Gameplan for first tubing

[mudr]

Good evening everyone. Starting to get amped up for the upcoming season, which got me thinking. While I won't have a ton of taps, probably 100 for the new 2x6, I will be cramped for time next spring. My wife and I both work full time jobs, we have two kids under 5, and other evening commitments here and there occasionally. I ran the idea of tubing by my wife and my father (the owner of the woods) and they are all for it. So now I get to scheme.

Woods- Only tapping/tubing a small portion of the woods. Mainly, the closest section to where I can access along a hedge row. Almost all sugars, a few basswood and cherry mixed in. There is ok slope (guessing like 4%, its about 6 ft in 150 ft). The section I want to tube is about an acre and I can get about 100 taps in there. Again, all maples, and many in the 18-20 inch range.

Elevations- See map below. The lowest spot along slope is where I have mapped out for the "tank". The highest spot is the corner of the field. The entire southern third of the woods has a slope to it and could be tube, but I will not be tapping that for now but have hopes for future expansion (green lines).

Now here comes the fun part. Given the slope of the woods are, I think it would be best to run two individual mains in a V shape, as the slope is diagonal to the "square", with laterals in a herringbone pattern. If I were to run one line, it would be due east to west (in line with the green), but that would make all of my laterals like 150 ft to get to the southern edge of the woods. Pretty sure 3/4 mains, 5/16 laterals, 7ish taps/lateral, no venting, thinking about getting an IBC tote for now. The IBC will give me room for expansion in the future. Basically, I want to set this up reasonably well now, allow for future expansion, and be ready to accept vacuum.

The questions: My mains are going to be like 150-175 ft, each carrying 50ish taps. Can a 3/4 be run wireless with this short of distance and a 4% grade? Should I scrap the V-shape with herringbone laterals and go with a single main and long laterals? Would anyone say to just go all 5/16 without mains? Final question: why are tubing tools so d@mn expensive? :?:



14749

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Your 2 mainline and lateral layout makes sense. Also a better setup that way in case you decide to add vacuum. 3/4" mainline will be fine for that setup and is the smallest I would run. Tubing tools are expensive because it involves something for maple syrup. PM the member on here named psparr, I believe he still makes them for a much more reasonable price. Welcome to the addiction.....with room to expand you'll be working your real job less, giving up your evening commitments and will be a stranger in your own house in no time. Good times!

[madmapler]

I would use wire if possible. You may get away with side tying and stretching but it wont be the right way to do it. I'd ask another sugarmaker to sell you what you need. TSC sells high tensile wire by the 100' roll but it's ridiculously pricey.

[mudr]

Thanks. I had heard of people running wirelss, and it seems best if only a shorter run, decent grade, and 3/4 main. Didn't know if I fell under this scenario and could get by with a more simple and economical setup.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Do yourself a favor and go with rapitubing. Takes a lot of work out of tensioning.

[mudr]

I may look in to the rapid tube.

If I go the traditional wire route, I'm confused about the wire. I keep reading about not kinking the 12 gauge wire because it will weaken it. That makes sense. However, I'm trying to wrap my brain around the tree-loop and the gripple. When I loop the wire around the tree and tie it back on itself, won't whatever knot or wrapping method I use create a weak spot? The same with the gripple or whatever it's called. The end if wire that goes through the hole (not the barrel, just the hole on the other end), won't that be a very weak spot?

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

Go to YouTube and search "2013 new sap lines" you will see Bruce from leader and he shows how to do it very easy and explains the whole process


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[madmapler]

You can twist it around itself. It happens all the time. Kinking is a different story. It creates a weak point.

[mudr]

One last question about tightening the mainline. I plan to have the wire fully tightened first, the hang the line up loosely with a tie every 10 ft or so. Then tighten. I've seen different people suggest two of the tension grips, some say just one at one end. Once you put them on and tighten the line (via ratchet, come along, or whatever), do you leave the grips on and wire tie them to the same trees the 12 gauge is connected to? Or can you take the grips off after you have fully wire-tied the main? Will the wire ties maintain the stretch by themselves?

[wiam]

Whatever method you use to stretch the wire should be left in place. Once wire is tightened just put ties on pipe as you go. No need to tie loosely.

[JoeJ]

I leave the tension grips on both ends. If you take off the tension grips and rely on the wire ties to hold the pipe in place, the pipe will shrink in the first winter and then snake in the next summer. I have tried several other methods to hold the stretched pipe, such as cutting a piece of mainline, slicing it, putting the sliced mainline over the line you want to hold in place and install 2 pipe clamps. That does not work. Every mainline I did like that shrunk anyway. I had some that I tightened the hose clamps so tight that when the pipe shrunk, the hose clamps cut into the mainline and caused a vacuum leak. I also tried as someone suggested, putting 4 or 5 sets of double wire ties near the end of the line to hold it in place. That did not work either.

I put up 12,500' of 1" mainline in 2013 for 2000 taps and not 1' of that mainline snaked. Tension grips might seem expensive, but they are easy to use and do the job right. (IMO)

[mellondome]

If the pipe is properly tied and stretched, you do not need tension grips on it and it will not snake. But if you skimp on the ties, and do a poor job of installation, snakes is what you will get. I would not go any further than 8 in spacing on tying 3/4 pipe. Also, most pipe has about 3%expansion. If you put it up when it is cold, when it gets warm it will expand that 3% unless you pull that expansion out to before tying/lashing. Same holds true if you put it up in the summer. It will contract when it gets cold.

[mudr]

Thanks guys.

[JoeJ]

mudr,

In this response, there is no offense ment toward Mellondome. When I started with tubing in 2003, I got some free advise from an experienced sugar maker on installing piping and tubing. One bit of advise that was left out was to stretch the pipe and anchor it before wire tying. That disaster followed me for years. I cut all the wire ties on lines, stretched the pipe, and re wire tied only to have the pipe snake again. I did not anchor the main line properly. I cut the wire ties off some lines again and I then tried about 4 different methods to anchor the main line on the wire. While trying these other methods, I wire tied the mainline 6-8" apart to no avail. No other method that I tried was 100% successful until I started using tension grips. When using the tension grips, besides the mainline not snaking, the other great benefit is that you only have to wire tie very 18-20".

Joe

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Pull the mainline good with tension grips when you install it and use stainless unions are they aren't much more and double clamp them on each side of union and should be good for a long time. I shoot for wire tying about every 12".

[mellondome]

To secure your ends.. put 4 sets of double ties within 6 in at the ends.
I only use one tension grip when installing. Secure the far end with doubles... then tie the next 15ft every 8in. Loosely tie the rest of the run once every 20ft . Put the tension grip on the far end... attach it to the winch.. and pull out the expansion. Secure that end the same as the start. Unhook grip and go to the next line.

Go back and spend days tying every 8in.