Sap Storage-Dr. Perkins Question???

[johnpma]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NxjKuUMX1I&feature=youtu.be

Thanks you for the info you posted and great video.

I have a question in regards to the video and sap storage. In the video around 17:20 there is a plastic trash can with an "X" thru it for sap storage. I understand that using a storage container that is molded using PCR as a filler could certainly be a determent to the raw sap but I also realize that there are food grade liners that could be installed into the storage device, and also food grade trash barrels that could be used as a storage device. These storage containers would have the same #2 HDPE symbol as the majority of the syrup containers that many suppliers use today to package their syrup.

Was hoping you could offers some comments regarding sap storage.

Thanks again,

[Wanabe1972]

Snuggle fabric softener and Clorox bleach has a 2 on the bottom but I don't think I'd store syrup in it. I know this cause I'm doing laundry as I read this. I think the numbers on the bottom relate to if they can be recycled or not. Jeff

[johnpma]

Snuggle fabric softener and Clorox bleach has a 2 on the bottom but I don't think I'd store syrup in it. I know this cause I'm doing laundry as I read this. I think the numbers on the bottom relate to if they can be recycled or not. Jeff So then it's whats added into the HDPE that determines "food grade" or not would be my guess......

I bottle in glass not plastic jugs.

[Sugarbush Ridge]

As I understand it,,,,,,,, "food grade" HDPE is virgin plastic. But others that have the HDPE mark ,,, "not food grade" is recycled HDPE that might have had ???? Chemicals, oil or any other 'non food' in then and "could" carry traces of what had been in the containers before.

[CBOYER]

In the video around 17:20 it is clearly mark by them on the container: Re-gring

nearly all non-food grade plastic container contain recycled plastic, caming from real garbage...

[johnpma]

As I understand it,,,,,,,, "food grade" HDPE is virgin plastic. But others that have the HDPE mark ,,, "not food grade" is recycled HDPE that might have had ???? Chemicals, oil or any other 'non food' in then and "could" carry traces of what had been in the containers before.
I have seen where containers are molded in multiple layers using a inner barrier layer where the contents comes in contact inside the container, PCR in a middle layer strictly as a filler, and virgin material on the outside for container color. Also Ketchup bottles are molded this way with multiple layers (maybe not PCR) because of the acidity of the contents in the bottle, the clarity of the container and the bottles ability to prolong shelf life after packaging.

What I guess my question might be is if a "trash can" is food grade and is to be used for sap storage how is this any different than the millions of gallons of syrup that is packaged in food grade containers.

[DrTimPerkins]

Sap storage containers should be composed of either water potable or food-grade materials (and not have been used for storage of other types of chemicals that would render them non-food grade).

A "trash" container is not suitable for sap. It is suitable for trash. It might be ok to use if lined with a food-grade liner (and a trash bag is most likely also not food grade), however one aspect of this is that the public does not see the liner....they only see sap going into a trash container. It can create an unwanted perception.

There are food-grade containers that have the same general appearance (shape, size) as trash containers, but these are generally white or off-white and clearly state they are food-grade. That isn't to mean that all white plastic is food grade.

Syrup containers (plastic jugs) are made from food-grade resin.

[Woodsrover]

Rubbermaid "Brute" containers "meet NSF 2, 21 approval and is USDA Meat and Poultry Group listed, ensuring regulatory compliance for food storage and clean ability". Lowe's has them in 44-gallon size. I'm going to buy a couple for my smaller runs of gravity tubing. I also ordered some food-grade liners from McMaster Carr just for giggles.

[n8hutch]

Rubbermaid "Brute" containers "meet NSF 2, 21 approval and is USDA Meat and Poultry Group listed, ensuring regulatory compliance for food storage and clean ability". Lowe's has them in 44-gallon size. I'm going to buy a couple for my smaller runs of gravity tubing. I also ordered some food-grade liners from McMaster Carr just for giggles.

