3/16 Natural Vacuum Questions for Layout

[BSD]

I'm looking for some insight on the best method to tap my new-to-me sugarbush with 3/16. this is my first venture in it and understand the basics (at least i think i do).

Please see my crude sketch to get a visual for what i'm hoping to do.
15236

I have many many trees to tap from above my road crossing level which will be +29FT vertical over the collection tank. This will be my "low tap line", no real question there. There are however maybe a dozen trees or so that are "Low Trees" as indicated on the drawing. I still need to get my lazer out there to shoot hard elevation numbers, but i think i could get many of them tapped around +24 FT over the tank (+8 FT over the road). Is there a way to get that 5' of elevation to get up and over the road? i need to hit 13' to provide clearance for trucks going onto the properties. there is sufficient drop after the road crossing (24 FT) to get a good vacuum, but will it pull it up and over without mechanical assistance?

[RileySugarbush]

I plan on running up and over my driveway. On 3/16, I believe I will have no problem with it siphoning. The low trees will have lower vacuum, but the dip should not affect the trees above.

[maple flats]

BSD, that should give you close to 14-15" vacuum on the lower section and everything above that 29' elevation should get the highest vacuum your elevation above sea level can get. Just use long runs, start at your high point and tap the trees while you go down. You can put up to about 30 taps on each line (tests show good at 37, but that is pushing it on real good flow days). Most seem to agree 20-30 max. Someday if you want to improve it even more, add a vacuum pump (even a diaphragm pump) and you can get max vacuum on it all.

[BSD]

BSD, that should give you close to 14-15" vacuum on the lower section and everything above that 29' elevation should get the highest vacuum your elevation above sea level can get. Just use long runs, start at your high point and tap the trees while you go down. You can put up to about 30 taps on each line (tests show good at 37, but that is pushing it on real good flow days). Most seem to agree 20-30 max. Someday if you want to improve it even more, add a vacuum pump (even a diaphragm pump) and you can get max vacuum on it all.
No questions on the long high runs. i should have around 5 runs of 25-30 each that can hit that 29' mark before going over the road. I was planning on leaving the "low trees" on a separate run, but should i tie them into a few trees that are from way up over 29' and will it siphon up and over the raised accessway crossing? I think it would? i realize it'll cut vacuum down a bit, but not worried too much about one run out of 5 being lower. If that is the case, should i only put 1-2 trees +29ft trees be enough? or do i need more to generate a full column of sap?

[maple flats]

With too few trees it will still work but will take far longer to start because the 3/16 method only gets the vacuum from having a column of sap for gravity to pull. With just 2 taps you could lose an hour maybe even 2 that 10 or more taps would be pulling that much sooner. However, this would only be true on day 1, because after that the sap is left in from the previous day and as soon as things thaw you will again have vacuum. The other issue would then be the cost to install a 2 tap line will only be divided by 2 so your cost/tap will be higher, especially if the lateral is very long.

[DrTimPerkins]

I think this approach (red line in the diagram below) would produce better results and be far easier to implement, especially if you have more taps above where you indicate "Sugar Bush" with the arrow. Just be sure that the riser line is not more than about 15' (shouldn't be a problem if you tap about 5' up and only need to get to 13' across the road.

The problem with this approach is that if you have a leak so your vacuum is not real high, it won't function well, or at all (depending upon where and how big the leak is).

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[maple flats]

If that road is private 13' might do, if public you need 16' (in the US at least), commercial traffic needs 14' even on private driveways and parking lots. Be sure to get whatever you need in height and allow for some sag when filled with sap.

[BSD]

I think this approach (red line in the diagram below) would produce better results and be far easier to implement, especially if you have more taps above where you indicate "Sugar Bush" with the arrow. Just be sure that the riser line is not more than about 15' (shouldn't be a problem if you tap about 5' up and only need to get to 13' across the road.

15242

Thanks for the insight. do you have an idea what it (perfect scenario) would pull for a vacuum in your setup? I will likely have 5 lines of 25/30 that come down the mountainside that will be straight across the road and down not including the low trees with less drop. Should i aim to put a full 25-30 trees on the line that would drop down in the low tree's area? and then lift over the road? maybe 50-50 for the split for trees above the road crossing level? just trying to keep vac at a maximum for as many trees as possible.

[BSD]

If that road is private 13' might do, if public you need 16' (in the US at least), commercial traffic needs 14' even on private driveways and parking lots. Be sure to get whatever you need in height and allow for some sag when filled with sap.yes, private property, one house in the back. 13' will clear oil and fire trucks. no way anyone is getting a 13'6" truck back there.

[DrTimPerkins]

... maybe 50-50 for the split for trees above the road crossing level? just trying to keep vac at a maximum for as many trees as possible.

Yes, about a 50:50 split of trees above the road and below the road would be good. The closer to the road on the downhill side the better.

[BSD]

thanks DrTim. I took my lazer transit over to the site this afternoon and was able to get a few elevations measured before dark. i will have 15.5' drop from the road level crossing to the tank (19' to terra firm); plus 13-13'6" over the road. which puts me at 28-28.5' total elevation drop for 90% of the trees. pretty much the perfect setup I think. I wasn't able to get any measurements on the low trees in question tonight, but will work on that another day. I also have to go set a 2% slope for another section in one of the flatter sections.

It's all coming together rather nicely so far