3/16 tubing system install

[Gratefulmaple]

I have a row of trees along the edge of a field I was going to tap. I was at the local dealer last year and he suggested I put them on 3/16 tubing. The slope isn't as steep as I originally thought I would say it's a 15 foot drop from the first tree to where I'm going to put the collection tank. I was thinking to take up the elevation needed I was going to use a ladder to install the last taps and run the line down to the collection tank connecting all the taps/drops along the way. I was going to put 30 taps on each line and run each line like the first. Should this give it enough vacuum? I would think it would. I'm including pictures the first being at the tank location the second being 5 ft above the ravine. Thanks in advance. 1548615487

[Lano75]

Grateful Maple I am also running my first 3/16 line this year, drops and buckets up until now. I ran my lines today just need to install drops w/Ts. I would say worse case scenerior is very little vacuum but one collection point.

[maple flats]

If you have 15' drop you will get about 14" vacuum at the top and just under 5" on that lowest tree. Any vacuum is better than none. Even with that little rise you will be amazed at the flow.

[Gratefulmaple]

Now I was told that if the upper tap was up high it would make enough vacuum on the whole system. Would it be worth tapping all my trees up high if it doesn't work like that.

[325abn]

It's recommended min 30ft drop from the lowest tap for optimal vac. Not sure if you will have enough vacuum to overcome the size difference between 3/16 and 5/16 might be better to use standard 5/16 gravity flow. Cheap enough to experiment maybe Dr. Tim will chime in.

[Cedar Eater]

3/16" is your best bet. Any natural vacuum is better than no natural vacuum. I had a sapline last year with only 20' of drop. It was on the north side of a hill in a cold swamp and it took forever before it flowed, but when it did get the line full, it flowed and flowed and flowed good sap until well after the warmer lines turned buddy.

[Ghs57]

My 3/16 lines run like gangbusters. Some have nearly no slope at all. Other than my lines on vac, all new lines are 3/16 no matter the drop. Dr. Tim has said some vac is better than no vac, as noted here earlier.

..speaking of lines, I've got to get back out and get more in today. Would like to get them all in today (just dreaming I guess).

[DrTimPerkins]

Now I was told that if the upper tap was up high it would make enough vacuum on the whole system. Would it be worth tapping all my trees up high if it doesn't work like that.

No. It might be worth it to put one or two up high in order to get a little vacuum going to start the whole thing, but doing it on all the trees is not productive. Beyond the PITA factor of tapping with a ladder, you are losing head pressure from each tree and will get less flow from the tree as you go higher up. You lose a ft of water column pressure for each ft higher you tap, so basically you're going to break even at best.

This is the same reason that using 3/16" drops into buckets isn't going to get much of any return. Say that you normally tap 2 ft up and put the buckets on the ground with droplines going into them. If you put 3/16" tubing in, you're going to gain about 0.88" Hg vacuum for that difference in height from the tap to the top of the bucket. Ah....but your brain is working on overtime (and perhaps a few cold ones), so you think....I'll tap 6 ft up with 3/16" and get 6 ft x 0.88" Hg per ft, and end up with 5.28" Hg....pretty good and what a smart boy you are. EXCEPT that you lose that extra 4 ft of head pressure in the tree by tapping 6 ft high instead of 2 ft high, so your net result is no gain in vacuum at all. Now if you normally tap 6 ft high with buckets (pretty unusual) then maybe you'll gain a little with 3/16" drops, but otherwise....no.

[BristolHills]

I put in 13 taps on 3/16 tubing for first time on west facing hill. All sugars , after an hour it was drawing 25 on the vac gauge no more hiking the hill to empty buckets. I would post pictures but cannot figure it out from my phone. Going to run another line today

[RileySugarbush]

I am also new to tubing, and my 3/16 is working well. Lines are 300' and about 50' drop with 15 taps each. The question I have is how much gas is expected out of trees? I get a lot, and the % gas/sap seems to depends on flow. On a good day, would you expect 30 to 50% bubbles? I think I have a tight system, and have fixed a couple of small leaks, but do I need to check seal on the spile?

[newmod]

I Love the 3/16 setup. This is our first year using it. Have roughly 4800 ft of lines ran. I have the perfect property for it. all on steep hillside. 400 ft runs with about 25-30 taps on each. from first tap to tote I have a 100' elevation drop. Probably wont get a vacuum gauge on it this year. Best thing about it is we can drive right to the totes and pump out into Back of truck and back up to top of hill to boil.

