plastic 5/16th bucket spiles

[tbear]

Hi Everyone,
I read a few years back about the importance of cleaning the bacterial film off of the metal spiles and have been doing my best in that regard since then. Now I'm wondering if I should go with the plastic 5/16th bucket spiles instead, and replace them each year. Currently I use (70-75) 3 gallon aluminum buckets with 7/16th rolled stainless spiles. My question is, since there will be an additional cost (the prices I've seen are 88 cents and a dollar even) each year, will I produce enough more syrup to cover the additional yearly expense? Any thoughts? Thanks, Ted

[Urban Sugarmaker]

I would think you would definitely make a bit more syrup with new taps each year. You could invest once in stainless steel bucket spouts and get a pressure cooker to pretty much sterilize them after the season. I don't think boiling them really gets everything, and stainless steel does not like bleach.

[Michael Greer]

Go for the stainless. You can make it clean enough for surgery and they last forever. Throwing plastic away every year is just bad.

[ash10383]

so just boiling SS taps isn't quite good enough? they benefit (and are as good as new?) after pressure cooking for a while?

[Urban Sugarmaker]

I just boil mine, but if you really want them sterilized (as is ALL bacteria and spores are killed) you will need to pressure cook them. I think this is the only practical way to ensure they are as good as new spiles.

[tbear]

There's a thread somewhere (buckets brix and basics?) from a few years back, I can't seem to find it so if anyone could locate it I'd appreciate it, where it talks adout a "bacterial footprint". Killing the bacteria is good but the bacterial, footprint, fingerprint, goo, remains, making it easier, and therefore faster, for new bacteria to grow. Scrubbing, without scratching the surface, which would leave a good place for more bacteria, was recomennded on top of sterilizing/sanitizing, for longer tap hole life. That's why I was considering disposable plastic taps. Not sure the increased hole life would create enough extra syrup to justify the added yearly expense, about $70.00 for me.

[markcasper]

Hi Everyone,
I read a few years back about the importance of cleaning the bacterial film off of the metal spiles and have been doing my best in that regard since then. Now I'm wondering if I should go with the plastic 5/16th bucket spiles instead, and replace them each year. Currently I use (70-75) 3 gallon aluminum buckets with 7/16th rolled stainless spiles. My question is, since there will be an additional cost (the prices I've seen are 88 cents and a dollar even) each year, will I produce enough more syrup to cover the additional yearly expense? Any thoughts? Thanks, Ted

I have used these with bags before and I don't think one has ever pulled out, meaning they can hold the weight of 4 gallons of sap. I did have some issue with bag holders blowing off the tree, especially in wind prone areas, (ridge tops) 4 years ago I hung out 330 on bags with these. I wouldn't hesitate to use them again as I bought a bag of 1000 to have on hand. By using these you will get sap flow all the way to the end, the new plastic really is key to keeping the holes open. I would think you could use them for buckets as well and they are very affordable. One extra pail of sap will more than pay for the cost of these. https://www.bascommaple.com/item/lapssp516/spout_lapierre/

They have been known to run sap backwards, missing the container, a 1/2" piece of tubing, notched right on the end will make the drip goes where it needs to go.

[tbear]

Thanks markcasper and Everyone. I was looking at those taps but couldn't see a way to put the lid on the buckets. I use/have the flat lids that connect to the spile with a wire "hing". That led me to the plastic bucket spiles and the higher cost. I'd like to change a few things, and if I could go back in time I would, but I'm in a bit deep financially (buckets, spiles, lids) to scrap what I have and go a different way. Being a hobbyist I'm lucky to make 10/12 gallons a year. Id sure like to try the clear plastic spiles, just can't think of a way to make them work for me. Ted

[KV Sappers]

Thanks markcasper and Everyone. I was looking at those taps but couldn't see a way to put the lid on the buckets. I use/have the flat lids that connect to the spile with a wire "hing". That led me to the plastic bucket spiles and the higher cost. Ted

Last year I tried the 5/16 inch plastic blue spiles with the bucket hook and lid hinge. I had a lot of problems with the spiles coming loose and leaking sap so this year I'm back to the 7/16 spiles.

