Advice for a new pan

[barnbc76]

So like seemingly everyone else here after my second season of making maple syrup on less than efficient roasting pans I would like to get 1 pan. I am planning on using a cinderblock arch still, but i might be able to do more with my brother gaining interest in this hobby. I think my max #taps is about 30 but I probably will only do 20. I believe a 2×3 flat pan is what I want. Unless others have really good arguments for a divided pan. I can boil evenings for a good 4 or 5 hours and on weekends.

My questions are what is the best stainless steel grade/finish should I have it made with, what depth, and do i need, and do the ends need crimped or anything. I expect to have a friend weld it together for me. Anything else you think I need to know?
Thanks guys your advice hekped me last season.

[Bucket Head]

Have it made with 304 stainless steel. The thickness of it will depend on how good your buddy is at welding and whether it will be MIG or TIG welded. The thinner the metal, the better the heat transfer will be. The thickness will determine how the ends and seams will be handled. The cinder block arch pans we used were five and six inches deep. My buddy had one that was four inches. The high sides will allow for some foaming up without it going over, and will leave ample area for attaching handles. 2x3 isn't a bad size, but more surface area equals more boil rate. Can you get away with a slightly larger pan- with handles, and with a boiling partner to pick the pan up off the fire? Just food for thought there.
A 2x3 food-grade stainless pan will be great compared to the roaster pans and will have some value to it when or if you upgrade in the future.
And my mother had a BAD ONE when she discovered that I ruined her roaster pans by boiling with them back in the mid-80's! Lol!
Good luck this season.
Steve

[SmellsLikeSyrupNH]

Exactly what Buckethead said, with a cinderblock arch you can make the block base any size you want, id go 2x4 if you can, 8" deep, and boil with 2-3" of sap in it, you will be doing as well as you can with a setup like that.

[maple flats]

2x3 good, 2x4 better. At 50 taps you'll do well on a 2x3 but if you then go to 30 taps a 2x4 will be far better.
Before you get your buddy to weld one, check for a used SS flat pan. You can find them on this site, on Ebay, on Craig's List and at many equipment dealers. If that fails, at least try to get your buddy to go with you to look at one before he makes one, it will help him better know what is needed.
As said above, the thinner the better the heat transfer, but also the harder to get a perfect weld. 22 Ga is what most commercial pans are, but homemade ones tend to go 20 ga or 18 ga and some even heavier.

[mudr]

Not sure where in WNY you are, but there is a 2x4 flat pan, no dividers, but has a valve, on the Syracuse craigslist. $350. That's an OK price I think.

[Bucket Head]

Going back to the thickness, and what Dave said with, "even heavier"- my first set of evaporator pans were homemade and made of 16ga., I believe. Pretty thick for pans, but they boiled alright- used them for years. And that thickness is easily welded with a MIG welder which is easier to do. They were not "shiny" stainless steel, they were what most call mill-finish. That finish is cheaper than the mirror-like stuff and the sap won't care if the pans are shiny or not, lol.
Used pans are an option too. Bascom's has a lot of used pans. Nothing saying you can't take a factory-made syrup pan and put it over a concrete block arch. A lot of folks have done that.
Steve

[BAP]

Check out www.smokylakemaple.com he has various sizes flat pans with or without dividers and valves for a fairly reasonable price.

[barnbc76]

Thanks, I will likely have help for only half of the time boiling. What is the max size pan one person can handle? Maybe I could go 2x3.5. If I have 1" of syrup how much would that equate to for the 2x3 and the 2x3.5?

I dont have alot of money, but I believe I can buy the metal for under $150. We have a bender at work I can use, and I think my friend will take syrup as payment. He is a welder by trade so I believe he should be able to make all the welds. I will try to get either 18 or 20 ga.

I am getting really excited for this season, and have watched almost every youtube video on sugaring or building evaporators, and numerous posts on this forum.

[mudr]

Assuming you never go beyond 30 taps, 2x3 would work. 2x3= 6 Sq ft, which should boil off 6 gallons of water per hour. The old standby is 1 gallon of sap per tap per decent run. Thus, 30 taps is 30 gallons in a run, so 30÷6 means 5 hours of just boiling for just that one run. So a 2x3 works.

