Tell Me My Plan is Stupid

[Upland]

Long time listener first time caller,
I am planning on getting into the maple business and would like to start off small. Am just doing a 10 or so taps this year for fun but next year would like to get a small evaporator. The kicker is that my sugar woods is about an hour round trip from where I would be boiling, for now. Hopefully in next 5-7 years move back to where my sugar woods are. So anyways up until a couple months ago was planning on just doing 100 taps on 3/16, and ripping up after work with a tank on the truck and come back home and boil. But as one is want to do, keep trying to justifying getting bigger, say the 300-500 range where I could actually sell some. Transporting this much that far is pretty stupid right? Obviously could RO at sugar bush but cant justify it time wise. So I should be content with tapping 100 or so, and get all caught up on my thinning in preparation for my move and expand from there, right?
Thanks in advance!

[sugarman3]

I have been doing maple for 50 yrs and traveled 45 min one way since 1981,had to move because of job,BUT wouldn't give it up for anything.Started out with35 buckets and a 3by9,now 3000,ro's,vacumn,and a 4 by 12 ,plus filter press and canners,just luv it

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

the drive is the same amount of time whether its 100 taps or 500, just a little longer pumping it on your truck

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Sorry but you're more likely to find folks on here to come up with reasons to do it rather than not.......we all have the same sickness. Plenty of people transport much larger quantites, you need to figure how much time you'll have to know whether or not you can do it.

[medic5794]

I tap trees at my in-laws property about an hour and 45 minutes away. I have about 175ish taps set up on gravity tubing on red and silver maples (poor producers). I let the tubing run into 18 gallon containers. I go through the woods and collect the sap out of the containers into 5 gallon buckets and haul them back that way. I have smaller collection containers than I need so I don't collect too much as I don't have enough time to process it all at the moment. It takes me about an hour to go through the woods and collect. All in all it's a 5 hour process collecting and hauling. I'm able to sell small amounts of syrup (enough to pay for gas and equipment). I RO and cook down at home. It's not an economical way to do it but it keeps my wife happy (as I don't spend multiple days away from home). Any time you have to haul sap it's not economical but it's not all about the money. It's about doing what you love. I dunno if this helps at all but that's just the way I do it. I would be happy with an hour drive. If you have any questions let me know.

[johnpma]

There is more to it than just pumping it into a tank then into an evaporator and viola you have syrup. You need fuel for your evaporator which can consume time you need a finishing plan and a bottling plan certainly can be done if you do your homework and dedicate time You could always tap 500 and sell sap to larger outfits in your area or even have larger outfits do your excess boiling just my 2 cents

[barnbc76]

I believe if you look in the "business side" section of this messageboard you will see similar posts. Is this your first year doing maple syrup? I know I would be overwhelmed if I tried to make that jump, but I notice many people here do.

If I were going to step things up I would probably calculate how much time I had available then base how many taps to run based on that. How big an evaporator/ RO and figure out how many gal/hr you will be able to do, round down because things seem never to be ideal. Then there is also the mater of how much money you have to spend, it is more expensive then it seems at first, always estimate higher for cost. Don't forget to make a break even point, you might not decide to go all the way through with it if you find out it will take you 2 or 3 years to hit it. Ask yourself, if I dont actually end up making much money doing this spending 80 hrs and 1000's of $ or something like that will I regret trying to do this? If you answer I love doing this and will still love it then you will at least have not lost much. You mentioned that you might try moving closer to your sugar bush in the future, by making your business bigger and bigger perhaps that will cause you to make hasty decisions (I know I will always look for another good reason to do something I already wanted to do but sometimes things that are fun cloud my judgment when concerning more important things. So many posibilities, I would start slow, but I would talk to others with much more experience on the matter.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Upland If it helps I travel 1300 miles one way to get to my sugar shack. Now I want you to take a walk around your neighborhood and find someone that has a $50,000.00 bass boat who fancies himself a professional angler. Ask him how far he travels to compete in tournaments and what the entrance fee is. See if his wife and kids go along with him or help in any way. Then nask him if he has sold any fish yet. Then ask him when he expects to break even and start turning a profit.

You used the term " getting into the maple business " I have been making this trip every year for 28 years and I started out with a fish kettle in the driveway and 30 taps and after that many years I still havent turned a profit and I sure as heck have way more invested than a good bass boat. This is all my fault but I wouldn't trade it for a all expense paid trip to Hawaii for the 45 days.

I warn you not to try and start a business under your conditions but learn everything you can about the sport of maple production so when your able you can start your business. Good lusk and have fun.

[Michael Greer]

Start small. Team up with someone who has been at it for a while. Help out and learn how the whole process actually works. There is always room for growth, but the reality is that you do what you can afford to do first.

[billyinvt]

100 taps on 3/16 with some natural vacuum could easily have you with 250 plus gallons of sap in a short period of time. I' don't know what your truck's cargo capacity is or what sort of road you'll be on, but 2000 lbs of sloshing liquid can make for some pretty hairy driving.

