Cleaning 3/16 line and spouts

[dbeitz1891]

Last year was our first year on 3/16 line and drops. We have two different woods that we tap so at the end of the year we tried two different cleaning methods to see which would be the most effective moving forward.

In our first woods, and much larger, at the end of the season while the sap was still running we went through with jugs and a solution of peroxide and water and dipped each tap and then let them hang. We let them hang throughout the summer and noticed two things.
1. Our taps were severely damaged by animals, both deer and squirrel.
2. Although the our lines were quite dry, we did occasionally see spots of mold, or bacteria build on the sidewalls of the tubing.

In our second woods we again pulled the spouts while running dipped them in the same solution and let them hang but for only about 5 warm, dry days, and them went back through and capped them all. In this woods we also noticed a few things.
1. While capping the lines there was some residual liquid in the laterals but it has stayed clear, no build up of mold or other signs of bacteria (although I know there is of course some)
2. With the spouts being capped of course there is far less damage by squirrels and deer

Given our results we are cutting and sanitizing the spouts from the first woods and then re attaching them to the drops. Before we tap will dip them in our solution of peroxide and water again to re sanitize the exterior walls of the spout. Given the principles of the 3/16 line if the trees are running when we tap there should be no new introduction of bacteria into the tap hole.

My only question is when sanitizing spouts at home what solution do you guys find best?

[eustis22]

I don't reuse spouts (and no longer tees). There is no way to rid them of the bacteria that fosters taphole closure.

[Gallinipper]

My understanding is that chemical cleaners cannot penetrate or entirely clean the pores of the plastic. Therefore, the only options are to replace or autoclave the spouts. Most replace due to the low cost of the spouts. I did a test run on autoclaving the CDL 3/16 white spouts and they handled the heat and pressure just fine. I plan to clean and autoclave the rest of them and reinstall them this year. This will be year two for me as well on 3/16. Depending on how much my operation grows this year, I may just purchase new spouts and replace them year 3 for a time savings measure. In some cases time is $$$.

[dbeitz1891]

I know plastic is porous and makes disinfection difficult but I believe if you allow them to soak in a solution long enough it should do a sufficient enough job. With the 3/16 they haven't created a more cost efficient tap where you can justify buying brand new every year, at least I can't. I will wait to see production from the re used spouts this year before I make that call though

[Gallinipper]

Maxflow 3/16 CDL are .25 each. I would like to see a study completed where a biologist tests the spouts after soaking them in various chemicals looking for # of spores and microbes. The studies I have read are looking at tap hole drying or overall sap production. I have to admit that I have often wondered if soaking them for a period of time would be effective. Other posts have indicated that solutions will kill the bacteria but not the mold spores.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbeitz1891]

I know bleach contact will not kill the mold spores, the best chemical contact cleaner I know would just be straight vinegar but even that wouldn't kill 100% of the mold.The hyphae, or roots, are what present the problem, most chemicals only discolor the mold but don't actually kill it. I was curious if anyone else had used a known solution to kill them or not.

I know the most efficient way to kill it is through wet autoclaving, 5 minutes at 121 degrees Celsius but not many people have access to an autoclave nor would anyone want to take the time to do the process correctly.

I just really don't want to buy brand new every year, seems like such a waste to do that. I suppose it all depends on how much loss of production not changing them out provides.

[Woodsrover]

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately.....

Last year I had three runs of 3/16". When I pulled it I ditched all the short lengths of tubing, the Ts and spiles. I kept the longer lengths of tubing and washed them out by laying them down the hill, putting the ends in a 5-gallon pail and let water flow through them for a couple hours. I simply left a hose in the bucket to refill as the water drained through the tubing. Still, there was a lot of waste that I felt badly about, let-alone the cost.

This year I have a different plan. I'm going to run all my tubing and map them out on my land. (I will pull all the tubing down at the end of the season just like last year) Each tubing/T/drop set will be labeled so I can reuse them in the same location next year. I'm going to pull all the tubing sets out in one piece, lay them out across the lawn and run pressurized water through them for a number of hours. I've made a manifold up that I will connect all the terminal ends to and run a garden hose to. I will put each spile back into its cup at the T and pull them off one-by-one letting the water flow through each drop. When I'm happy that they're clean enough I will run compressed air through the lines and un-cup each spile just like I did with the water. When the whole line is clean and dry I will cut the spiles off the drops, roll each run on its own spool and put them away until next year.

Next season, roll each run out, insert new spiles into each drop and string it up. The only expense will be some time and new spiles each year.

Here's the manifold. Just mocked-up for now. Need to tape and tighten everything down.

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/manifold.JPG

[dbeitz1891]

I feel that is a thorough of cleaning the the entire lateral line and drops. That will probably rid the lines of almost all of your bacteria but will unfortunately still leave behind the mold spores.