[Gratefulmaple]

No. It might be worth it to put one or two up high in order to get a little vacuum going to start the whole thing, but doing it on all the trees is not productive. Beyond the PITA factor of tapping with a ladder, you are losing head pressure from each tree and will get less flow from the tree as you go higher up. You lose a ft of water column pressure for each ft higher you tap, so basically you're going to break even at best.

This is the same reason that using 3/16" drops into buckets isn't going to get much of any return. Say that you normally tap 2 ft up and put the buckets on the ground with droplines going into them. If you put 3/16" tubing in, you're going to gain about 0.88" Hg vacuum for that difference in height from the tap to the top of the bucket. Ah....but your brain is working on overtime (and perhaps a few cold ones), so you think....I'll tap 6 ft up with 3/16" and get 6 ft x 0.88" Hg per ft, and end up with 5.28" Hg....pretty good and what a smart boy you are. EXCEPT that you lose that extra 4 ft of head pressure in the tree by tapping 6 ft high instead of 2 ft high, so your net result is no gain in vacuum at all. Now if you normally tap 6 ft high with buckets (pretty unusual) then maybe you'll gain a little with 3/16" drops, but otherwise....no.


Ok learning a lot here about 3/16. so I'll do my first tap up high so it gets the vacuum going. Here's my next question. Would a 5/16 be better and run a shurflow pump? Would I get more with a pump? Guess trying to get the most bang. For my buck without setting up a vacuum pump although in the future I could set up a smaller vacuum pump as this isn't far from the sugarhouse and I could run lines in the future to connect all the maples around the sugarhouse.

[RileySugarbush]

I have a shurflo at the bottom. So 17 to 20 in Hg at the outlet and better as you go up. Bonus....pump can transfer sap from local tank to main tank 200' away (slowly) through 5/16 while sucking on 3/16!

[Gratefulmaple]

That makes a lot of sense.

[Gratefulmaple]

Riley What shurflow pump do you use?

[RileySugarbush]

120 vac. 4008. Some say the 12v last longer but I have power available so I'm try this out.

[Aa2tn]

We set up our first 3/16 run on Saturday. We have 32 taps on it with 20'+ of drop overall. We started tapping on Sat around 11am. We got there Sunday morning at 10am to get the sap and the 55 gallon drum was overflowing!! I checked the vac gauge at the last tree and it was reading 17hg. I am pretty happy with that, especially considering how much easier it is to run the tubing .....

[BSD]

I'll chime in with my 3/16 results and vacuum info

I have over 50' of elevation from tap to tote, the last straight runs are right at about 28' of elevation for 3 of the lines, the other has a -5' climb before crossing over a roadway. The first day i ran 84 taps and netted 110 gallons of sap with zero vacuum. I didn't have the gauges hooked up properly at the tops of the lines and there was an open port venting the lines. 84 taps @ 110 gallons is 1.3 Gallons per tap. Day two, when i discovered the venting problem, my collection jumped to 210 gallons on 105 taps, so i went to 2 gallons per tap. This is on 4 lines, one line is running nearly 25" of vac and the others range from 10-15". I do have some leaky taps that are killing my vacuum on some of the lines, but it is still working. The vacuum boosts sap yield significantly (we all know that). but even 3/16 without making vacuum is very efficient.

It's pretty amazing to watch sap climb uphill on natural vacuum, no pumps.

[Tap&sap]

I understand the tail part and how the vertical drop is important after the last tap, my question is how much of a drop do i need between taps. I have a fairly flat sugar bush, but i do have a decent drop near the bulk tank. Does each tap need to be lower than the previous tap, or do they need to be atleast even. My plan is to tie a bunch together in the flat area and use my slope as the tail on the line

[Cedar Eater]

I understand the tail part and how the vertical drop is important after the last tap, my question is how much of a drop do i need between taps. I have a fairly flat sugar bush, but i do have a decent drop near the bulk tank. Does each tap need to be lower than the previous tap, or do they need to be atleast even. My plan is to tie a bunch together in the flat area and use my slope as the tail on the line

I have the same situation, a flat area up high and then a slope down to the collection point. You do not need a downslope up above, but it helps. One of the beauties of 3/16" tubing is that sap can be pulled uphill by the vacuum, but that comes at a slight cost that the downhill section has to compensate for. If you put a vacuum guage at the top end of your line, you might see that it does not draw as much vacuum as it theoretically should for the amount of elevation change to the bottom of the line. As long as you are still getting vacuum, that doesn't matter, you will still get sap, just maybe a little less than as much as you could if you maintained a continuous downslope.

[Tap&sap]

Thanks, sounds like gradual drop then at first and big drop at end will work well