Reaming holes

[doocat]

I am sure that this subject has been discussed but my search did not come up with a ton of info.
So does anyone have any hard facts on reaming out tap holes? With this cold spell on the way I would like to get a couple of good runs and our taps have been in the better part of 5-6 weeks.

Will we gain sap production, will it affect grade, and how long will it last?

Any first hand knowledge? Thanks.

[powerdub]

I have not had any luck doing that but if you used good tapping practices like cleaning your spouts before you put them in or have new spouts you should not need to worry.

[Maplewalnut]

doocat,

Let me know how you make out. I was debating the same thing last weekend but decided to pull my taps for the year. I am curious to see how you do.

[tapper]

I reamed 40 taps out of 300 to see if there will be a difference. find out in a few days

[softmaple]

ive reamed out my holes lastyear at the end of the season and it worked well for a week i was suprised had enough to make a few more gallons. so this year i taped with smaller ones in the beginingg and went to 7/16 for the end worked real well

[mountainvan]

I reamed holes last week, thurs and fri., and have made 70 gals of syrup since then. I think that if I had'nt done it I would have had very little sap. So for me it is worth it.

[Dave Y]

I see that we are talking about reaming holes. What are the results of retapping. What efects on the trees are there?
Is It worth it. I see almost 10 days of good sap weather coming up. The sugars are not near buds. The reds have poped thoughAnd I haven't made near enough syrup! If I thought it would be worth retapping I would. Im looking for some input.

[markcasper]

Dave, I have never re-tapped and wouldn't recommend it. BUT, there is an exception to every rule. Retapping, drilling a new hole would be something that may be done once in 10 years, in my opinion. If you are conservative in your tapping to begin with, and you think you'd maybe make a third of your total yield after this cold weather, then go for it.

This is one of the whackiest seasons I have ever seen in 23 years of making syrup! So retapping in a whacky season to me would be something worth considering. Heck, I am considering flushing my lines with the anticipation of more. Thats something that I have never had the time or even considered doing until this year.

[mountainvan]

This year I reamed my holes, one bush I tapped in Jan. I've done twice. Everytime I ream I tap a couple more trees, just for such an experiment, and compare the flow. It's almost always the same if you're getting into some new wood when reaming. I would not recommend retapping if reaming is an option.

[Dave Y]

Moutainvan,
when you ream do you put in a larger spile or drive the origanial one in deeper?

[mountainvan]

When I first tapped I went in 3/4" with 19/64 fast bit. Reamed with 5/16 irwin and went in another 1/2-3/4 inch. Personally I would not go from 5/16 to 7/16 because the bit has nothing to keep it from wobbling, no wood in the center, and may make an oval hole. Plus I really like drilling a smaller hole.

[howden86]

I was thinking of reaming but using a drill bit 1/64 larger than the tapping bits

[TapME]

Did mine today. Some of my taps have been in for 6 weeks and had stoped. WOW what a differance some started rightoff and others were slow but temps were high 20's. The bit I used was 1/64th larger. Temps look good for the next week and sap is still clear like water in most buckets, cloudy ones have cleared maybe syrup will lighten.

[Sugarmaker]

I have heard a lot about reaming or re tapping but have never tried it. I Guess I usually run out of wood before we run out of season. Sounds like you guys are having good luck with several methods. Sounds like a good option to extend the season a little longer.

The depth of tapping is of interest to me. I have to assume that for the shallow tap depths you are mentioning the trees are fairly young and the bark is somewhat thin? These big trees that we tap 150 to 200 years old have bark that is approaching 3/4 inch thick. so our drill depth is a total of approx 2-2.5 inches deep.

Regards,
Sugarmaker

[danno]

Trying to decide whether to ream tomorrow. I never have. My taps went in 3rd week of Feb. and I tapped with alcohol. Tap holes are clean (no bacteria sludge) but dry. Had decent sap weather (low's in the low/mid 20's, highs in the upper 40's) earlier this week and almost got no sap. What do you think?

