Installing 5/16" tubing

[mspina14]

First time installing tubing today.

Was a little more difficult than I thought.

My son and I started by holding 500 feet of 5/16 tubing, starting at the last tree and walking through the woods to the diaphragm pump (Lunchbox).

The tubing kept getting tangled and twisted. So we used an old, rusted garden hose holder on wheels, turned it upside down, and that worked better!

We did 2 runs of 500 feet each. Have 2 more 500 foot runs to do tomorrow.

We used some rope twisted round the tubing every 100 feet or so to keep it taught.


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[Bricklayer]

I used the lunchbox last year for the first time and was really impressed with it. You have to make sure you have a super tight no leak system or it will cycle and you won't get any vacuum. Be careful when you put your taps in not to seat them to deep and crack the wood. When you have a leak you will know it by the sound of the pump.

I had the same problem last year with having long 5/16 lines and trying to keep them tight. Every 5 trees or so I put a t with the hole in it to put a nail. I put a wire through a piece of garden hose and put it around tree and connected it to the tee. Keeps the line super tight. At my last tree near the lunchbox I used all end tees with a tube hook, piece of 5/16 around the tree to hold it. If you don't use an end tee you will get sap in the line going around the tree. End tees have one end blocked. I ended all lines at the same tree and down to the lunchbox. I used a 6 way star on the lunchbox and put 8" of tubing on each one then a 5/16 quick connect. This allows you the disconnect the pump if need be to bring it in. I used quick connects on the air line and pump line also.

I've seen hollow core rope used to hold tuning tight but I'm sure once your tubing is full and it gets a bit wet your rope will let you down. Last thing you want to be doing is spending another day in the bush redoing your tubing while the sap is running.

[mspina14]

I used the lunchbox last year for the first time and was really impressed with it. You have to make sure you have a super tight no leak system or it will cycle and you won't get any vacuum. Be careful when you put your taps in not to seat them to deep and crack the wood. When you have a leak you will know it by the sound of the pump.

I had the same problem last year with having long 5/16 lines and trying to keep them tight. Every 5 trees or so I put a t with the hole in it to put a nail. I put a wire through a piece of garden hose and put it around tree and connected it to the tee. Keeps the line super tight. At my last tree near the lunchbox I used all end tees with a tube hook, piece of 5/16 around the tree to hold it. If you don't use an end tee you will get sap in the line going around the tree. End tees have one end blocked. I ended all lines at the same tree and down to the lunchbox. I used a 6 way star on the lunchbox and put 8" of tubing on each one then a 5/16 quick connect. This allows you the disconnect the pump if need be to bring it in. I used quick connects on the air line and pump line also.

I've seen hollow core rope used to hold tuning tight but I'm sure once your tubing is full and it gets a bit wet your rope will let you down. Last thing you want to be doing is spending another day in the bush redoing your tubing while the sap is running.

Thanks Bricklayer for the advice. Very helpful to a 1st timer like me.

I have a question. What's an end "T"?

I have the following 5/16 inch fittings shown below:

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I use the one on the lower left to secure the tubing around the last tree on the line. Do you have a photo of an end "T" with a tube hook that you use at the end of the line at the Lunchbox you can share?

I also have a 6 way star fitting on the lunchbox:

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Not sure I will be using all 6 nozzles this year. I bought a couple of 5/16 clear "plugs" to cap off the nozzles I won't use (see first photo, lower right).

Also, what does the 5/16 "quick connect" look like that you're using on the end of the line at the Lunchbox?

Any help greatly appreciated.


Mark

[unc23win]

An end T looks the T you have only one side is plugged off and they have the hook like you are using on the other side. They basically are a T and end line hook in one piece. A 5/16 quick connect is black two pieces that you push together and turn to lock.

[Haynes Forest Products]

If you install the fitting all the way up over both barbs you will no be able to pull the fittings off. I have hooked 5/16 tubing on the rack of my ATV and streached the tubing till it snapped so its strong as heck.

OK if your not using a tubing tool and want to keep things tight walk the woods dropping the pre made drops on the ground on the side you want the line to go. Start by attaching your 5/16 line with an end line fitting and walking your tubing out and around your trees. Give it a good look over and make any changes you need. Start at the end line and pull the line as hard as you can and walk to the collection site. Now when I say hard I mean pull it tight as possible. Now if you have long runs between tap trees and there some small saplings zip by it for support sap is stupid it wont know you did this. Now tie the line off at the collection end and now re walk the line marking the place you want your drop to be cut in. I found after 30 years and replacing my entire system 3 times over the years that having the T cut in about 8" away from the tree on the uphill side of the tree is the best FOR ME. This will allow you to tighten the system over time and the t will get closer to the tree instead of further. Plus your T wont get bent against the bark Because I use a tubing tool and this is the best way to not be fighting the tree during the process. I replace my taps every year my drops get a little shorter every year so make the drops long enough but not so long that they snake all over the place. Now that you marked the spots on your 5/16 take the pressure off and cut in all your drops. Now go back to the collection area and pull it tight and walk it till its at the right grade and sag free.