A 2x4 would get you 8 gph of boil, so one run would take 3.5 hrs of boiling. So it would save you 1.5 hrs per boil session compared to the 2x3. Say you boil 10 times per year, a 2x4 would shave 15 hours of boil time across the year. If you are building it yourself and can get cheap labor it makes sense to me to go 2x4. That said, it's your money and your time. Just have fun spending both of them.

[ADK_XJ]

I actually just scored a 2x3 SS flat pan off Bascom's last week — it was by far the best deal I've seen at $100 flat and I'll need to add a draw off valve and thermometer but couldn't say enough about Bascom's customer service and super speedy shipping, even with UPS Ground.

I'm in a similar place as you, 3rd season in (although last year was with an infant, so that didn't really count and I think I blacked out the whole time) and looking to a low cost expansion. Currently running 20-ish taps between myself and a neighbor. I plan to eventually expand on our land up to 100+ taps but didn't want to invest in new pans and an evaporator prematurely.

So, yeah, I can tell you in a couple months how a 2x3 flat pan works but I'd say you're on the right track...

[barnbc76]

Anyone think it is worth making it a divided pan? I do not know enough about them, perhaps someone could explain it.

[maple flats]

I never boiled on a flat pan that had no dividers. The advantage of dividers is that you can make lighter syrup generally. The flow then becomes a big long serpentine flow and you draw off small draws of finished or almost finished syrup at the draw off while adding new sap all during the boil at the other end. With an open flat pan you keep adding more sap and boil it down, add more and repeat several times, then you empty the whole batch and repeat on the next batch.

[barnbc76]

Ok, so I am just waiting to see what gauge metal our bender at work can handle, Assuming it can handle 18 ga, what would I do with the seems and ends? 20 ga is the alternative, is there a difference in the aproach with these 2 thicknesses, I am just looking for something that will be really durrable. And as a backup in case my one friend is unable to help me weld it, then I suppose it best to have it thicker when I have someone less expierinced try.

[Bucket Head]

Yes, the thicker material will be more durable and easier to weld. It takes a very experienced TIG welder to put together the thin stuff.
Lapierre used to advertise (and still might?) "20g. walls, 22g. flues", since the 20g was more sturdy.
Steve

[barnbc76]

Thanks guys, I just talked to my friend he says he can weld it for me so I am ordering the metal in 18 ga. Now the one question I have is how do you bend the 2 sides up? I have access to a break at work but it will only do 2 of the sides, I thought I saw on here someone who showed how to do it but no matter what I search for I cant find it.

I'm really excited. I found a oil tank I can have assuming I can get it out of the guys house. So I think I may have another thing to do, maybe this year but probably next year.

[Bucket Head]

In order to get the sharp and very tight corners for a gap-free fitment for welding, your going to have to find a brake that has the removable sections so you can do the other two sides. I used one years ago but I do not remember what they called that style of brake or the sections that could be removed. A sheet metal and/or fabrication shop would have that type brake.
Someone here may have a way to do it without the special brake, but the corners might not be as tight as they need to be. I can't stress enough that the tight fitment is crucial with the thin stainless steel.
Steve

[maple flats]

I believe they are called a "Box and Pan Brake". At least that is what my old friend who was a master tinsmith called his. He has long since gone on to his eternal reward.

[Big_Eddy]

Follow the links on my signature. I think you will find the thread you remember.

[barnbc76]

Thanks big Eddy, we'll figure it out I ordered the metal. Today we cut up the oil tank and got it out, hardest part was getting the 45 gal of bad oil out.

[barnbc76]

I cut up and bent the pan mostly today, I was only able to do 2 sides fully, the other only partially with our box break. It said it could do 16 ga but not SS so it was pushing the limits but it worked.14941

[ADK_XJ]

I cut up and bent the pan mostly today, I was only able to do 2 sides fully, the other only partially with our box break. It said it could do 16 ga but not SS so it was pushing the limits but it worked.14941
Looking good, can't wait to see your progress - did you decide to do dividers? I didn't see that in the thread...I'm trying my 25x36" flat pan without this year, would be interesting to compare.

[barnbc76]

My dad had some clamps that finished the job came out excellent...finished dimensions were changed due to the size of our oil tank to 25" x37" and 7.5" deep. I am not doing dividers maybe another year.1494814949

[barnbc76]

It is finally finished and ready to go, test boil achived 6gal/hr and that was using damp wood, no smoke stack and no rope gasket. I love it already cant waitfor the season to start..1519015191