Are you guys reaming clean holes, or just those that are blackish? What causes clean holes to stop producing sap in good sap weather? Have they already started to heal and begun to "scab" over.

[Dave Y]

Danno,
I am reaming all holes, except for red. I did 300 yesterday and will finish the rest today.

[TapME]

Collected 25gaollons from the trees (60) yesterday, this is the most that we have got this season. Reaming the holes must of done the trick. Spent last night boiling until 1am, havn't finished yet. Color changed and at this stage it looks to much lighter that the last batch. Tanks empty and looking to have it full in a couple of days.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

He He He. What you guys did is open up new vessels that haven't been cut open before buy your drilling deeper into the hole. Thus new vessel severed will produce some sap. Certainly if you went from 19/64 to 5/16 there was also a small amount?? of newer severed sap vessels on the outside of the hole then.

[digman_41]

What about tapping different trees for a second run? We pulled our taps 2 weeks ago now it looks like a new season starting! I don't know how to tell if the sap is going to be buddy...I don't see the buds swelling, my boys don't want to clean everything again I think we have a third of a season left.
Have we ever had a wierd season like this in recent years?
I hope there's some one out there with some educated imput.
Thanks Mark

[tapper]

I have been making maple for 12 years and have never seen a year as weird as this one. I am sure if you talk to guys that have been in it for many more years that they would have encounterd years even more strange. Last year was short but pretty much normal. This year was too cold too late then too warm back to too cold again. I have always gone no later than a few days into April then it's too warm here. Not this year. My buckets are still up and I am hoping for the better share of my crop yet to come. I talked to a large producer 50 miles to the east of me this morning. They are done. The sryup turned funny tasting and they made 2/3 their normal crop. Thats the way it is when you go outside to play with mother nature.

[mountainvan]

Glad to see I'm not the only nut reaming holes to prolong the season. I've been doing it, when necessary, for 14 years and it's always worked for me. As for tapping different trees I don't see why not as long as it's not for just a day or two. I've thought about having another big bush 2,500-3,00ft up which I could tap later. hav'nt got around to it yet.

[tuckermtn]

just got back from reaming out our woods trees- 120+/- taps

about 1/3 or less were still running on their own.

after reaming, 3/4 or more of the taps were dripping again.

used a 1/64 larger bit and tried not to go any deeper into the tree than previously hole.

curious how much it will set the tree back with healing itself...anyone know of any studies on that?

-tuckermtn

[mountainvan]

I don't know of any studies, but in a normal year( no caterpillars) my tapholes are healed by sept. no matter what.

[Dave Y]

I finished reaming my tap holes. Snowinig hard at times. kinda felt like the begining of the season instead of the end. the forecast is calling for almost 15 days of good sap weather starting Tuesday . The reds have budded so I think I will pull those taps. Will have to wait and see if the extra work was worth it. Next weekend is Trout opener here in pa. Would be nice to be making steam when the anglers come to town. May sell some syrup!

[danno]

Well, it looks like we're in this together - reamed all my taps today. Starting from day one all over again - clean holding tanks and evaporator, now waiting for that "1st" run.

Sap won't be enough for me, I need it to lighten up as well. Stuff I bottled yesterday had good taste but was by far the darkest I've ever made. Can't even see through the bottle.

Now I have to figure what I'm gonna do about wood - only have enought for a couple more good boils. Guess it's time to start splitting.

Reamers - keep posting in this thread and let us all know your results.

[tapper]

I checked buckets real quick yesterday. I have one tree that was doing well and before the end of the last run I added a tap to that tree. That bucket was half full and the other 2 were empty. I reamed 40 taps a few days ago and it looks like I better do the rest before the warmup.

[Russell Lampron]

Kevin when I first tapped I only went in 1-1/4". When I reamed them yesterday I went in 1/2" deeper to get some new wood exposed. It is still not as deep as the 2-1/2" to 3" that my father used to drill when he was tapping. The trees should heal up fine. Especially the younger aggressive ones.

