in the morning when temperature was above 35 degrees outside for a period of time but I think the pump was still frozen and did not start up. The controller detected that and went back to a bypass condition. So I still caught the gravity flow. I can fix this by increasing my thaw time delay, now that I know it was too short. If I just had a simple thermostat, I would have gotten zero sap for the day if the pump failed to start because it was frozen.

Dave

[Super Sapper]

With the temp. controller set it to shut off just below where the sap freezes in the line and you will not have issues with a frozen pump. The screen will stop the ice and you will only pull the gases for a short while to empty the pump of liquid. I am on my third year with running three 2088 pumps and have not had an issue. I changed one battery our yesterday after 2 straight days of running and the battery was at 40% when I put it on the charger.

[motowbrowne]

I have about 265 taps on 3/16 coming into a 130' one inch mainline. I have 15 lateral lines. They all have slope, but they aren't all very steep. Total elevation from the top tap to the bottom is maybe 35', so most have less than that.

I'm running a Shurflo 2008 and getting 18" of vacuum in the mainline. No recirculation line yet. I also plumbed it so I can run two 2008s in parallel if I thought one want doing the job. So far, though, I'm pleased that it's pulling 18". I am sure there's leaks on some of my lines, but I'm on crutches and can't walk them. I also seem to be having a hard time teaching people to find leaks...

On the other side of my woods I have 20 taps on 3/16 with low slope coming into a 5' piece of one inch mainline with a 2008 on the other end. Just got that line installed today. Got the pump in the mail today too, as a matter of fact. Gong to string another lateral tomorrow that will have another 20 or so and will tie into the same mainline.

One thing I learned this year setting up my hybrid system is that mainline makes this stuff much easier to hook together. I was intimidated by stringing the high tension wire and hanging the line, but it really wasn't hard. The saddle fittings, star fittings, and barbed connectors make it cheap and simple to install versus building PVC manifolds like I did last year.

[RileySugarbush]

First year with tubing for me. 3 lines of 3/16 about 300' each, one pair is Tee'd together about 100' up. Total of about 38 taps on them and trees are all along a 50' hill, some near top, some near bottom. One line goes up over the driveway and back down to catch the top 10 trees. Single Shurflo 4008 on a manifold with four inlets and a screen filter. On the four inlets, I have two lines in, one vac gage, and one recirculation line that drops into the tank All inlets and outlets are on brass air chucks so I can take things on and off easily. Best is you can disconnect the outlet and it shuts off like an air line would. No need to shut down the pump for quick changes!

I have a 5/16 line running about 200' to the main tank by the sugarhouse, and when I have that connected to transfer, the vac at the pump drops to about 10" hg. Otherwise it is about 18-20" Transferring involves connecting the long line to the main tank and opening up the recirc line so recirc flow and any new flow goes the distance.

I unchuck, unplug and bring the pump/manifold inside on freezing nights. I just drop the free flowing male chuck fittings in the tank for gravity flow then. The fitting weight helps keep the tup in the collection tank.

I like this setup and will run another section next year.

[Cedar Eater]

I unchuck, unplug and bring the pump/manifold inside on freezing nights. I just drop the free flowing male chuck fittings in the tank for gravity flow then. The fitting weight helps keep the tup in the collection tank.

What kind of fittings are these? I've been looking for some kind of quick disconnect fittings to use with my pumps.

[RileySugarbush]

http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=15872&stc=1

Nothing fancy but they work great. Brass compressed air hose fittings

[jmayerl]

I like the quick disconnects much better than my manifold

[Cedar Eater]

I'm surprised those don't leak. They always seem to with compressed air. I found something like them in 1/2" SS, but they aren't cheap for a set. http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=%2Bstainless+%2Bqdc

[RileySugarbush]

I was surprised how well they work too. I was unsure if they would work with vacuum, but they do. I bought mine from Menards for a couple of bucks. Cheap imports I am sure, but I washed them to remove any oil and I'm happy with them. They are listed as red brass, which is an alloy of copper and tin and may or may not have a couple of percent lead, so that may freak some people out. The sap is in contact with these fittings for a fraction of a second at low temp. Material is similar to the fittings you find in the plumbing department at the hardware store, like faucets and barb fittings.

[Waynehere]

This is my 3rd season with Shurflo pumps and 1st season using the recirc line to help keep the diaphragm wet. What a difference that has made. The last warm period, we got 600 gal sap one day and 550 the next. That is on 270 taps. Use to only get 3-350 per day.

