Long warm spell and mold concerns

[Lazarus]

This is our second year on a brand new tubing system with high vacuum. This year has been a record warm winter here in the south. See attached picture for what my mold looks like. Again, this tubing is only 1.5 years old.

This looks like an alarming amount to me. There's no one else around me I can compare to so I'd appreciate some feedback. I have entire 800 foot mainlines that look like this.

Now for the question.... the next week temps will be near 70 all week, lows in the 50s. An entire week. If this was a freeze I would turn off my pump. I'm afraid if I do the mold will go off the charts. But the pump in enclosed in a shipping container and I'm afraid it will overheat even with the fan going. Thoughts?

Appreciate any feedback on what to do with technology next week as well as this tubing at end of season.

1550415505

[treehugger89]

Did u sanitize the line last year?

[Lazarus]

I was advised last year by the manufacturer's reps that most people do nothing with their lines. I was told to untap while the pump was running to let the line clear the sap for a few seconds and then put the drop back in its keeper after all the lines were done, then I could turn the pump off.

Clearly that might not have been the best advice. At the beginning of this season the lines actually didn't look very bad. There were some tiny spots but nothing really bad. Warm weather during the maple season is very common for us though and once we started having a warm winter at the lines just got worse and worse. I just don't know what to do with it now.

[Tweegs]

That shot with the saddle…

Last year I noted that every place I had a leak, I had mold growth identical to that.
Both upstream and downstream of the leak.

Is there a chance that saddle may be leaking?


I was able to clean mine with some bailing string (cheap at Tractor Supply), a bottle brush (kitchen drawer) and a roll of semi rigid 5/16ths (Leader 30-P).

The 5/16ths works really well as a fish tape, string to both ends of the brush (snap off the handle), pull the brush back and forth through the tube (you’ll figure it out). For longer runs I popped a saddle and pulled the string out through the hole.


I pulled about 30 gal of fresh water through when I was done with the brush and did it during the January thaw.

Oh, and don’t forget to replace the brush or the wife will beat you about the head and shoulders.
If she questions why she has a new one, claim ignorance (brush fairy must’ve thought she needed an upgrade), works for me.

[treehugger89]

Last year I cleaned my lines with a bleach solution 40gal of warm water to 4 cups of bleach. It worked and even for the taps.

[Lazarus]

I don't think the lines have a leak. This mold is along the entire length of several lines, each one 800-1000 feet long (which makes manual brush cleaning maybe not possible). I should point out I am on level ground. Vacuum is required to move sap. I have been averaging between 25 and 28 inches of vacuum consistently. I walk the lines daily to check for leaks.

I'm sure bleach would work, but I'm afraid of what it would do to to the lines. Is that a common practice? How do you ever get it all out?

[Maple Hill]

I run my vacuum for 2 days after the taps are pulled to remove any moisture that is left. Seems to work well.

[Tweegs]

Bleach used to be a common practice, not so much anymore.
Squirrels really like it.
RO membranes really hate it.

You can go down that road of what is “approved” for tube cleaning in the U.S. (water only), or some use hydrogen peroxide.
There are a ton of threads on the subject.

[Lazarus]

OK, so I am trying first to use hydrogen peroxide to get the mold out. I am using a CDL backpack doser as I untap, under vacuum. Once a mainline is done I am closing off the vacuum on the line to let the peroxide residue soak. I am planning to hit them again in a week, and flush the mainlines with water under vacuum to see how much of the crud comes out. I have 35% food grade peroxide that I am diluting down to 3%. I don't know if any of this process is correct and I am not sure the peroxide alone will work. I just can't seem to get enough contact with it in the mainlines.

If this doesn't work I will have to open up the tubing and clean it manually, which is likely to take me the whole summer. Otherwise I am estimating I will have to replace 50% of my mainline, 50% of the drops, and 30% of my laterals. They've only been up 2 seasons, 14 months total. Cost a fortune to have put in to begin with. This is an epic disaster.

I do not have access to the CDL peroxide mix (can't get it shipped and no store within 300 miles). I haven't gotten any usable advice from them on the topic otherwise (asked repeatedly). I know their solution has a small amount of phosphoric acid in it. Anyone know what the correct mix of acid to peroxide is, and at what concentrate of peroxide?

[maplwrks]

What are you using for tubing? I use 30p and have never had mold like this and I don't clean my tubing at all. My drops are a softer plastic, and get real moldy and get replaced every 3 years. My mains are Charter gray pipe.

[mellondome]

Sounds like the issue is that you have sap staying in your lines due to no slope. And hot days will grow stuff in sugar water. Vacuum is not used to move sap. It is used to create pressure differential in the tree to get more sap. If you have to use vacuum to move sap in your lines, then you dont have enough slope for tubing. You may need to look at using ladders and creating a stepped tubing layout. Slope 100ft to almost the ground and ladder it up and start again.

[Lazarus]

I may very well have to rerun it. As I mentioned, it was professionally installed at a pretty high cost per tap, and I left the design up to the installers who were aware of the lack of any slope. We're running a 7.5 HP vacuum pump and without it, no sap hits the extractor. I was also advised that I didn't have to clean the lines and I could just untap them and put them in the keepers so they didn't even get air dried last year.

Before I go to the expense of running ladders (at one every 100 feet that's 85-95 ladders - not sure that's cost effective) I'm going to try a thorough cleaning with peroxide, flush with water and air drying and see if that helps. Even with the lack of cleaning they started the second season not looking bad, but obviously were starting at a disadvantage and it was a terrible warm season.

This is standard CDL 1" mainlines and 5/16 laterals, blue. They are not soft materials like the drops.

[Lazarus]

Just a final update on this. I have hit these lines with everything that I can think of. I have even tried manually scrubbing them on the inside which in itself is extremely difficult. I spent 8 hours and maybe got a couple hundred feet. The lines are literally black all the way around and this stuff has turned into something resembling tar.

At this point I believe the only thing that I can do is replace every mainline and completely redesign the system. Over 7,000 feet of mainline is going to have to go and I'm going to have to switch to a ladder system. So much for professional installation. The English language does not have the right words to describe how angry I am. This installation is only 2 seasons old. Unbelievable.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

I don't think anyone will blame you for the frustration. Installers should have known better and if they were truly "professionals" than they would know if ladders were needed. Sorry to hear that, but yes with mold that bad everywhere you may never get it out. And if you did, sounds like it is the install causing it. Sorry man, good luck!