Temperature of sap at the float in the syrup pan

[O3C]

Hi, I would first like to say how much of a help this site and the members have been to me. I have read the archives, done searches and found information that I thought that I would need. Then after I'm done running tubing, tapping trees, or running the evaporator, I come back and reread most of the same threads. They make so much more sense the second time!
I have a new to me 2x6 raised flue. My temperature where it comes out of the flue pan is about 160 or 170. The temperature where it comes from my steam hood into the float on the flue pan is 150. The steam hood is sitting on top of the flue pan , so I really can't see even what is going on. I also have a wood problem, had some dead ash that was cut, but not split. I split and stacked it after Christmas, but have had to add some dryer wood .
So, before the next run, I would like to raise the hood, I can probably go 4-6 inches without having to reset my head tank. I am going to the woods to cut a couple of bucket loads of dead locust, to mix with my ash. What should that temperature be going into the syrup pan ? I was running the flue pan at 1 1/2 inches and the syrup pan about 1 inch. The next boil I am going to try running the flue pan at 3/4 and the syrup at 1 1/2 or 2. I was running the flue at 3/4 but every once in a while i'd press down on the float in the syrup pan, AND I COULDN'T GET ANYTHING TO COME OUT !! Was not having fun with my new hobby. Would appreciate any help, Thanks Ron

[Sugarmaker]

Ron,
Where are you located? Western PA?? city?

Not sure but sounds like you have a pre-heater?
If so then the goal will be 200 F sap temp coming from the preheater.
Temps of coming out of the flue pan should be 212 ish. Not many folks check that. Make sure we understand where your checking this temp.
Raising the hood is not the right thing to do. unless I am missing something? rear hood should set on rear pan. to keep steam in for the preheater. Do you have doors to open to look in the rear hood?

If your pushing down on the float and nothing is coming out from the preheater you may need to vent the highest point on the preheater to remove air trap/ air lock. This is not a good thing to have no sap coming out! You need to fix that soon!

The wood: This spring after syrup season cut and split your 2018 wood to approx wrist size. Make sure its stacked under full cover to keep it dry.

Have fun making syrup!
Keep your sap depths deeper rather than shallower until you become use to the rig and all systems are working delivering sap as it should.
The evaporator is a mechanical system they can work good or be frustrating. Make syrup will teach you some patience too
Regards,
Chris

[O3C]

Chris, I 'm in Beaver Falls , probably an hour and a half away. Was at the Lake Erie Maple Expo last fall, learned a lot. Only reason I was checking that temperature was I don't think my flue pan is getting hot enough. I have doors but they are on top not the sides, so you can't see anything. I still may raise the hood , or at least make it adjustable, until I understand what is going on. The float level that I had problems with is the float on the syrup pan. I'm thinking it may be either sugar sand in the sap pan or maybe it was foaming up in there, I am putting defoamer in at every wood fire. Either way, I can't tell the way it is setup right now. This happened at the same time the auto draw off was having issues and my sap that was coming in to the evaporator had some ice in the line and was not running . Thank goodness for the O- xxxx bucket ! Add to that, my wife stopped in , could see I was having issues, and asked what she could do to help ! I know this morning what that could have been, but I didn't know that last night, she may not stop in there for a while. Thanks for your help, Ron.

[Russell Lampron]

Hi, I would first like to say how much of a help this site and the members have been to me. I have read the archives, done searches and found information that I thought that I would need. Then after I'm done running tubing, tapping trees, or running the evaporator, I come back and reread most of the same threads. They make so much more sense the second time!
I have a new to me 2x6 raised flue. My temperature where it comes out of the flue pan is about 160 or 170. The temperature where it comes from my steam hood into the float on the flue pan is 150. The steam hood is sitting on top of the flue pan , so I really can't see even what is going on. I also have a wood problem, had some dead ash that was cut, but not split. I split and stacked it after Christmas, but have had to add some dryer wood .
So, before the next run, I would like to raise the hood, I can probably go 4-6 inches without having to reset my head tank. I am going to the woods to cut a couple of bucket loads of dead locust, to mix with my ash. What should that temperature be going into the syrup pan ? I was running the flue pan at 1 1/2 inches and the syrup pan about 1 inch. The next boil I am going to try running the flue pan at 3/4 and the syrup at 1 1/2 or 2. I was running the flue at 3/4 but every once in a while i'd press down on the float in the syrup pan, AND I COULDN'T GET ANYTHING TO COME OUT !! Was not having fun with my new hobby. Would appreciate any help, Thanks Ron

First we need to know if your temp measurements are accurate. The temp coming out of the flue pan should be at or within a degree or 2 boiling. Are you getting a good boil in the flue pan? If not you need to find out why you aren't. Is the arch properly bricked? Do you have enough draft for a hot fire?