We have been using the cam-lock fittings. We use 5/16th for the main and laterals with runs up to 600'. I have not measured the actual vacuum, but I know it is pretty high. I use a piece of 1/2" pex to one of the shurflow barbed connectors, then a 1/2" pex to a 5/16th star fitting to hook my sap lines up.

http://www.camlock-fittings.com/polypropylene-camlock-couplings.html

With the recirc lines though, I have been manually turning these systems on and off as the lines tend to freeze up in the tank during the cold snaps. So I drain what little sap is in the tanks, pull the inlet side of the pump apart and run the pump dry to keep the pump from freezing. On a warm up I will head out and hook things back up. I use to rely on the temp controllers, but had too many problems with the recirc lines as you need a puddle in the tank in order for them to work. But it has been well worth the little extra effort.

[Cedar Eater]

This is my 3rd season with Shurflo pumps and 1st season using the recirc line to help keep the diaphragm wet. What a difference that has made. The last warm period, we got 600 gal sap one day and 550 the next. That is on 270 taps. Use to only get 3-350 per day.

We have been using the cam-lock fittings. We use 5/16th for the main and laterals with runs up to 600'. I have not measured the actual vacuum, but I know it is pretty high. I use a piece of 1/2" pex to one of the shurflow barbed connectors, then a 1/2" pex to a 5/16th star fitting to hook my sap lines up.

http://www.camlock-fittings.com/polypropylene-camlock-couplings.html

With the recirc lines though, I have been manually turning these systems on and off as the lines tend to freeze up in the tank during the cold snaps. So I drain what little sap is in the tanks, pull the inlet side of the pump apart and run the pump dry to keep the pump from freezing. On a warm up I will head out and hook things back up. I use to rely on the temp controllers, but had too many problems with the recirc lines as you need a puddle in the tank in order for them to work. But it has been well worth the little extra effort.

Thanks. In my case for now, the pumped vacuum will be at a sugarbush that is so far away that I don't want to drive there whenever it might freeze. So I was thinking that I would skip the recirc until I can find a way to make it work with a temperature controller in the system. But I do like those camlock fittings.

[awpoolco]

Guys, I have two lines each 500 feet, with 87 taps on one and 53 on the other, all 5/16 tubing with about 30ft of natural elevation. They are tied together at a 1/2" header. One runs like i expected with gas bubbles and sap. The other no gas bubbles and sap slowly trickles through. It seems like I have an air leak but cant find one anywhere. How can I find it? can I use a compressor at the end of the line and go walk until i find the hiss? or is there another way? idk about to give up

[BSD]

Guys, I have two lines each 500 feet, with 87 taps on one and 53 on the other, all 5/16 tubing with about 30ft of natural elevation. They are tied together at a 1/2" header. One runs like i expected with gas bubbles and sap. The other no gas bubbles and sap slowly trickles through. It seems like I have an air leak but cant find one anywhere. How can I find it? can I use a compressor at the end of the line and go walk until i find the hiss? or is there another way? idk about to give uphow about a stethoscope?

[mspina14]

Guys, I have two lines each 500 feet, with 87 taps on one and 53 on the other, all 5/16 tubing with about 30ft of natural elevation. They are tied together at a 1/2" header. One runs like i expected with gas bubbles and sap. The other no gas bubbles and sap slowly trickles through. It seems like I have an air leak but cant find one anywhere. How can I find it? can I use a compressor at the end of the line and go walk until i find the hiss? or is there another way? idk about to give up

I made a "leak tester" for my 5/16 tubing:

16157

Used a vise grip and a brass door hinge.

I run the pump (a Lunchbox) and turn off all the lines (using a valve in each line) except the one with the suspected leak. I start at the pump and walk along the line with the leak tester, clamping it on the tubing every 25 feet or so to stop the vacuum. With the Lunchbox, if the pump doesn't stop running when the line is clamped, the leak is between that spot and the last spot I clamped the line.

Not sure if a shurflo pump works the same way.


Mark

[Super Sapper]

Guys, I have two lines each 500 feet, with 87 taps on one and 53 on the other, all 5/16 tubing with about 30ft of natural elevation. They are tied together at a 1/2" header. One runs like i expected with gas bubbles and sap. The other no gas bubbles and sap slowly trickles through. It seems like I have an air leak but cant find one anywhere. How can I find it? can I use a compressor at the end of the line and go walk until i find the hiss? or is there another way? idk about to give up

It sounds more like you are plugged than leaking. If it were a leak you would have more bubbles and running faster.