I sat down and did some math when I got home and it will cost me about 300 dollars to replace all the spouts brand new. If I choose not to replace them and lose even a slight margin of production, say 5%, based upon my production of 0.41 gal/tap I would be losing about $1,200 dollars.

Given all of this, and unfortunately how wasteful it seems to be, I believe the ultimate decision is just to replace the spouts every year but still trying to clean your laterals as goods as you can to prolong the life span of them.

[Super Sapper]

If you use the 3/16 X 3/16 X 5/16 Tee you can use any of the 5/16 spouts. and at about $0.14 a piece it is hard to justify not replacing them.

[dbeitz1891]

They were still developing those when we installed the woods so when it comes time to replace the entire drop that's probably what we'll do. There Is some vacuum loss with a 5/16 drop, I cut 32" drops so I'd be losing around 4-5 inches of vacuum. Only reason why I'm hesitant to do it.

[Super Sapper]

Your drop length should not affect your vacuum. It is elevation drop that creates the vacuum in 3/16. Once the 5/16 is full it should not matter.

[dbeitz1891]

Drop length in 5/16 would not affect vacuum but drop length of 3/16 does. Sap flowing through the drop is the same principle as flowing through the lateral, but actually even better because being nearly vertical it provides the least amount of frictional resistance.

[Super Sapper]

The most you could loose would be the elevation difference from the tap to the lateral at that spot. Even if you went straight up with the drop and had less than 30 feet of drop from the lateral to the discharge you would loose about 2 inches in vacuum at most. If the 5/16 is full there would still be some vacuum created. If there is 30 feet or more elevation drop from the lateral to your discharge there would be no loss. It does not affect the vacuum in the lateral so there is no compounded loss from tap to tap.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

CDL has the new signature 45 degree seasonal spouts for 19 cents in 3/16.

[dbeitz1891]

You're right super sapper, once maximum vacuum is achieved there would be no loss through the tap, but only if maximum vacuum has been achieved. We've got a each woods set up slightly different. One only has about 15 foot of total elevation difference, but using the 3/16 still provides an advantage compared the 5/16, and although the loss may be marginal it's still a loss. Splitting hairs here really but a good topic none the less

[dbeitz1891]

Can you provide a link to the seasonal 3/16 spouts? They are not on the cdl online catalog

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Item # 66045316

[Gallinipper]

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately.....

Last year I had three runs of 3/16". When I pulled it I ditched all the short lengths of tubing, the Ts and spiles. I kept the longer lengths of tubing and washed them out by laying them down the hill, putting the ends in a 5-gallon pail and let water flow through them for a couple hours. I simply left a hose in the bucket to refill as the water drained through the tubing. Still, there was a lot of waste that I felt badly about, let-alone the cost.

This year I have a different plan. I'm going to run all my tubing and map them out on my land. (I will pull all the tubing down at the end of the season just like last year) Each tubing/T/drop set will be labeled so I can reuse them in the same location next year. I'm going to pull all the tubing sets out in one piece, lay them out across the lawn and run pressurized water through them for a number of hours. I've made a manifold up that I will connect all the terminal ends to and run a garden hose to. I will put each spile back into its cup at the T and pull them off one-by-one letting the water flow through each drop. When I'm happy that they're clean enough I will run compressed air through the lines and un-cup each spile just like I did with the water. When the whole line is clean and dry I will cut the spiles off the drops, roll each run on its own spool and put them away until next year.

Next season, roll each run out, insert new spiles into each drop and string it up. The only expense will be some time and new spiles each year.

Here's the manifold. Just mocked-up for now. Need to tape and tighten everything down.

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/manifold.JPG


I made a manifold similar to yours after last season but it only had one connection port. I tied it to a new garden hose and flushed with low pressure the exact way that you mentioned above. I also blew them down with filtered compressed air and all seems to be ok. I noticed one small spot of mold in one drop but otherwise everything looks great. I am currently cutting off all of the spouts and replacing them. I do have access to an autoclave and will be trying autoclaved spouts on one of my lines. After I realized how much work there was in taking down all of the lines and putting them back up again, I plan to keep them in the woods after this season. I still plan to clean the same way.

[Gandolf]

I haven't switched to 3/16 yet, but plan to next season.

As for cleaning lines and spouts, I flush my lines after every season with water. I fill my collection tank in my mule with fresh water and use a 12 volt ag pump to flush the line for a few minutes. When flushing I start with all the taps still in the trees, connect the line to the pump, and start removing the taps from the lowest point first making my way up hill. I have one run of about 200 feet with a 50 to 60 change in elevation. I also flush the lines in the same manner before taping as I drop the lines and leave them in the woods until next year.

After flushing, I remove the spouts, clean off any debris, and then boil them for 10 minutes. Not an autoclave but I hope this is doing the job.

[Gandolf]

Oops, make that pulling the highest tap and then working my way down hill. This guarantees I flush the entire line.

[lakeview maple]

When I pulled my 3/16th taps last year , they sucked themselves empty, the vac emptied them out.