As far as sap depths go you have to run the flue pan deep enough so that the port that feeds the syrup pan is fully covered with sap. It needs to be that deep to ensure a good supply of sap to syrup pan. Running the syrup pan at 1 1/2 inches or a little more is a good idea until you get used to it. After you get a little more experience you can drop down to an inch but I wouldn't go any lower. There's too much of a risk of burning the pan by going lower than that.

Instead of raising the hood you can find something to stand on to look down through the doors to see what is going on.

[O3C]

Found part of my problem, the pipe coming out of the float in the flue pan came apart, so the sap may not have been traveling on 1/2 of the evaporator. I'll try that idea of looking down through, but before next year I think I can have someone extend the sides down that will be fold up doors. Would be less stressful than wondering what is going on. Thanks for your help, Ron

[treehugger]

Found part of my problem, the pipe coming out of the float in the flue pan came apart, so the sap may not have been traveling on 1/2 of the evaporator. I'll try that idea of looking down through, but before next year I think I can have someone extend the sides down that will be fold up doors. Would be less stressful than wondering what is going on. Thanks for your help, Ron

To get higher preheater sap you'll need to add a damper to the steamhood pipe. The it should be closed just enough to have small amounts of steam coming out of the space where the flue pan and hood meet. But you can only do this if you have an inside drip edge. You'll see a big increase in the efficiency of your preheater.

[O3C]

Just an update on my issues. I fixed the pipe coming out of the float box. I also took the hood off and cut a 4" x 5" hole on both sides of the hood so that I could see into the flue pan. I reinstalled the hood on top of the flue pan. I do have a good boil going and my temperature in the syrup float box is now up to 200. I do have a damper and drip channel in the hood, but before next year, I plan on extending the hood 6 inches and making that a lift up door. I still have wood issues, my plan with the 30 year old dead locust didn't work, I had a draw this morning while boiling, but spent the next 4 hours watching the draw off temperature stay at a little above 200. I finally turned the blower off and went and got the last of the dry wood that was in the barn, restarted the evaporator, and had about 4 draws before I shut down for the night. Good news is I have a good start on wood for next year, I probably have 3 cords sitting there. I am boiling in an old milkhouse and the evaporator is throwing off very little outside heat, I can almost lay my hand on the arch, but I'm only running 600 on the stack temperature, so I'm pretty sure it is the wood. Thanks for the help, Ron

[Russell Lampron]

Are you splitting your wood small enough? It should be wrist size and smaller. With a blower and wrist size wood, even if it's not completely dry you should be getting a higher stack temp.

[maple flats]

It sounds like wood is the biggest issue. The day after you finish up this year, start cutting for next year and split it, then stack it to dry. A cover over to helps but leave the sides open to breath. Do not cover it all with a tarp because that traps the moisture in the wood plus what is in the ground. When you burn wet wood, you must first evaporate the moisture in it before you get any gain. Water does not burn.
How often are you adding wood, what size is the wood (how fine is it split), and what size is your evaporator?

[O3C]

I have a 2 x 6 and am adding wood every 7 minutes, and am brushing the flues before every boil. I have most everything wrist size, if not I resplit while I'm waiting. I have had indoor and outdoor woodburners all my life, and while some could be finicky, none of them come close to this evaporator. That thermometer on the autodraw has taught me lessons in burning wood that I didn't know ! Thanks for the help, Ron

[Sugarmaker]

Ron,
Your doing good! Moving the coals around (stirring) and bringing them to the front of the fire box may help too!
Even damp wood will make syrup eventually!
Sounds like the sap temps are under control.
Just keep hitting at it. Next few days should be good for syrup.
Regards,
Chris

[O3C]

If your tapping sugar's north of me and I'm taping reds south of you, my season will be over before yours, would you be up for a visitor some day when your boiling ? Ron

[Sugarmaker]

Ron,
If you directed that to me, yes I always like to visit with folks. We now have 5 sugarhouses with in 5 miles of me.
You can get my number /directions off my website.
Sugar maples may hold the buds a little longer but the end of the season may be related to warm weather.
I need to go look at the amount of sap out there today. My guess is there is about 320 gallon.
Regards,
Chris