Diatomaceous Earth filtering question

[SmellsLikeSyrupNH]

So I am curious about using this stuff.....how does it work? Does anyone have a tutorial about how they use it?

My questions revolve around, how does it actually help with filtering?

Why couldn't I just take a 5 gallon bucket of syrup, I only made 28 gallons last year, add some DE to the syrup and let it settle, then strain and bottle? From what Ive read the DE somehow helps by absorbing or attaching itself to the Niter?

Has anyone done this?

Does it work?

am I way off? LOL

Thanks!!

[CharlieVT]

Here's some good reading:

http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/filter_press_brochure.pdf

The diatomaceous earth (DE or filter aid) does not "adsorb" suspended particles in the syrup so your bucket method won't work. The DE becomes the "filter" as it is captured on the surface of the paper filters in the filter press by the flow of syrup being pumped through it.

[SmellsLikeSyrupNH]

So unless you have a filterpress or one of those canister filters, its basically useless in other applications.

Thanks!

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

All I have to say is we only made 30 gallons last year and I would rather give my right leg then give up our 7" short stack filter press. Search around for a used one if you want to save some $$$ but do yourself a favor and get one!

[maple flats]

A few producers, and some of them who make hundreds of gallons or even 1000+ do not use a filter press, but some do infact use DE or filter aid. They mix it in, then use flat filters and prefilters. Check some posts from a few years ago by mountainvan. He used DE and flat filters and he does lots of syrup.

[Aa2tn]

Someone somewhere may have done that for whatever reason but try both methods and 9 of 10 people will use the filter press!!!! I know I would ....

[jmayerl]

I did as Flats said and used DE with flat filters with very good but slow results for 2 years before getting a press. 30-40 gallons/year was the most I would do that way. It did work well.

[Maple Ridge Farm]

If you want clear syrup a pressure filter press is a must.

[tuckermtn]

we did 155gal in the last year BP (before press). wondering why it took so long. we used another producers press once in the BP era and were immediately convinced

[jmayerl]

If you want clear syrup a pressure filter press is a must.
This is not true. As I said, I used filter aid and flat filters prior to using a press and had crystal clear syrup with the " polished" look to it. The bad part was the wasted syrup, and very slow filtering.

[Sugarmaker]

You can have just as clear syrup through a standard cone filter and pre-filter system. its just slower and may need additional service (cleaning). the more syrup you make the more a powered press makes sense in the sugar house. Also a filter press will work for only a few gallons of syrup made in a season too. i did 200 gallons of syrup through cone filters the year I bought my filter press.
My explanation of how the DE works: The DE particles are like miniature 'jacks' (the kind kids uses to play with) the syrup passes through the DE but the niter, if it was the size of marbles would not pass through. the DE doesn't pass through either, so the DE is a aid, providing more filtering area to clean the syrup and allow the syrup to flow through.
Regards,
Chris

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

You can have just as clear syrup through a standard cone filter and pre-filter system. its just slower and may need additional service (cleaning). the more syrup you make the more a powered press makes sense in the sugar house. Also a filter press will work for only a few gallons of syrup made in a season too. i did 200 gallons of syrup through cone filters the year I bought my filter press.
My explanation of how the DE works: The DE particles are like miniature 'jacks' (the kind kids uses to play with) the syrup passes through the DE but the niter, if it was the size of marbles would not pass through. the DE doesn't pass through either, so the DE is a aid, providing more filtering area to clean the syrup and allow the syrup to flow through.
Regards,
Chris

I'd like to know how you got clear syrup from cone filters because we just got asked by a friend new to syrup. We used to filter raw sap 3 times before the evaporator, again at 75% syrup off of our flat pan and finally once more after we had syrup and were ready bottle. The syrup was never as clear as it is through the press. How many passes through the felt filters did you do?

[Urban Sugarmaker]

I have been using the DE and flat filter method and it makes a difference. I add 1/8th to 1/4 cup of DE per gallon of hot syrup, then filter. I usually start with 5-6 pre-filters and 1 orlon. On the first pre-filter, a "cake" does actually start to form. With clean filters I have not found the process to be painstakingly slow. The syrup comes out clear.

I will say I still get a slight film on the bottom of glass containers but I can't tell if that's a small amount of crystallization. This may have been because I overheated the syrup prior to bottling and possibly got more niter after filtering. But, if you don't want to drop $700+ on a press, this is a good alternative.

Despite the results, I am buying a press for 2017.