[tbear]

Thanks for the responce(s). I guess, for this season at least, I'll stick with the 7/16 stainless spiles and rub nd scrub them with the green scratchy pad tied around a chopstick with waxed dental floss. It works, I think. Tried a small nylon bottle brush but the bristles quickly fell out. Might have been the warm bleach solution I was using. If anyone is interested, the thread I mentioned earlier would be a good read. Thanks, Ted

[Clinkis]

Last year I tried the 5/16 inch plastic blue spiles with the bucket hook and lid hinge. I had a lot of problems with the spiles coming loose and leaking sap so this year I'm back to the 7/16 spiles.

I used these spiles for a few years and had similar issues. I was told to use a 19/64 tapping bit and after that i never had one fall out. I you use just a standard 5/16 bit from the hardware store you'll never keep them in.

[markcasper]

I guess I forgot about the covers for your aluminum pails. The other thing with the alum pails is they are thicker than a bag holder and there may be issues if all of the hook holes are not big enough to slide over the straight clear spout. The year I did all the bags, I could have used my old 7/16" but chose the disposables 5/16" any way. Even though I hand some wind issues, I quickly figured that out and would just place sticks up against the holders to keep the prone ones from blowing off. (usually were always the same trees)

With the above being said, I have used these for probably the last 10 years in the tapping of my sample taps in January or February, and these are always still running full bore all the way to the end, hence the effects of brand new plastic.

If you didn't care about using covers....I'd sure try the straight clear spouts.. Covers are overrated except if you get a heavy rain and then you find some full of rainwater even with a cover.

[KV Sappers]

I used these spiles for a few years and had similar issues. I was told to use a 19/64 tapping bit and after that i never had one fall out. I you use just a standard 5/16 bit from the hardware store you'll never keep them in.

I did use a 19/64 tapping bit that I ordered along with the 5/16 spiles but still had problems. I just ordered some 5/16 stainless steel sap-meister hinged spiles to see how they work. All my bits are from maple suppliers.

[Big_Eddy]

I think for a small producer with buckets, this discussion about more or less sap with clean or less clean taps is overrated.

I'm not saying there isn't a scientifically measurable difference (there is), but for a small producer a few % more or less sap per tap is noise. I figure we spill more sap during collecting than that difference could possibly be. The weather from year to year certainly has much more effect on flows than tap cleanliness ever could.

I wash my taps in hot water after and before each season. If I'm not getting as much sap as I can boil, I tap a few more trees.

[tbear]

I was wondering if it wasn't something like that Big Eddie. But then, I seem to need something to wonder about while I'm waiting for the season to start! Ted

[markcasper]

I think for a small producer with buckets, this discussion about more or less sap with clean or less clean taps is overrated.

I'm not saying there isn't a scientifically measurable difference (there is), but for a small producer a few % more or less sap per tap is noise. I figure we spill more sap during collecting than that difference could possibly be. The weather from year to year certainly has much more effect on flows than tap cleanliness ever could.

I wash my taps in hot water after and before each season. If I'm not getting as much sap as I can boil, I tap a few more trees.

Its not overated when anyone, big or small, taps trees on open taps buckets/bags, and they start closing down flow in two weeks time, especially south ones. The new plastic, new spile, WILL allow you to tap several weeks early, even on buckets/bags, and minimize or stop that early taphole closure.

[Super Sapper]

My experience has been that I get the largest runs towards the end of the season and if my taps closed up early I would loose a large percentage of my production. Last year I ended up getting over 2200 gallons of sap in 8 days at the end of the season on 300 taps. I could not process fast enough and could of had a lot more the week after but ended up dumping it.

[tbear]

I think I'll invest in a few of the 5/16 seasonal spouts, plastic 5 gallon buckets and tubing to see how they do compared to my current method. It's true that my season is on the short side (I believe) but always assumed it was my location and weather. Maybe put in a half dozen or so of the "experimental" method earlier than the rest and see how it turns out. If I could stretch my season by a week or so it might be financially worth while. If it does work out I could make the change over a few seasons so the financial impact wouldn't be so great. Thanks for alll the input, Ted