[Super Sapper]

I collected 1340 gallons over the last 3 days on 340 taps. I have 280 on 3 separate shurflo lines with 3/16 and 2 run into 3/4 inch mainlines. Yesterday out of the 710 gallons collected I got 1 gallon per tap on the bags and 5 gallon containers (mostly yard trees) and 2.3 galloons per tap on the shurflo with 3/16. I use 2088 pumps and have 22 to 25 inches on the lines when running with 95 taps and 150 taps. The one with 35 taps I do not have a gauge on. I would have collected more on Sat. and Sunday but I had issues with the line with 150 taps both days but not on Monday. About 1/3 of the taps on the shurflo with 3/16 have no slope or very little. I have found that on the longer runs I only loose 1 to 2 inches on these at the end with no slope and up to 25 taps.

[awpoolco]

Well here is a new twist, I switched the valve on and off between the two lines and found that it will back feed the line with vacuum and not the other way around. What doe you suppose that means? Clearly something is different between the two lines. sap runs down this line but not in little columns like the other. It's like the sap is just poring down the line with air moving above the sap. I am going to take my air tank with about 15 psi from the bottom of the run and then check every seem. What do you think of that idea? Maybe i should rum air down from the top first to make sure it is clear all the way down? 45 deg today so I have to try something

[awpoolco]

Ok folks, I found a cut line and repaired it. No sap flowing so I couldn't really see if I found the whole problem. I used compressed air in my portable tank to feed air into the line. the lever nozzle fit perfectly into a tap. now several days to wait for some more sap to run...

[mspina14]

how was your line cut?

[Dale Sparrow]

Guys, I have two lines each 500 feet, with 87 taps on one and 53 on the other, all 5/16 tubing with about 30ft of natural elevation. They are tied together at a 1/2" header. One runs like i expected with gas bubbles and sap. The other no gas bubbles and sap slowly trickles through. It seems like I have an air leak but cant find one anywhere. How can I find it? can I use a compressor at the end of the line and go walk until i find the hiss? or is there another way? idk about to give up I have seen the same thing, trees gassing causing most of the bubbles.

[awpoolco]

The line looked like it was cut in the shipping and transit. It was a 1/2" slit lengthwise along the tubing. Does 5" of vacuum at the end of the line, near the pump, sound correct without sap???? Oh by the way, my air tank worked great but because of the leak i ran out of air faster than I ever thought possible. I am looking for a regulator that is affordable to add to the tank for future use...

[BSD]

without water or sap (that doesn't compress) in the line there are a ton of variables to figure if 5" of vacuum is a good sign or a bad sign. Probably have to wait for the sap to run to see the real results. sounds like you're on the right track though.

[Earthman]

I would agree with BSD. I just went to using shurflos too and found the same results yesterday. Before the sap started running good, I was only able to get about 5 inches at the pump. Yesterday, when things started to wake up, I achieved 16 inches at the pump. On one end of my lines, the other gauge read 18 ish and another was 23. It appears having sap in the system helps to increase your gauge readings and vac. Now we are in another deep freeze, i'll have to wait to see anything again.

[BAP]

Use a recirculation line out of your tank to keep fluid moving threw the pump. I have one and can get 20+" of vacuum with my Shurflo 4008 and 90 taps.

[awpoolco]

I have a header shaped like a "T", two incoming lines on both sides. My recirculation line comes into the middle, straight in line with the pump. Everything is valved so that I can troubleshoot and isolate lines. When I run the recirculation line at full speed it sure does pump well, I have to crack the other lines or lose prime because there just hasn't been enough sap. Give me sap...

[awpoolco]

Are we going to get any sap this week????

[awpoolco]

If my shurflo only has 10 in of vacuum before I hooked it up, how is it possible it will ever have more than that after hooking it up?

[Biz]

It will. I have 3 out there, they pull 8-12" with no flow. With sap flow I get 22-26" at the pump. They are not efficient at pumping air, just liquids. Now I am hoping for more liquids :)

Dave

[maple milker]

It's incredible what even 10 inches of vacuum will achieve. It was taking 90 seconds to fill a 10 oz glass on gravity on 80 taps. After switching to my 2088 and waiting for 15 minutes it filled in 30 seconds!