Russ

[New Hope Mapleman]

Just curious if any of you guys using tubing had new taps and or extenders/inserts where you were loosing sap flow.

Every year we have had new plastic taps, there was a decent crop-at the least sometimes a bumper crop. The first year they were even old taps, just boiled before we strung the tubing.

Consequently; I am trying to verify the supporting arguments for the extenders/inserts. Don't know if they work or not. Our season isn't over I hope, but it has not gotten above 31 for four days now so I'll have to wait and see. It might hit 35 this afternoon! Not sure much will run then with the ground frozen.
Thanks for your imput.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The new taps I put in this year didn't seem to run any longer than the 3 or 4 year old sanitized taps.

[TapME]

Did all mym holes a few days ago and the results have been fantastic. 60 holes and geting 25 plus gallons each day so far, with a 30+ on one. Fast using up the wood and standing dead wood also. Wood lot is looking better.
Thinking of someline for next year to a tank. Maybe I can come up with a one gallon shopvac vac system. Any thoughts?

[danno]

Hi Dan -

All of my taps are first and second year taps and I had lost all flow before this cold snap. I tapped toward the end of Feb. with alcohol. When I reamed all the tap holes were very clean and 90% were dry. Got up to 35 today, no flow yet. Just waiting to switch on the vacuum tomorrow or Tues.

Was down in your neck of the woods for Easter today. World of differance - winter wonderland up high over the lake. When we drove down at 11:00 am. temp was 25, on the way home at 9:00, temp still 25. I guess no run for you either.

[jdj]

Things are cold and snowy here in northern ny. I have never reemed tap holes out before. We tapped around the 12 of march and I'm hoping the hole aren't dried up. I will find out when the weather warms up later this week. If we don't get any sap we will be done. We haven't got any sap for a week due to weather, but the last good weather we had the trees seemed to run good. Cold weather is better than warm weather for the holes. Best of luck to everyone.

[RileySugarbush]

I've never tried reaming the tap holes before, but with half of my 40 taps running slow or stopped I gave it a try. It worked well, Next year I'm going to tap for my 7/16 spiles a little undersize so I can clean them up like this and have a tight fit.

I have more trees than spiles and bag holders, so I just moved some to new trees and they ran even better, at least at first. I saw my first American Elder leaves today, and that is usually the first sign of the end for me. The sap still tastes clean so I'll give it a couple of days and see what we can get for a last boil. This week is the first week of good temperature swings here all season!

[New Hope Mapleman]

It's always colder in New Hope. When I was a kid and was driven in to school the kids were all jealous that we already had snow and they didn't. It never got above freezing again today. So much for a high of 39. (What does a weatherman know anyway. Spent the day starting a 2nd story on a boathouse on the lake-now if you want to talk about cold. There was at least two inches of ice on the deck around the boathouse.
Hopefully sap will start running again soon or at least let me know it is done. I don't think I will ream any holes. We tried the extenders this year on any previosly installed taps. I'll know soon! It was still running pretty good up to this cold snap.
Stop in when your down here if you got time!
Happy sapping.

[sapman]

This afternoon my wife and I reamed about 160 holes. First time trying this, though I usually consider it. I've never really thought it helps much, but you guys have piqued my curiosity. The first hole we did, seemed to really make a difference, as it was in the mid-30s with some holes running slightly. But all others didn't really show much change. It's a pain on buckets, but hopefully worth it.

Does everybody use a slightly larger bit? I didn't, but wonder if another 64th would help. I went a little deeper, since my holes weren't over 1-1.5" to start.

Please do keep the observations coming!