[Bricklayer]

I get my fittings from CDL and the end tees are always blue in colour so the don't get put in by mistake. My neighbour helped me last year put some tubing in and he put multiple end tees in the middle of some lines. Had to go change them out mid season after walking the lines and noticing it.

[Bricklayer]

I used this contraption last year that I cobbled together last minute. I was running the tubing myself and was finding it hard to keep it tight. I added the clamps but after to cut in the drops I used it for a couple days without them to keep the ends of the line tight. Basically what i did was like Haynes said attach last tap with end tee. Walk with tubing through bush. Get it as tight as I possible could with my 240 pounds pulling as tight as possible. Then wrap the strap around tubing a couple times till it holds then attach other end around tree and pull till it's like a guitar string attach the end tee pointing down to the lunch box and attach it to tree. I then added the clamps to the setup to cut drops in. Works pretty slick. I forget what the clamps are for but my neighbour is a hydro lineman and he gave them too me. Perfect size for tubing.
I might go to the bush tomorrow I will snap some pics for you.

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/bottenhof/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/40DC3DA6-103F-4D25-933B-A56C970E5A5A_zpsnlh0xfez.jpg (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/bottenhof/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/40DC3DA6-103F-4D25-933B-A56C970E5A5A_zpsnlh0xfez.jpg.html)

[mspina14]

I used this contraption last year that I cobbled together last minute. I was running the tubing myself and was finding it hard to keep it tight. I added the clamps but after to cut in the drops I used it for a couple days without them to keep the ends of the line tight. Basically what i did was like Haynes said attach last tap with end tee. Walk with tubing through bush. Get it as tight as I possible could with my 240 pounds pulling as tight as possible. Then wrap the strap around tubing a couple times till it holds then attach other end around tree and pull till it's like a guitar string attach the end tee pointing down to the lunch box and attach it to tree. I then added the clamps to the setup to cut drops in. Works pretty slick. I forget what the clamps are for but my neighbour is a hydro lineman and he gave them too me. Perfect size for tubing.
I might go to the bush tomorrow I will snap some pics for you.

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/bottenhof/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/40DC3DA6-103F-4D25-933B-A56C970E5A5A_zpsnlh0xfez.jpg (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/bottenhof/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/40DC3DA6-103F-4D25-933B-A56C970E5A5A_zpsnlh0xfez.jpg.html)

That's quite an interesting contraption you have their Bricklayer! Looks like it would work perfectly to keep the tubing tight. I just don't know where one would find the fittings necessary to make that work for me. If you have a source, let me know.

My 25 year old son and I tried to attached the drop "T"s to the trees using metal wire. We put the wire inside of clear plastic tubing to protect the tree:

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It didn't work so well. We couldn't keep as much tension on the tubing as we did yesterday using the braided rope trick.

Is there some better way to attached the plastic drop "T" to the tree and maintain tension on the tubing so it doesn't sage?

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We don't have a mainline. So we're running the 5/16 tubing from tree to tree. The runs are 500-750 feet in length. We have very little slope on our land. In some cases, we have 50-100 feet between Red Maples, so I'm trying to keep the tubing from saging as best I can.

Thanks again for all your advise.


Mark

[Bricklayer]

End of line hooks like the one in the bottom of you picture of your tubing fittings work wonders. You can make side ties to keep tubing tight. Or use them to take sag out by connecting it to a passing tree. I used hundreds of them last year. Slide fittings can be used too but you can't install them once the line is up without cutting. When I get home tonight I will look for some more pictures. I'm sure I got some ideas last year from a thread here though. I'll look if I can find it

Found a post with some pictures not the one I was thinking of but good reading for the time being.

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?24464-How-to-keep-5-16-line-tight&highlight=5%2F16+tubing+tight

[wurmdert]

Im selling and using these new sliders from Sap Stars. They make them for both the wire end and the end of line. You dont have to cut your tubing to tighten. Just open the wedge lock, pull the line tight, and reinstall wedge lock. http://www.dsdstars.com/images/20A05-188-K_BIG.png

[Bricklayer]

Looks interesting. How does it work? Any pictures/video?

[johnpma]

I use a fitting like this at the top end of my 5/16" run

https://www.leaderevaporator.com/p-46-516-end-y-barbed-plastic-tubing-fitting.aspx

I then pic a tree past my last drop, and past where my collection tank will be. I "Chinese handcuff" my tubing with hollow braided nylon rope. I tie a loop in the rope and use a ratchet strap (one end around a tree and the other end through the loop in the rope) to tighten my tubing. As the temps rise I can tighten the ratchet strap to take out any sag in my lines Pretty basic and works well

For got to mention I feed my tubing back out through the nylon rope and down into my holding container.