[awpoolco]

Has anyone tried the shurflo 8000 for their tubing runs?

[motowbrowne]

https://youtu.be/C0agMD1YRa0

This is a Shurflo 2088 hooked up to 265 taps on 3/16. If I'm diligent about finding leaks, it pulls a consistent 20" at the mainline. It's worked very well for me this year.

[awpoolco]

So, what is the difference in all these model numbers for the shurflo pumps? Do any of them come with female NPT? How about this 8000 model seems to be just like the rest only more powerful. Am I missing some important detail? Is bigger better?

[Cedar Eater]

So, what is the difference in all these model numbers for the shurflo pumps? Do any of them come with female NPT? How about this 8000 model seems to be just like the rest only more powerful. Am I missing some important detail? Is bigger better?

The 2088 has three chambers, the 4008 has four. The more chambers, the smoother and quieter it will run and that also boosts the flow rate. The cheap Chinese Favson class pumps have two chambers.

[awpoolco]

i bought this pump, what do you think? NorthStar NSQ Series 12V On-Demand Diaphragm Pump - 3 GPM @ 60 PSI

[awpoolco]

Well guys, I have a guess that the pump I bought is only a one chamber pump. Do you feel this is why my vacuum is so low. Taking it apart now to see if there is anything causing issues. It pumps like crazy, as a transfer pump and does 3 gpm as advertised, but has very little vacuum capability. I have plugged all the leaks I can find. I also decided I would see what kind of vacuum it would build on a 500' roll of tubing and one tap and a 30' drop in elevation from top to bottom and no measurable sap flow to speak of at 35 degrees. It pulled a measly 3" at the top and 5" at the bottom… We will see what it does when the sap flows on monday at sunny and 47. The rest of my 275 taps will have to run on gravity while I mess with this some more.

[Cedar Eater]

Do you have a vacuum gauge on the suction side of the pump? Have you tried a bypass line to wet the diaphragm?

[awpoolco]

yes i do. To both questions. With the recirculation running the pump runs like crazy if I ope a valve to the tubing lines every bit of vacuum is lost. i get about 3-5 inches max. I have 30' of elevation, that in itself will produce some natural vacuum. Does the number of chamber to the pump make a difference in holding a vacuum? I still think Its either a leak or the wrong kind of pump

[Biz]

That looks a lot like the Favson pump. I built a test setup with a Favson a couple weeks ago and found that it cannot self prime well, won't pull 4 ft but can do 1-2 ft. Once going, it pumps good and I was able to get around 20" on a gauge. Definitely needs to be wetted or have a recirculate line. Seems like it should work well at the bottom of a line with a slight grade but I bet it is very sensitive to leaks. I ran out of time to test it out on a real sap line.

Dave

[awpoolco]

thanks, I will keep at it. What i like is the 1/2" nptf ports and the aluminum housing instead of plastic. But if it isn't what I should run please speak up. It self primes easily from my collection tank and pushes 500 feet to the sugar house and up into my gravity tank there 8ft up. i just wonder about its ability to gain vacuum with only one chamber in the diaphragm. More thoughts?

[Cedar Eater]

yes i do. To both questions. With the recirculation running the pump runs like crazy if I ope a valve to the tubing lines every bit of vacuum is lost. i get about 3-5 inches max. I have 30' of elevation, that in itself will produce some natural vacuum. Does the number of chamber to the pump make a difference in holding a vacuum? I still think Its either a leak or the wrong kind of pump

Can you pinch down on your recirc line with a valve to get just barely enough flow to keep the diaphragms wet? If not, it sounds like your tubing run has a big leak and isn't a closed system to the taps. I don't know of any single chamber pumps. You might need to post a pic so we know what you're dealing with.

[awpoolco]

will do, stand by.

[awpoolco]

Found the major leak!!!!!! Wish I could upload my stupid video of the find. Believe it or not it was so random. It was the tree. The tap hit a rotten spot that I was unaware of. The rotten spot lead to a 1" branch that had died. The air was from the knot hole. Vacuum is now at 15". woohoo

[awpoolco]

so i found the leak, it was a hole in the tree just above the tap. A small prance about 1" had died and a narrow rot had begun inside the tree, apparently my drill tapped into the rot slightly and air was sucking right into the line. I drilled a new tap hole and it was good to go. Lesson learned. My small air compressor with regulator and 500' of power cords held the constant pressure needed for me to hear the leak. I know just what to do next year, can't wait for 2018