RO soap wash water safe?

[Lazarus]

I'm trying to figure out where to put my wash water. My sugarhouse is on a septic system. I can either let wash go down the drain to the septic tank, or drain it outside. My land tilts downhill toward my pond, plus I have chickens and whatnot walking around eating things in the lawn. And ducks playing in puddles.

I currently output eveything except the starting rinse in a 200 gallon tank, which is filled in the process. When I do an acid wash AND a soap wash they seem to neutralize each other perfectly and I feel like I'm ok with either septic or the yard. Is this right?

Many days I just want to do a soap wash. Do I need to neutralize this before it goes down the drain?

Overall I'm really concerned about where these products get washed to, and whether I have to neutralize before I discard them. Like pan acid, which takes a monumenal amount of baking soda to neutralize, and even then I don't know where it's safe to put it.

Any guidelines here?

[Dennis H.]

I dump all my permeate to the yard when I do a rinse.
When I do a soap wash I will neutralize it then send it to the yard. I then will do a long rinse cycle.
I have not noticed any issues with the grass in that area. I use a long garden hose, about 100', to get the water flowing to area away from any place that I do not want a lot of water to be. Our yard is sloped so I have no problem with the hose freezing, it self drains.

I do the same thing when I do an acid wash. I wash, then neutralize, then send to yard.

FYI, I would not send acid or soap wash to the yard without 1st neutralizing them and I would not even think about sending any of them including permeate to septic tank.

[Lazarus]

I definitely don't send permeate to septic. It goes on the ground, or into tanks for use later.

What do you neutralize your soap wash with? Can used pan acid be used for that?

[wiam]

I definitely don't send permeate to septic. It goes on the ground, or into tanks for use later.

What do you neutralize your soap wash with? Can used pan acid be used for that?

I use sodium bicarbonate.

[Lazarus]

Sure sodium bicarbonate will work on an acid to neutralize it, like on citric acid that is used to do an acid wash. But RO soap is a strong alkaline isn't it ? (being lye based). Sodium bicarbonate would only make it even more basic. I was wondering more about what you would use for neutralizing soap to lessen the alkalinity.

[wiam]

Sure sodium bicarbonate will work on an acid to neutralize it, like on citric acid that is used to do an acid wash. But RO soap is a strong alkaline isn't it ? (being lye based). Sodium bicarbonate would only make it even more basic. I was wondering more about what you would use for neutralizing soap to lessen the alkalinity.

That is what state of VT recommends. Works on mine. I use a pH meter. I think it is about 1/2 cup to bring mine to PH 7 after a soap wash.

[Tweegs]

Why not use citric acid to neutralize the lye (alkaline) and vice-versa?

Add a little at a time until the PH is back to 7.

[Bricklayer]

I think Dr Tim posted a while back on how wash water was supposed to be handled. I tried searching for the post but couldn't find it. I'll keep looking.

[wiam]

Why not use citric acid to neutralize the lye (alkaline) and vice-versa?

Add a little at a time until the PH is back to 7.

Sodium bicarbonate is cheaper when purchased in 50 lb bags.

[wiam]

http://vermontmaple.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Procedures-for-neutralizing-maple-wash-water.pdf

[SeanD]

Thanks for posting that.

Sean

[Bricklayer]

Guess I'm going to have to get some baking soda.

[wiam]

Guess I'm going to have to get some baking soda.

I get mine from my local feed dealer. It is used as a feed additive. It comes in large bags. Much cheaper than little boxes at the grocery store.

[Dennis H.]

I tried the baking soda thing at first, used way too much for my liking and too much of a pain in the butt.
I hope I get the chemical names correct here, I am going off or memory.
I got my RO soap from Duda Diesel. It actually is sodium hydroxide. I mix a tsp of this into about 10 gals of water that will give me about a ph of 10-11.
Once done doing a soap wash I will use what I use for an acid wash which is hydrochloric/muriatic acid to neutralize the soap wash. I add a tsp let circulate then check ph and add more till I get a ph of 7.
I let this recirculate for a few minutes and check one last time to be sure ph has not changed from 7.
I then send to drain/yard.
I will then run a long fast rinse thru the RO usually about 150-200 gals of permeate.

Do not forget to change the filter once done with you soap wash. I keep this filter in a bucket of water to be used the next time I need to run a soap or acid wash.

This is the way I do it, if you do not feel comfortable working with these very strong chemicals please find another way.
Besure to wear heavy gloves, goggles, face shield and an apron. These chemicals can cause really bad skin burns.

[Bricklayer]

I tried the baking soda thing at first, used way too much for my liking and too much of a pain in the butt.
I hope I get the chemical names correct here, I am going off or memory.
I got my RO soap from Duda Diesel. It actually is sodium hydroxide. I mix a tsp of this into about 10 gals of water that will give me about a ph of 10-11.
Once done doing a soap wash I will use what I use for an acid wash which is hydrochloric/muriatic acid to neutralize the soap wash. I add a tsp let circulate then check ph and add more till I get a ph of 7.
I let this recirculate for a few minutes and check one last time to be sure ph has not changed from 7.
I then send to drain/yard.
I will then run a long fast rinse thru the RO usually about 150-200 gals of permeate.

Do not forget to change the filter once done with you soap wash. I keep this filter in a bucket of water to be used the next time I need to run a soap or acid wash.

This is the way I do it, if you do not feel comfortable working with these very strong chemicals please find another way.
Besure to wear heavy gloves, goggles, face shield and an apron. These chemicals can cause really bad skin burns.

That's kinda the way I was planning on doing it before I found out about the baking soda. Makes sense though. That way you don't have to put your high or low ph wash water in a separate tank. And it neutralizes your RO also.

Do you use the same filter for washing with soap and with acid?

[Dennis H.]

Yes I do. I remove it only after the long rinse. Place a new filter in the housing and it is ready to go for the batch of sap.

[Bricklayer]

I am stealing your idea. Saves me getting a separate tank. And really when you think about it. When you have your wash water sitting in a tank there is still say 2-3 gallons still sitting in the RO itself that is still high ph or low ph wash water. Unless you chase it all out with permeate into tank. If you just fired it up and rinsed it all out to the ground like a typical rinse cycle you would be dumping wash water for the first couple galllons. Seems much easier to neutralize the whole RO while recirculating it then dumping it. Then it's all same ph.
Great idea
Thanks Dennis.

[Dennis H.]

I do the exact thing when I do an acid wash too, just use the sodium hydroxide to neutralize the hydrochloric acid.