I go tree to tree with my 5/16" and my longest run is maybe 100 feed or a dozen taps of so per run

[mspina14]

OK. Just got a bunch of fittings from Bascom's. I figured I'd play around with them to see which ones will work best on my 5/16 tubing runs.

I can figure how they all work except for this one below:

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It looks like you can slide it over the tubing after the tubing has been installed. But how does it help to keep the line tight?

Thanks for any help.


Mark

[McAllister farm]

OK. Just got a bunch of fittings from Bascom's. I figured I'd play around with them to see which ones will work best on my 5/16 tubing runs.

I can figure how they all work except for this one below:

15102 15103 15104

It looks like you can slide it over the tubing after the tubing has been installed. But how does it help to keep the line tight?

Thanks for any help.


Mark

Those are made to hook To your mainline wire with your 5/16 line

[Super Sapper]

If you look at the last picture you can see that the fitting has a taper and as the tubing is pulling through it will wedge the fitting tighter.

[Clinkis]

As mentioned you can use them to attach you 5/16 to your main line wire but they can also be used at the other anchor end. There is a hook the you can get for them that allows you to go around your last tree and attach back to the tubing like end anchor fitting but the nice thing about these is you can take thee down and tighten them up or remove them if you need to. You can also put a piece of wire around a tree and attach fitting to that if you re not using mainline. These fitting are great I use tons of them because they allow you to easily adjust and tighten your laterals and I also have some laterals I have to take down at the end of the season. If you check on utube there is a video by lapierre that shows how to use these fittings.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I couldn't do my system without them. The key to a good tight system is to not use used taps and T's that you went after with a utility knife in a fit of rage. and then keeping the lines tight. Once your laterals are up and around all the trees pull the line as tight as you need it and then mark where you want the mainline hook . Once installed even slightly you wont be able to slide it so plan it out.

[wurmdert]

Here is an example of the end of line hook slider. I put my vacuum gauge on the end of tube. Just remove the wedge block if you want to adjust line tension and then put it back in place when desired tension is achieved. I sell these for end of line or with wire hook for .50 each plus shipping
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[mspina14]

Here is an example of the end of line hook slider. I put my vacuum gauge on the end of tube. Just remove the wedge block if you want to adjust line tension and then put it back in place when desired tension is achieved. I sell these for end of line or with wire hook for .50 each plus shipping
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Thanks. That picture is worth a thousand words!

I need to get the slide fitting with the hook on the bottom.

In the picture, is your vacuum gauge connected to the end of the tubing line to the right of the tree?


Mark

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Those are pretty neat, thanks for posting.

[mspina14]

I purchased the vacuum gauge below to check the vacuum on my 5/16 tubing system.

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I have a total of about 2,500 feet of tubing in 3 separate lines running off a Lunchbox releaser/diaphragm pump. The tubing lines connect to drop lines and taps for about 100 red maples.

I bought the vacuum gauge to check the vacuum at the end of each line, to make sure the vacuum was consistent throughout the system.

As you can see from the photo above, the vacuum gauge has a 1/4" NPT male connection on the bottom. I was going to buy an adaptor with a 1/4" NPT female connection on one end, and a 5/16" barb fitting on the other. I thought I would check the vacuum with the gauge by removing the the tube fitting out of the end of a line, sticking in the barbed end of the gauge, take a vacuum reading, remove the gauge, and replace the end line fitting.

After putting up all the tubing, I've come to realize it near impossible to disconnect a barbed fitting once it's been installed in plastic tubing. The only way I've been able to remove a fitting that's been installed in tubing is to cut it out.

I don't really want to cut out the end line fittings every time I want to take a vacuum reading.

Is there a better way?

thanks in advance.

Mark

[wnybassman]

As soon as you make a break in the line, your vacuum is gone anyway, unless you were going to wait for it to build back up again. I guess the better way would to have a gauge installed on each line all the time.

[wurmdert]

I purchase vacuum gauges for the end of each lateral on 3/16 and mount permanently. They are only 3 or 4 bucks and great for trouble shooting. If you are set on using one gauge you can use our multifunction cap
which I have attached a photo of15137

[Clinkis]

Your best to leave them plumbed in permanently at the end of each line. Not sure where you got your gauge but I get them from my Lapierre dealer for about $6 a piece. For that price hardly worth the hassle to attach/disconnect them. I have Vac gauges in each section of my sugar bush and I can drive around on my snowmobile and check them without even getting off it. If I see a probably I get off and look closer.

[mspina14]

As soon as you make a break in the line, your vacuum is gone anyway, unless you were going to wait for it to build back up again. I guess the better way would to have a gauge installed on each line all the time.

hmmmm. I wasn't thinking of the vacuum loss from removing the plug at the end of the line. But that makes sense.

