Newbie shurflo, tubing question

[mike103]

So I just installed my first shuflo 4008 to try to persuade about 25 red maples to run. My property only has 2-3% grade. I have 5 5/16 laterals about 50 % full of sap with slow big bubbles moving into a 3/4 inch mainline. Also recirculating the tank to pump input to keep ump wet with 5/16 throttled down to trickle. The mainline does not seem to be moving sap to pump. Should I vent line? Are trees not running enough to backfill mainline? Top of mainline vacuum 15hg. Any thoughts?

[Moser's Maple]

Sounds like you're good to go. If you see racing bubbles that's not a good thing. You don't want to vent cause you'll lose your vac level.

[maple flats]

All sounds good, just wait, there should be good flow in a day or 2, but then it will stop again. Might flow again on the weekend too. In order to get flow it can start at 34-36 but does not get good until over 40 F. Patience, it's hard, but necessary.

[rhwells2003]

Yup agree with the others, your fine. The bubbles your seeing aren't gaps in sap or not full lateral, its gasses being released from the tree. You want those to be slow moving. Your good, nothing to worry about

[sugarwoodacres]

Are you using a releaser, or just a pump and if so what is the setup? i have 2 runs that need persuasion, lol. Thanks

[mike103]

Just a shurflo 4008, vac has dropped down to 8hg, no leaks that I can find, no releaser, prob need to buy a stronger 4048 instead,hopefully get 15-20 hg. Releaser I think would help,just can't justify 500 bucks for a gallon or two or syrup...;) also I forgot to mention I have a 5/16 tube recirculating from collection tank into a 1/2 fitting at my mainline dump. Like John above says it improves diaphragm pump performanceby not running dry...

[RileySugarbush]

Shurflo will work better with more flow through it. If you're trees aren't running, drop an inlet line into your tank and throttle it with a valve to max vacuum. It won't necessarily make the trees run if the weather isn't right, but the vac level should help.

[Cedar Eater]

Please excuse the noob question, my experience with tubing is limited to 3/16" natural vacuum saplines but I might need to add some pumped lines in the future. Are those the proper sized tubes for only 25 trees? I would think that with a small vacuum pump you would want a smaller mainline and smaller laterals.

[mike103]

My understanding is 3/16 is for natural vac good slope only. With vacuum only setup, bigger is better for sap and gas transfer with 5 taps max on laterals if poss. So you could do 5 laterals of 5/16 feeding into saddles staggered on a 3/4 mainline for instance. UVM has a good write up on their site I believe but I don't have link, sorry...

[Ivyacres]

I also have several 5/16 lines running into a 3/4" main about 600' long. The most taps on a lateral is 8 but I don't have any vac on the line. I believe it has about 3% slope so I wonder if a shurflow might help persuade a little more out of the lines. If it is just flowing gravity should I worry it the system is airtight? I put in 3/16 this year in a wonderfully sloped area where I had buckets the last three years and it is pulling up to 25 " of vac.
Thanks!
BC

[Biz]

The 4008 pump should be fine for 25 maples, no need to upsize. You may have a small leak. I have a 4008 pump set up with three 3/16" lines coming in to a star fitting, 39 taps total, no mainline. 30 taps on the longest line. 2/3 of the taps are red maples. I get 22" or at the pump when sap is flowing and higher at the end of the lines, depending on elevation. I have overflowed my 30 gallon barrel twice in 48 hours, great flow over the weekend. So I know my setup works well. I'm thinking you have a vacuum leak. They are almost impossible to detect, for me anyways. I suspected I had a leak so pulled my whole piping assembly upstream of the strainer off and pressurized it to 25PSI using an adaptor to my compressor then submersed it in water and found tiny air bubbles where there was a leak. I re-did all joints using industrial grade teflon tape and a product sold at FW Webb called Gasoila with PTFE (recommended by a poster on MT of course!), that killed all my leaks and doubled my vacuum. I had trouble with stainless fittings more than plastic or PVC ones for some reason. I just helped another guy Sean on MT with a similar vacuum issue and it helped him too.

Also make sure you don't have sag in the 5/16" lines. Doesn't seem to be a problem with 3/16".

Dave

[Cedar Eater]

"My understanding is 3/16 is for natural vac good slope only. With vacuum only setup, bigger is better for sap and gas transfer with 5 taps max on laterals if poss. So you could do 5 laterals of 5/16 feeding into saddles staggered on a 3/4 mainline for instance."

That's why I'm asking. I understand that bigger is better when you have an expectation of enough flow to approach the capacity of your pump, but as a rule of thumb, smaller is better when you have a small pump. You want to maximize the vacuum on your mainline for a given pump and volume of the system seems like it would be an issue.

[mike103]

The 4008 pump should be fine for 25 maples, no need to upsize. You may have a small leak. I have a 4008 pump set up with three 3/16" lines coming in to a star fitting, 39 taps total, no mainline. 30 taps on the longest line. 2/3 of the taps are red maples. I get 22" or at the pump when sap is flowing and higher at the end of the lines, depending on elevation. I have overflowed my 30 gallon barrel twice in 48 hours, great flow over the weekend. So I know my setup works well. I'm thinking you have a vacuum leak. They are almost impossible to detect, for me anyways. I suspected I had a leak so pulled my whole piping assembly upstream of the strainer off and pressurized it to 25PSI using an adaptor to my compressor then submersed it in water and found tiny air bubbles where there was a leak. I re-did all joints using industrial grade teflon tape and a product sold at FW Webb called Gasoila with PTFE (recommended by a poster on MT of course!), that killed all my leaks and doubled my vacuum. I had trouble with stainless fittings more than plastic or PVC ones for some reason. I just helped another guy Sean on MT with a similar vacuum issue and it helped him too.

Also make sure you don't have sag in the 5/16" lines. Doesn't seem to be a problem with 3/16".

Dave
Thank You Dave for strategy troubleshooting, I will try that today, I never thought 25 inches vac possible on 4008. Must be a leak or leaks....

[Biz]

This is the gauge at my pump on the 39-tap line, taken over the weekend.
15572

[maplestudent]

if you still have leaks but don't think it is any of the taps or fittings, you might want to check for squirrel chews. they can be hard to spot. I usually run my bare hand over the tubing to feel them, while also visually checking and listening for hissing sounds too. One tiny squirrel chew can cost you a lot of vacuum.