[Sugarmaker]

I'd like to know how you got clear syrup from cone filters because we just got asked by a friend new to syrup. We used to filter raw sap 3 times before the evaporator, again at 75% syrup off of our flat pan and finally once more after we had syrup and were ready bottle. The syrup was never as clear as it is through the press. How many passes through the felt filters did you do?

Well there was/is not a lot of magic in the gravity filter process. Syrup at the correct density taken hot from the evaporator, in batches from 1/2 to 2 gallons. Poured into cone filters with 1 to 3 pre-filters. Usually putting a lid on the filter to keep the syrup as hot as possible. Changing the filters as the process slowed. No DE was used. Single pass.
I have won many many awards with syrup filtered through gravity cone filters!
I would say that all the filtering you are doing prior to syrup is pretty much a waste of time.
It seems you may have missed the step of filtering while the syrup at its hottest temp. When bottling the temp should be only 180F, If your taking syrup back up to boiling for canning your making more sugar sand and run the risk of having cloudy syrup.
I actually had some filter press syrup that was cloudy this year and it did not win in its class. Looked at by several judges at local fairs. While other syrup from the same press was fine. Obviously I did not do something right.
Maybe I did not understand your question? I have only been making and filtering syrup for 55 years about 3 years with a press. Still learning.
Regards,
Chris

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Thanks for the info, wasn't trying to be a wise guy. I just didn't have a good answer for my buddy who asked what filters/process to do to get clear syrup so was curious what your process was. My question was answered. We did filter with the felt once we had syrup (max temp) and bottled immediately thereafter before we had a press. The syrup was never reheated after the felt filter. We used 2-3 sap filters off the evaporator depending how dirty it was. Still usually cloudy.

[Wanabe1972]

I never tried to filter through my cones using DE so Im not sure about that.I did Run some syrup through my homebuilt Siro style press after prefilters and orlon cone. The results were 2 to 3 numbers better on the Hanna grader. There is nothing saying that it would not have been better filtering through the cone a second time.

[JoeJ]

When I made the jump in 2003 from a small back yard sugar house and 30-40 taps to 29 acres and 470 taps, my very first purchase, even before my evaporator, was a short bank filter press. I had had enough of struggling with felt filters and frustration. Not that the filter press was not without frustration sometimes. I used the short bank press for seven seasons then added more plates as my taps count approached 1,000. When my taps went to 3,000 in 2014, I bought a 10" press. The old 7" press sold very quicky.

[Sugarmaker]

Thanks for the info, wasn't trying to be a wise guy. I just didn't have a good answer for my buddy who asked what filters/process to do to get clear syrup so was curious what your process was. My question was answered. We did filter with the felt once we had syrup (max temp) and bottled immediately thereafter before we had a press. The syrup was never reheated after the felt filter. We used 2-3 sap filters off the evaporator depending how dirty it was. Still usually cloudy.

Not a problem its all good. Not sure why your still getting cloudy syrup? But there is a lot of different syrup in the regions too. Some filters better than others and may have more or less sugar sand too.
I would probably change to a new felt to make sure that is not the issue. Maybe you tried this? Also assume you are not trying to force it through the cone or wringing or squeezing it during the process?
Regards,
Chris

[n8hutch]

I personally believe that most people's problems with settlement is related to temperature, even with a Double Boiler setup I have created niter/sugar sand bye heating to rapidly and getting over 190-195, it's not that hard to do.

Like wise if you pour syrup through a felt at 219 right off the evaporator there is a good chance that you will still have very minor niter forming when that syrup first gets through your felt.

I filter all my syrup with Flat Filters and I really would like to get a press but I have bigger fish to fry at the moment. You can make some really clear syrup but you need to be on the Ball.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Not a problem its all good. Not sure why your still getting cloudy syrup? But there is a lot of different syrup in the regions too. Some filters better than others and may have more or less sugar sand too.
I would probably change to a new felt to make sure that is not the issue. Maybe you tried this? Also assume you are not trying to force it through the cone or wringing or squeezing it during the process?
Regards,
Chris

Good point about the felt. We have CDL stuff locally so that's all we ever used. What brand or manufacturer was your felt? I'll tell him to try that. Never forced it through and rarely ever had niter in any of our syrup but it was not usually without some cloudiness. It's fine now that we have the press.

[Sugarmaker]

I guess I used filters form various suppliers.
Glad the press is doing the job for you.
Regards,
Chris