Tim

[digman_41]

We re-tapped about a dozen trees. Finally got some sap today, we tested it with our sap hydrometer it was 3% we were excited! We fantasized about going to our north facing woods and throw out a couple hundred taps. We were going to be the envy of the area...making a second syrup season! Then I told my son that we better boil some of the sap and make sure it wasn't buddy,the sap was crystal clear. I put a quart or so on the stove and started to boil it, it smelled odd.....it finally looked like syrup so I had him try it. He nearly threw up! He said it tasted something like stomach bile mixed with weeds! I guess 2007 is over here.....theres always next year.
Mark

[danno]

Good idea just doing the quick boil on the stove. Will try that if and when the sap runs after this cold spell.

[danno]

Well, results are in for me. Exact same experience as Mark. First of all - reaming works !!! but my season is over. Before this cold snap, my taps had completely stopped running, even with the cold nights and warm days that we had. Reamed all my taps and today was our first day warm enough for sap - and it gushed! Sap was also crystal clear. Sugar content was the same 1.5% I had for most of the season.

Boiled a gallon on the stove - real light syrup, a little yellowish and real buddy (even though I have no red maples and my buds on the sugar maples are all still tight)!

Anybody in Central New York who wants to make buddy syrup and wants more sap, PM me. I'll be glad to collect for you. I think we'll have plenty over the next week.

[sapman]

Well I'm pretty convinced that reaming is definitely helping, at least on some taps. Some of the better ones don't seem to make much difference, but a few that were completely dry before, started running today at about a drip/second after reaming!

It feels good to actually be doing something this year to see if we can prolong the season a little!

Tim

[mountainvan]

told you so!! glad I could help make you all happy.

[Russell Lampron]

Danno,

Why aren't you boiling it yourself? The price for commercial syrup is pretty good. It would help pay for supplies and repairs.

Russ

[220 maple]

Russell,
I agree, boil it if you got it, they will buy it. I basically trade it for supplies, (jugs, tubing, filter aid, ect....) Last year I had two barrels that netted me around $1000 dollars, The broker paid me one check for my helpers, I pay them 33% of my sales. He cut me another check for a son who was going to New Zealand on a mission trip. I had a pickup load of goodies. All bought with syrup that was so bad that if I would have dumped it on the cows feed they would have run to the other end of the field. We asked one time, what was they going to do with it, The answer was 2% could not cover 98% of corn syrup.
Mark 220 Maple

[danno]

I posted this another thread. I will boil it if I can find a place to sell it. Do you know anybody in central NY (Syracuse area) who will buy buddy syrup in 5 gallon containers.

Does seems a waste to let it go - sap is crystal clear and now that I've reamed my taps, it's running the best it has all year AND the weather forecast is for the best sap weather I've seen all season!

So, where can I sell it! Bascoms is not an option due to distance.

[Russ]

We decided to test the retapping theory... my brother started retapping our pipeline (mostly gravity, some on vacuum) yesterday morning (19/64" tap holes) and noted a huge difference in flow rates from the original tapping done back on March 8-11. Several hours after retapping, the new taps (on bags) were producing 1 drip a second; the old holes were dry. We used vodka as a disinfectant during the original tapping. Sap was clear as our hardwoods haven't budded yet. Today's forecast... up to 5" of snow. Hope to be boiling through to the weekend of April 21-22.

[danno]

Just when you think you're done, they pull you back in! May have just found a buyer for buddy syrup. Russ, does that RO on wheels travel to central NY?

Dan

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Glad you guys have had such good luck with reaming. I have tried it two different times with a slightly larger bit and never had much luck with it. My problem is that it is normally too warm when the trees stop. I never had to worry about buds. The trees normally stop 2 to 3 weeks before buds or more.

[RileySugarbush]

The taps I reamed out are running great with clear sap, with no buds showing on my Sugars. I was planning another boil, but ran a test on a gallon of what I collected last night. I was soon reminded that buddy syrup is one of the worst tastes around. I'll be dumping near 100 gallons and closing up the new sugarhouse.

[Russell Lampron]

Danno,

I'm glad that you found a buyer for your syrup. The RO isn't going to be leaving it's heated room anytime soon though. I am making the lightest syrup that I have made this season here now and can't be taking any road trips.

