want vacuum for next year

[treefinder]

now all my sugar bush is gravity fed into 3 tanks . but i want to put 2 into 1 at the lowest point. 1 of the lines will have to run just about level to get there and the other will have to go up a hill not to big just alittle ridge but then it drops off to the lowest tank . now will i have to put a ladder there or will it suck enough to pull it up the hill?1 more question what is a wet and dry line systemand how do you hook up? is this more economical to use it that way?thanks a million kevin

[danno]

Kevin - take look at your land carefully. Any way you can drop down diagonally to avoid the slight incline? All you need is a couple degree pitch. I used to collect my sap over a ridge as I thought there was no way to get the sap over the ridge. After careful examination I was able to run the ridge till I hit a dip and made it over the ridge. I was then able to run 2500 feet down to the house all on pitch. No longer collecting up in the woods and was able to hook up the vacuum on electric right at the house - Nice!

Wet line/dry line question: Sap flows in the wet line. An additional dry line comes out of your releaser and runs parallel to your wet line. Occasionally you "T" the dry line line into the wet line. The idea is that sap may bottle up your wet line and reduce the vacuum transfer to your taps, whereas the dry line will have no sap, just vacuum. Most use a slightly larger dry line, then wet. And where the dry line intersets with the wet, there is a peice of PVC and the dry is kept above the wet so the dry does not become wet.

I was considering putting in a dry, but I'm running 19 inches of vacuum at the releaser and not losing any vacuum in the bush. I had a ton of questions when I put my system in Jan/Feb. Everybody was very helpful.

[treefinder]

danno thanks for the info it will help alot.

[royalmaple]

I'll see if I can take some pictures of my tubing and post to give you an idea. Pictures certainly help.

How high does your ladder need to be?

I have several at my house and one thing I have found is to really get the sap jumping up the spider type ladders, I have a valve on the end of all my mainlines top and bottom. I just barely crack the low end valve which is below the ladder. This just barely hisses and that is all you need. That small of a crack in the system does not effect the vacuum at the trees and will really make the sap dance up the ladder. Otherwise it does seem to stall a little and I want to get the sap to the releaser as soon as possible.

[HanginAround]

You can get a mainline air injector... not sure what they cost, but they let a little shot of air in about once a minute or something like that. Sounds like a little air leak will do almost the same thing.

[lmathews]

When you say the low end are you refering to the end of the main line?

[royalmaple]

Yes the end of the mainline that is few feet past the ladder.

[lmathews]

Royalmaple,
If you can get pics of your ladder I would be interested in seeing them.I have built a ladder that is 14.5 ft pick but I did not get a chance to use it.I was told by the Canadian research people that with 16" of vac it would work fine.They did not say anything about running air to assist.
Thank You Lee

[royalmaple]

I took some small video clips and some are of my sap ladders in action.

Goto:

www.youtube.com/royalmaple

Then you can watch the clips.

[mwarren]

Royalmaple-

Great video clips. How many taps do you have total on the vacuum system. From the video clips it sounded like there were sixty on one line and thirty something on the other. Is there more than that. If not do you find it worth it to have the vacuum for that small of a number.

Mike

[royalmaple]

Here at the house it is kinda a project anyway. Most people wouldn't spend the time or money tapping what is here, but I had the lines out so just took a little more tubing and I wanted to test some sap ladders anyway. I only connected about 1/3 to 1/2 of the trees that are already on tubing to vacuum this year. The others are just resting, didn't even have time to drill them.

The neat thing about here is it is all automatic, other than me throwing the switch in the morning to start the pump and priming the transfer pump off the electric releaser. On good runs I am getting about 40-50 gallons of sap here. And keep in mind although I have about 125 tapped here I think. Some are just crap poles that I am going to cut for thinning or expanding my garden so realistically number is lower than that. But I really don't care. And I use the releaser and pump to drain the sap from my van when I get here from collecting. So kind of a bonus to have it running I guess. Nice thing about the vacuum here is it also allows zero collecting time for my trees, so just bonus sap, it all goes directly into the bulk tanks.

[gmcooper]

Matt nice job with the videos!
Mark

[brookledge]

Matt
just wondering why you didn't put check valves on the lines where you put the valves to let air in? If you had a check valve on it and your vacuum shut off or the power went off atleast the sap wouldn't run on the ground.
Keith

[royalmaple]

Keith-

Took me a min to figure out what you meant, but I understand what you mean.

Yes, check valves would work fine to not let the sap come right through the valve. THe governor did a .03 fix and lifted the ends up higher so sap won't come out. But it really doesn't come out more than a very light drip, even when or if the pipe was full a foot or two ahead of the valve. But good suggestion. I actually did buy some check valves for that but wanted to see if I needed them.

[rschoo]

Matt really nice videos. Nice footage of Bigfoot in the distance.

[royalmaple]

Thanks, I got some more I just need to post when I have a spare min.

I have to get some work done. I have been getting way too far behind. Spend too much time BS'ing and neglecting my work.

[Jim Brown]

royalmaple;I see you have a deLaval #73 pump. I just bought one and was wondering how much vac you can pull?I hope to hook it to a 3.5hp motor. Don't know if that will be big enough to run it. Tag says 1000 rpm at 1 horse
How many rpms do you run yours?
Thanks For the advice
Jim

[royalmaple]

Jim-

I run mine on electric motor, and I think mine is 1.5hp. There is no plate on it to tell for sure, but it is a large motor. At least 1hp. The rpm's are right up there too. But with a box fan on it, it stays just warm. You could hold your hand right on it all day. I set the regulator on it so it generally stays right around 19" and no overheating at all.

I am not the expert but I really don't see why that 3.5 engine wouldn't be fine to run it. They are pretty small pumps. I have a 5.5 on my surge piston pump and it will pull 20+ inches at idle. Just not getting the cfms at the lower rpms.

Take it apart and clean it before you use it. And you'll be fine. They are simple pumps. The "Gov" told me how and it is simple to do. If you want send me a pm with your number and I can call you and go over it with you. But really a simple job.

[jdj]

We are planning on putting some tubing up this spring/summer. We have one bush with 600 taps and another with 300 taps. We own the 600 tap woods and are planning on buying a vaccum unit from leader or lappiere. For the 300 tap woods that we rent it is about 2 acres, all sloped on way and are going to try to make a vacuum system??? Any suggestions on what types and size of vacuum pumps work the best (ie. surge, delaval) and what horse power engine(gas or diesel) work best? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Seems that all syrup companies say that milk vacuum pumps won't give you enough lbs at the tap. Is this true? Thanks.
Jason

[Russell Lampron]

The dairy pumps won't pull as many inches of vacuum as the ones the maple suppliers sell but work well for a small number of taps. I pull 18" with my Delaval 73 and run it around the clock a lot of times through the season. My pump is rated for 6 cfm which is enough for 600 taps even though I only have 200 on it now. I get plenty of inches at the tap too. Any dairy pump will work. Just keep it cool and lubed.

Russ

[lmathews]

Just so that you understand,the delaval 73 and all the vac pumps that are in the maple catalogs except the liquid rings are dairy pumps.