Oh well. Looks like I need to spend more money on maple equipment! I have 3 lines but also have "Y's" in them for branches to reach clusters of red maples. I figure I'll need about 7-8 gauges and the associated barb adapter to attach the gauge to a piece of tubing and the tubing to a permanent "T" near the end of each line.

Thanks for the advice.

Mark

[Bricklayer]

I purchase vacuum gauges for the end of each lateral on 3/16 and mount permanently. They are only 3 or 4 bucks and great for trouble shooting. If you are set on using one gauge you can use our multifunction cap
which I have attached a photo of15137

I don't have any pictures but what I did last year to check my vacuum was at my end of line I put a regular drop line. Put a piece of 5/16 tubing on the vacuum gauge and whenever I wanted to check the vacuum I pushed the spout into the 5/16 tubing on the vacuum gauge. When done I put the spout back in the cup on the tee. No leaks if you push it in tight. If you do it quick you don't loose too much vacuum since it takes a couple second for the sap to blast through the lines once you introduce air. And the lunchbox only pumps through a 5/16 line so it takes a bit to empty all the sap out of the lines. It builds back up pretty quick though. Maybe 15-20 seconds. You'll hear it cycling like crazy then it will equalize and your vacuum will be back. I Am going to permantly install them this year though. Bought 4 more

[Bricklayer]

Im selling and using these new sliders from Sap Stars. They make them for both the wire end and the end of line. You dont have to cut your tubing to tighten. Just open the wedge lock, pull the line tight, and reinstall wedge lock. http://www.dsdstars.com/images/20A05-188-K_BIG.png

I picked some of these style sliders today from CDL. I installed the first one and got it super tight. Was pretty impressed. I then cut a couple drops in and decided to go back and snug the line up a bit more. When I opened the slide I noticed big gouges in the tubing. Inspected a little closer and when I bent the tube it was a hole on each side of the tubing. Inspected the fitting a little more and noticed that there are sharp spikes in the fitting on each side of the wedge slide. I only had the wedge in about 1/2 way also. I could only imagine if it went in all the way. I thought maybe I grabbed the 3/16 fittings instead but went back and I didn't. I'm using CDL 5/16 tubing everywhere. Is there something I'm missing. i have attached a picture of the barbs. On the left part of the fitting
http://http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/bottenhof/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-01/22D1C3E4-47E7-421A-9FBF-BA477507B821_zpsuzqtisj9.jpg (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/bottenhof/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-01/22D1C3E4-47E7-421A-9FBF-BA477507B821_zpsuzqtisj9.jpg.html)

[wurmdert]

I'm not sure about CDL. If you notice in this pic that the SAP Stars barbs are not so extreme. Maybe that's why they don't cut tubing.15218

[wurmdert]

I can send you one to try. Leave me your address and size in a pm

[mspina14]

Strange. In the slide fittings I purchased from Bascom's (Leader fittings), the surface of the interior of the fitting is smooth. There are no barbs at all:

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I believe these are designed to attached a lateral to a mainline wire. The fittings are shaped like a wedge. When on piece slides into the other on the outside of the tubing, they apply pressure to the outside of the tubing, holding them in place.

I've used them to tension a 5/16 line. I put a slide fitting about 4 feet from a tree near the end of the line or a long section of tubing. I connect a piece of 18 gauge wire to the tubing and wrap it about the tree (I protect the tree by placing the wire that comes in contact with the tree bark in a piece of tubing). I then have my son pull the tubing taught and I twist the wire to connect the fitting to the tree.

The more pressure placed on the fitting, tighter it grips to the outside of the tubing.

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Mark

[MNmapleboyz]

What specifically is the lunchbox you are referring to?

[mspina14]

What specifically is the lunchbox you are referring to?

It's a diaphragm pump/releaser that runs on compressed air. See link below:

http://www.northwoodsugarworks.com/about.html

It's basically a diaphragm pump in an insulated cooler. The cooler holds water and keeps the pump from freezing. Apparently sap freezes at about 31.5 degrees and water at 32 degrees so the water keeps the sap from freezing.

Photo below in my woods setting it up this year:

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Haven't used it yet. Hope to get it going this weekend.

Mark

[maple flats]

Maybe I missed something, but are you saying your 5/16 runs are 500' long? It is strongly suggested they never be longer than 100' for better vacuum transfer. Then you connect to a mainline using a saddle. The exception is if you have enough slope and you go with 3/16. In the 5/16 the gasses can pass over the sap and render vacuum transfer much less, in 3/16 they remain segregated and vacuum transfer is better. However, flat areas should not be tubed in 3/16.
That being said, I have 3 experimental lines in 3/16 in a flat area to see how they perform with vacuum on the mainline.