Why use something that looks like a trash can when you can buy food grade barrels at Bascom's with tight fitting lids 55 gallons for 20.00$ ? I realize it's a drive from Connecticut but it's a much better image to present and it's a cheaper barrel.

Nothing personal but people need to be really careful about the image they put out there, it reflects on all sugar makers. People often fail to assume the best. You know that it's a new clean trash barrel, but can other people determine that from the road.

Just my 2 cents.

[johnpma]

No offense to any members here but I have said that for years about syrup in plastic jugs Syrup has such a beautiful color it's ashame to package it in a plastic jug

[troynh]

Nate,

Bascom's isn't selling the used blue barrels anymore. I tried buying 6 of them a few weeks ago...All they're selling now is the brand new ones for $50.

-Tim

[n8hutch]

No kidding, I was just down there a few weeks ago and I thought there was a whole stack of them against the building. Good deals never last.

[Woodsrover]

Nothing personal but people need to be really careful about the image they put out there, it reflects on all sugar makers....

Just my 2 cents.

No offense and I understand your point. My bigger collection tanks aren't visible from the driveway or sugar shack and neither will these, so it wouldn't matter much in my case. That said, if Joe Public knows anything about an IBC tote they'd be a little suspect about what they originally contained too.

[troynh]

No kidding, I was just down there a few weeks ago and I thought there was a whole stack of them against the building. Good deals never last.

Yeah, those are the new ones.

[n8hutch]

Yeah, those are the new ones.
Thanks for the heads up, I still think that avoiding any thing that looks like a trash can would be a "Best Practice" people got to do what they have too. To each their own.

[johnpma]

Thanks for the heads up, I still think that avoiding any thing that looks like a trash can would be a "Best Practice" people got to do what they have too. To each their own. Funny, we have a nice slope in the yard around the house so I decided I was going to do tubing.........wife shot that down quickly LOL "I don't want that ugly tubing strung up all over the yard" Needless to say we bucket the yard :lol:

Biggest problem I see with storage containers is many are limited to what they have access to in their area. Costs a lot to ship a 55 gallon drum. I do understand upholding the traditional "Syrup Making Standards" I have been told TSC is going to start to stock more supplies for Sugaring which may not be a bad thing for those that have limited access to supplies

[DrTimPerkins]

We used to use trash containers for a study to collect sap for research studies out in the woods (this was about 20 yrs ago)...mainly because they were very cheap. This sap was never intended to be collected, but rather was dumped after the volume was measured. The sap would turn green (the containers were dark green) fairly quickly and smell like plastic. I can't imagine making syrup out of it. We stopped using them fairly quickly simply due to the impression it gave, especially if someone took the lid off and looked inside.

[wishlist]

I have a lot of roadsides/yard trees on tubing and what I use are igloo coolers . They work great being low profile , flat bottom, secure lid, and keep out all those ants ect.....I use up to 160 quart size and just pull up and pump them out. Sap stays cool and clean especially being a white cooler.

They can be found reasonable at Sams and I have also bought some very nice coolers on Craigslist.

[johnpma]

I have a lot of roadsides/yard trees on tubing and what I use are igloo coolers . They work great being low profile , flat bottom, secure lid, and keep out all those ants ect.....I use up to 160 quart size and just pull up and pump them out. Sap stays cool and clean especially being a white cooler.

They can be found reasonable at Sams and I have also bought some very nice coolers on Craigslist. Great idea!!

[johnpma]

For you small operations Tractor Supply is now carrying the white Brute 20 gallon barrels labeled by Rubbermaid "food grade" although it's a trash barrel in the white color it does not look half bad

Hard to pass with a price tag of less than $30

[johnpma]

The Tractor Supply 5 gallon buckets are food grade too......here is the response from TSC

"Yes, the buckets are food grade"

Thanks, again, and have a great day!
Sincerely,
Tractor Supply