Russ

[sapman]

Yes, I'm a believer in reaming now! We finished our 500~ taps this am, and sap has run better than ever. Still seems sweet, too. Temps aren't going below freezing again soon though, it looks like.

Danno, just another option on commercial syrup, unless you know now. I believe Countryside Hardware in DeRuyter has a day when they buy for Bascom's. Give Sandy a call at 852-3326. Or Links near Camden have a buyer come in too. Contact is Remi at 245-1269.

Good luck!
Tim

[Fred Henderson]

I just reamed 400 + taps today and it does make a big difference.

[ibby458]

I didn't ream any, but had my hugest gather ever. We picked up 880 gallons yesterday, and there's another 200-220 we COULDN'T gather. I'll be pumping some wood thru the evaporator today!

[sapman]

My wife and I reamed all 500+ taps last Tues. and Wed. Sure glad we did! Had our best collection of the year! We have no doubt reaming made all the difference. She did the few on tubing, and before starting nothing was dripping into the tank, and after one or two trees, it was steadily dripping. And when done (30-40 taps), it was a steady stream!

The sweet that had been in the evaporator 10 days still made nice dark, and Thursday night the syrup lightened to nice med. Still good flavor.

Tim

[danno]

Tim - my reaming was the exact same experience as yours - best run of the season this past week. Only differance is we have stayed commercial. With the price of commercial, I don't mind.

Got a few cords split yesterday so I can keep going. Snowing nicely here now - crazy weather.

Dan

[Johnny Cuervo]

Hi Dan are you getting good flavor? I am near Kirkville (10 miles east of Syracuse) smell and taste has been awful from 4/1 to yesterday.

[New Hope Mapleman]

Yes we are still getting good color and a fair flavor. The flavor is dark, but color was a high end medium. Some smell to the sap yesterday, but it had set about six hours longer than normal as we had a maple festival at our farmers market-cotton candy, cream and candy demos and of course syrup and related item sales. Then just come home and boil a 1400 gallon batch. In bed by midnight!
Dan

[danno]

OK, now I have to do that calcualtion. That 1400 gallon batch would have taken me 28 hours and about 3 cords of wood:)

Dan is about 1000 to 1200 feet higher than me in elevation, and about 20 miles south. He's up there. My sap has had a slight smell of cardboard while boiling. Someone else mentioned that smell, and it's just about right. The sap does not smell in the holding tank. It's cloudy, but clean. No solids.

My syrup has stayed commercial with a good taste, although it's getting a little rough. I have no reds, all sugar maple (I think:)) I don't cook down as frequently as I should.

Dan, we've been 35 degrees all day today with more snow than rain and a sloppy inch at noon. I bet you're in the 20's with a few inches? You might get raked tonight. I've heard up to 30" in your neck of the woods!

[New Hope Mapleman]

Yes, it was about a week and a half ago I told dad this reminded me of 83 ro 84 when we had the April blizzard. I was only 13 or 14 at the time, but we got around 48" Thursday and Friday. My mother had broke her leg and the cast was to come off Friday morning-come 4' of snow or not.

It's right around 32 in the sun and we do have a couple inches of the white stuff coming down. I bet the buds are chilled a bit today!!!!

Got the generator and the skid steer off the jobsite, just in case. It's hard to boil now without power!

This is now officially the latest I have ever boiled. Even though we are right on the border of freezing saps flowing a bit. The vacuum kicked on and its dumping about ever 3 minutes. Nothing to jump up and down about, but these type of days have amounted to alot of our production this year. And to think I thought about moving north!?

I'm glad we've had soo much proof of this global warming or I might get skeptical?!

[danno]

yup, I remember it well - April 5, 1984, I was just telling my wife about it earlier today. I was in college South of Buffalo and we got about 20". School closed for 2 days.

On my best day my releaser does not dump every 3 minutes:). I turned off my vacuum Friday night cause I could not keep up with the sap - boiled the last of it tonight. I'll turn it back on if it starts running tomorrow.