[Waynehere]

Wow. This thread sure makes me really, really, really appreciate my sapshack and bush right in my backyard. My wife use to complain about me being down there all the time tinkering until she got into her own hobby now. LOL It is definitely a passion that can take over your life if you let it. Not saying that is a BAD thing though.... :lol:

[MapleMark753]

Just about any plan is better than no plan, so nothing in what you want to do sounds stupid to me. Except, your few taps just for fun THIS season. I'd just suggest tripling that amount this year so you can get a head start on day to day planning and managing your sap to boil. Having just a tad too much is a good problem even in your first season. What are you going to be boiling on this year? Enjoy your endeavor, you're probably hooked already.

[berkshires]

Long time listener first time caller,
I am planning on getting into the maple business and would like to start off small. Am just doing a 10 or so taps this year for fun but next year would like to get a small evaporator. The kicker is that my sugar woods is about an hour round trip from where I would be boiling, for now. Hopefully in next 5-7 years move back to where my sugar woods are. So anyways up until a couple months ago was planning on just doing 100 taps on 3/16, and ripping up after work with a tank on the truck and come back home and boil. But as one is want to do, keep trying to justifying getting bigger, say the 300-500 range where I could actually sell some. Transporting this much that far is pretty stupid right? Obviously could RO at sugar bush but cant justify it time wise. So I should be content with tapping 100 or so, and get all caught up on my thinning in preparation for my move and expand from there, right?
Thanks in advance!

I'll give you honest feedback: I think dreams are great, but it sounds like you need to focus more on the here and now. You'll learn so much from doing it, it will completely change your plans about how to accomplish what you're hoping for in the future.

You plan to tap ten trees this year, right? What are you boiling on? You say you don't have an evaporator. I hope you're not planning on boiling in your kitchen. 10 taps could easily produce 200 gallons of sap. You boil that in your kitchen, and it'll strip all the paint off all your walls. That, and at a gallon or two per hour on your stove, that's one or two hundred hours. And it sounds like you have a full-time job.

I'm not saying you can't tap 10 trees, but you better have a good plan for *this* season, before you start planning for the future.

Cheers!

[eustis22]

# of taps is directly proportional to size of evaporator divided by the amount of free time you have to boil plus the amount of fuel you have on hand.

[motowbrowne]

# of taps is directly proportional to size of evaporator divided by the amount of free time you have to boil plus the amount of fuel you have on hand.

This equation is missing beer and pizza.

[McAllister farm]

Long time listener first time caller,
I am planning on getting into the maple business and would like to start off small. Am just doing a 10 or so taps this year for fun but next year would like to get a small evaporator. The kicker is that my sugar woods is about an hour round trip from where I would be boiling, for now. Hopefully in next 5-7 years move back to where my sugar woods are. So anyways up until a couple months ago was planning on just doing 100 taps on 3/16, and ripping up after work with a tank on the truck and come back home and boil. But as one is want to do, keep trying to justifying getting bigger, say the 300-500 range where I could actually sell some. Transporting this much that far is pretty stupid right? Obviously could RO at sugar bush but cant justify it time wise. So I should be content with tapping 100 or so, and get all caught up on my thinning in preparation for my move and expand from there, right?
Thanks in advance!

Do you plan on building a sugarhouse at the sugarbush some day? If you do you would want to plan out you lines to run to the sugarhouse if the lay of the land allows for that. And another thing to keep in mind is that you make your money in the woods not the sugarhouse the more time spent checking lines means more sap too the sugarhouse.

[Upland]

Thanks for everyone's response. I had been doing a business plan for my 500 tap plan and reading it just didn't seem to make much sense, mostly because will limited in how much I can transport at a time(have a half ton and wont be able to use a trailer). So think Ill go back to my original plan of starting off with 100 taps something like a lapierre mini pro. Can start this set up with out borrowing any money and keep chipping away at getting the future sugar camp set up. I joined the local maple producers association last year and have popped in on a local producer from time to time to help with tapping and boiling. I guess was half trying to go semi big early to was to get used to the business side of things and navigating the government programs available to farmers here. But taking things one step at a time has worked for me in the past so should stick with that.

Dont worry MapleMark 753, I bought a couple microwave's so just gonna set em on high and check on em between beers/pizza slices, haha.

Anyways thanks again for the feedback, Im sure it wont be that last time!

[bowtie]

The big thing about transporting sap is the time, it takes my father in law and I about 2 -2 1/2 hrs to collect and pump, then a 20-25 minute drive home, 15-20 minutes to get set up to pump into tank and then I can start boiling, if you have to do this after work it can make for long days. Hopefully next year I will be going to tubing to save the collection time. Would love to be able to boil where I tap, maybe some day. To everyone who taps,collects and boils at home be grateful. It is so much easier to walk out your door and start boiling than to have to drive to get started. All in all it is fine to plan down the road but get started and see how much time you have and are willing to dedicate to maple, and don't look past the real reason you are starting, for the fun, if not it is just a second job, and for small producers a low paying one.

[5 Oaks]

Thank you for this thread! I thought i was insane (ok, ok maybe i am). I drive a 2.5 hour round trip, daily, to get 110 gals of sap. Guess its good to see that others also do this. Makes me feel a little less crazy, or maybe I am just average crazy. Either way, I don't feel so bad now!