Pumping small amounts of sap uphill

[Biz]

I will have a 20 or 30 gallon collection barrel located about 500ft downhill from my sugarhouse next spring, in the woods on a 3/16" sap line, and thinking about using a battery operated pump (Shurflo) to pump sap to my sugarhouse. Problem is what size line to use, or is pumping this small amount of sap not a good idea? If I use 1/2" line, then when the pump shuts off, half of my sap will run back down into the barrel when the line empties! I figure 1 gallon of sap per 100' of 1/2" line. If I use 5/16" line, only 2 gallons would run back down - but it will take longer to empty the barrel. And I don't know if the pump can do it. But it is easier than lugging 30 gallons up the hill with 2-3 trips carrying pails with my sap yoke. And probably faster. I have no problem turning on the pump and letting it run for 1/2 hr or whatever it takes. Or, I could leave the line full of sap - and hope it is not frozen next time I need to pump. I'm sure others have run into this problem before, looking for ideas. I don't have a full vacuum system, trees are scattered, just using diaphragm pumps where I can.

Dave

[Bucket Head]

I have no experience pumping small amounts of sap- we pump with 1" gas-driven pumps. However, your ideas sound like a decent and inexpensive way to do it if time isn't a concern. Maybe others will have some good ideas as well.
I can tell you that leaving sap in the line is a bad idea. It will freeze and you'll be looking at lugging the sap up in the buckets! Everyone on here has had frozen sap somewhere and it's not fun. Disconnect the line and drain the gallon or two or whatever in a small pail and carry that up. That won't be too bad.
Steve

[maple flats]

You say that the tank will be 500' downhill, but do not mention how much lower in elevation it will be. That must be figured in.
As for the pump, you first need to know what the total lift is in feet before a pump can be determined. If it is pushing sap up 30' total a rather cheap pump can be used, if the rise is 100' a different pump and if 200' it will take a far different one. You can get a fairly accurate calculation by using math to calculate it, sometimes estimating the height of trees is easiest. For that, sight the top of a tree along a level site path as you drop to the bottom from the top, if it is less, just make a mental note where a branch leaves the trunk. Google a formula to get the height of that point. Another way is to go to: https://www.mapdevelopers.com/elevation_calculator.php
then zoom in to find your location. If you switch to sat. view it helps. Then pinpoint where the sugar house is and get the elevation, then do the same for the collection tank, the difference will be pretty close. Then you can determine the pump needed.
As far as pipe size, if too small line friction will radically reduce the pump's ability to push sap uphill, but too large will increase the amount left in the pipe after pumping. I suggest you don't leave it full. I had a bush where the tank was 15' above the tanks on my trailer and it was 1.5"x 950' long pipe. If I left sap in the line and we had a hard freeze it sometimes took 4 days of sap flow before I could get sap to pump thru that line. While a 5/16 would thaw faster it would still be an issue. If I saw a forecast for upper 20's over night and low 40's the next day, I had no problem, the ice would thaw fast enough to pump (however I needed 2 valves at the lower end, in series, I'd close the higher one, open the lower one and drain that end of the line. Then close the lower valve, now empty and open the upper valve. If a ball valve freezes with the ball full, it will break the valve). If it was going to the low 20's or if the freezing temps were forecast for more than a day, I had to drain the whole line or wait the 3-4 days for it to thaw after sap again flowed.

[Zucker Lager]

Just in case anyone is interested in this. Its a pipe volume calculator. The pipe fitters handbook is a great guide for stuff like this too. Jay

http://www.rhomarwater.com/calculators/pipe-volume-calculator

[Biz]

My drop is about 20 ft. Good points about freezing! I will have to experiment some warm day to see if I can use 5/16".

Dave

[RIVERWINDS]

I use a 120v Shurflo to pump sap straight up 35 feet in a 3/4" tube, then it gravity flows about 300 ft to my shack. I use a sump pump controller to control the sap pump, so when my barrel gets full it activates the sap pump until it shuts off via the low limit switch. I have a tee in the that transfer line at the pump and use a small normally open solenoid valve wired into my Shurflo vacuum pumps as the drain valve for my transfer line. So when my "vacuum" pump is on, the drain valve is closed and sap goes to the shack. I have a temperature controller to shut my vacuum off at night once it's 30 degrees, so when my temp controller turns my vacuum pump off, the N.O. valve opens and drains the transfer line to avoid freezing.

I'm lucky as I have 120v power at my vacuum station so I have a few more options I can tinker with compared to someone trying to do it all on 12v.

[eustis22]

is the pump located at the source (the collection barrel) and pushes it up the hill or it located at the destination (the holding tank) and sucks it into the tank? I have a similar plan to pump into a barrel on my truck for the trip up the driveway (height 35 feet, distance 200 feet) and the run a hose from the barrel out to my holding tank (slightly downhill so I'm counting on gravity to drain the barrel 100+ feet to the tank), then lift it 5 feet into the tank.

right now I use this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-0-1-HP-Non-Submersible-Transfer-Pump-ZE00802A/205617257 to pump from my buckets into my holding tank but I'm thinking of using this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/ECO-FLO-1-2-HP-Cast-Iron-Transfer-Booster-Pump-PUP57/207061381 to handle the long line from truck to tank. I have had zero luck with my Shurflo 12V pumps lasting a season.

I am always open to a better way.